How does UConn’s move to the NBE affect us?

[omniorange]

Pardon my ignorance--what is the "checkmate bb-centric move"?

Offer 1-3 Big East schools (not named UConn) membership in the ACC. Again, not the most desirable move by/for the ACC but options are limited as it is on the football side and this move would only be made if a boost needed in the ACCN monies and/or if ACC basketball takes a huge step backwards with the pending retirements of Coach K, Roy Williams, and JB sometime next decade.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

Wouldn’t THAT be awesome?

Yes, it would. As a standard I am using the 2011-2015 Baylor span where they won 10+ four times in five years with 13 game seasons and our own run from 1991 through 1997 where we won 9+ five times in seven years with 12 game seasons (except for 97 which had 13 games that year).

Then there will ultimately be another slide but hopefully it won't last as long or fall so low as we did after the 2001 season.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[longtimefan]

Offer 1-3 Big East schools (not named UConn) membership in the ACC. Again, not the most desirable move by/for the ACC but options are limited as it is on the football side and this move would only be made if a boost needed in the ACCN monies and/or if ACC basketball takes a huge step backwards with the pending retirements of Coach K, Roy Williams, and JB sometime next decade.

Cheers,
Neil

See- that's why you're a board bellwether and I'm mostly a kibitzer. I would not have fast-forwarded to the possible ACC basketball wobble after the retirement of the legends.

I still don't think it would happen for 2 reasons--objections from FSU and, especially, Clemson (and maybe a revitalized Miami); and the example of the Old BE, which was unable to maintain the hybrid.

 

[Briancuse]

I don't think it affects us that much. It will help them at first in recruiting but if they become gtown or DePaul it won't help them much.

 

[sutomcat]

I don't think UConn's status affects Syracuse much. Not at all in football...they go after a different level player than Syracuse does.

In basketball, we do compete with them for recruits on a regular basis, and moving to a better conference should help their program. Will games against Providence, Seton Hall and Xavier get the band wagon UConn fans who have abandoned the program excited again?

They have to win to have a chance. Going to what appears to be a tougher conference is not going to help on that front. Hurley needs to find a way to win a lot in the first couple of years UConn is in the Zombie Big East. If he can do that, they will definitely be an issue recruiting for Syracuse.

If he can't get them in the NCAA tournament and beating good teams during those first couple of years, I don't see their fans standing by the team. One thing is very clear: UConn fans are not loyal and have little interest supporting a team that is struggling.

Regarding omniorange's post, I don't see the ACC adding any basketball only programs to the conference. The only way that would happen is if the ACCN had disastrous carriage in areas where ZBE schools are 'strong'. But I don't think any of the ZBE schools have alumni bases that would make an impact and I think the new exit fee that all ZBE members are going to agree to when UConn joins (it is going to be insanely high) will preclude that.

Even if the ACC wanted to add ZBE schools and they were able to leave, the strong ACC football schools will not let that happen. The only change I could see that might happen before 2036 is adding Texas if the B12 implodes. ND might get added for football too before then but I doubt it.

Can you tell us more about the new paradigm for P5 schools Omni? Is this the thought that the best 64 P5 schools will defect from the NCAA, form their own organization with 4 16 team conferences and take all the money from the other schools?

I think Syracuse is going to make a 64 team cut without much problem. If you get down below 48, there might be an issue. But I don't see the P5 schools cutting down below 64.

 

[omniorange]

See- that's why you're a board bellwether and I'm mostly a kibitzer. I would not have fast-forwarded to the possible ACC basketball wobble after the retirement of the legends.

I still don't think it would happen for 2 reasons--objections from FSU and, especially, Clemson (and maybe a revitalized Miami); and the example of the Old BE, which was unable to maintain the hybrid.

Oh I agree that it is unlikely to happen, just pointing out that if UConn's addition to the BE somehow got (in reality, not hypothetically) that league closer to the way the BE of 2006-2013 was functioning that the ACC has a checkmate bb-centric move of their own if they wanted to exercise that option. Personally I would prefer (and have advocated for) a realistic football add such as WVU as #15 assuming the rule about needing divisions is eliminated. Then the ACC can wait upon ND all it wants though I don't ever see the Irish joining the conference full in my remaining lifetime.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

Regarding omniorange's post, I don't see the ACC adding any basketball only programs to the conference. The only way that would happen is if the ACCN had disastrous carriage in areas where ZBE schools are 'strong'. But I don't think any of the ZBE schools have alumni bases that would make an impact and I think the new exit fee that all ZBE members are going to agree to when UConn joins (it is going to be insanely high) will preclude that.

Even if the ACC wanted to add ZBE schools and they were able to leave, the strong ACC football schools will not let that happen. The only change I could see that might happen before 2036 is adding Texas if the B12 implodes. ND might get added for football too before then but I doubt it.

Like I said above I don't see it actually happening just that the ACC has a bb-centric option that ends the discussion this thread began if they so choose. As for the football schools in the ACC (which I will for purposes of this post classify as FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami and VT) getting solidly behind any of the realistic options for football (which I designate as WVU, UCF, and Cincy) I see as being slim to none. Status quo is far more likely, imho.

As you and most on this board know, the gap between the ACC and the Greater 2 of the P5 is widening and even ACCN $$$ will more likely just get us ahead of the other two of the Lesser 3 in the P5 (on a per schools average) and as a result not make us a destination point for full membership for the only 4 schools that will increase the conference's football profile - ND, Ped State, Texas, or Oklahoma. All the efforts (assuming there are any efforts at all) will likely go into trying to get Texas in a similar deal as the Irish with the ACC. But unlike the Irish who actually had desired opponents outside of FSU, Clemson, and Miami such as Pitt, BC, and GT, the Longhorns will want to bring at least two friends with them from the state of Texas. This was the major stumbling block when the ACC and Texas briefly flirted back in 2011 prior to the ND deal even coming about a year later.

Can you tell us more about the new paradigm for P5 schools Omni? Is this the thought that the best 64 P5 schools will defect from the NCAA, form their own organization with 4 16 team conferences and take all the money from the other schools?

I think Syracuse is going to make a 64 team cut without much problem. If you get down below 48, there might be an issue. But I don't see the P5 schools cutting down below 64.

I wish it truly were only about the separation of P5 from the rest since in that scenario I truly believe SU will be fine as long as it is 64-70 schools or if we get our football act together we have a 35/65 chance of surviving the cut at 48. No, the paradigm that scares me the most is paying (and getting into a bidding war for) the athletes for a private institution that is very cost conscious when it comes to athletics and lacks the alumni donor base for athletics that most of the other 65 P5 schools have. Now the nightmare situation is the possibility of adding to that environment "free" college being implemented for all public schools by the 2030s? I hope I am wrong, but I am not sure we survive the first part of the above scenario well, don't see how we survive the second on top of that as well.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but I call them as I see them.

 

[SBU72]

Fair enough. The real question will be if Hurley is a good enough recruiter or not. But is there a legit cause of concern moving forward? I believe that possibility is greater now then it was before their move. And I'm speaking solely in regards to recruiting, not national relevance. I don't see Nova 2.0, at least not yet.

Hurley will be a non factor. If can recruit to UConn, can he coach? If he can do both, he'll be gone in 3 years to a big 5 conference and they'll be back in that coaching cycle

 

[sutomcat]

Like I said above I don't see it actually happening just that the ACC has a bb-centric option that ends the discussion this thread began if they so choose. As for the football schools in the ACC (which I will for purposes of this post classify as FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami and VT) getting solidly behind any of the realistic options for football (which I designate as WVU, UCF, and Cincy) I see as being slim to none. Status quo is far more likely, imho.

As you and most on this board know, the gap between the ACC and the Greater 2 of the P5 is widening and even ACCN $$$ will more likely just get us ahead of the other two of the Lesser 3 in the P5 (on a per schools average) and as a result not make us a destination point for full membership for the only 4 schools that will increase the conference's football profile - ND, Ped State, Texas, or Oklahoma. All the efforts (assuming there are any efforts at all) will likely go into trying to get Texas in a similar deal as the Irish with the ACC. But unlike the Irish who actually had desired opponents outside of FSU, Clemson, and Miami such as Pitt, BC, and GT, the Longhorns will want to bring at least two friends with them from the state of Texas. This was the major stumbling block when the ACC and Texas briefly flirted back in 2011 prior to the ND deal even coming about a year later.




I wish it truly were only about the separation of P5 from the rest since in that scenario I truly believe SU will be fine as long as it is 64-70 schools or if we get our football act together we have a 35/65 chance of surviving the cut at 48. No, the paradigm that scares me the most is paying (and getting into a bidding war for) the athletes for a private institution that is very cost conscious when it comes to athletics and lacks the alumni donor base for athletics that most of the other 65 P5 schools have. Now the nightmare situation is the possibility of adding to that environment "free" college being implemented for all public schools by the 2030s? I hope I am wrong, but I am not sure we survive the first part of the above scenario well, don't see how we survive the second on top of that as well.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but I call them as I see them.

Could be. I don’t see that scenario happening. Alabama, Ohio State and Michigan might want to switch to a pay-the-athletes model to extend the advantages they have over the small publics and the private schools but there aren’t enough schools to make that model work. I don’t see the have nots agreeing to it. They can’t. They don’t have the money to make it happen.

A lot of people aren’t going to care about football or basketball if only 32 or so schools are left to compete at the highest level. Football is already down to about 70 teams actually having a chance to win. It will be counter productive to whittle the field down much further. With schools like Gonzaga abd Villanova thriving, and the NCAA basketball tournament doing great, I can’t see big changes happening there either.

I hope the government doesn’t decide to run the private universities out of business with new legislation and super subsidies. It will be hard to make that happen with most of the people in power from privates.

But I have great respect for your opinions. I am no expert on education trends or forecasting the future. Sure hope this does not happen. I think it would greatly hurt interest in college sports and probably end it completely.

 

[kirbivore]

Don't get the Nunes hate.

I think certain posters here have personal beef with the writers, so they'll bash it no matter what gets written. As for impact the only one that will kind of impact me is being annoyed that storz gets to play in MSG again for a conference tourney and SU is hopping mostly hopping around the south.

 

[kcsu]

UCONN is irrelevant at this point. The Big East isnt going to save them.

 

[RF2044]

UCONN is irrelevant at this point. The Big East isnt going to save them.

Or not. Either or.

 

[cuseattle]

Their dander is lofty.

 

[orangecuse]

Like I said above I don't see it actually happening just that the ACC has a bb-centric option that ends the discussion this thread began if they so choose. As for the football schools in the ACC (which I will for purposes of this post classify as FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami and VT) getting solidly behind any of the realistic options for football (which I designate as WVU, UCF, and Cincy) I see as being slim to none. Status quo is far more likely, imho.

As you and most on this board know, the gap between the ACC and the Greater 2 of the P5 is widening and even ACCN $$$ will more likely just get us ahead of the other two of the Lesser 3 in the P5 (on a per schools average) and as a result not make us a destination point for full membership for the only 4 schools that will increase the conference's football profile - ND, Ped State, Texas, or Oklahoma. All the efforts (assuming there are any efforts at all) will likely go into trying to get Texas in a similar deal as the Irish with the ACC. But unlike the Irish who actually had desired opponents outside of FSU, Clemson, and Miami such as Pitt, BC, and GT, the Longhorns will want to bring at least two friends with them from the state of Texas. This was the major stumbling block when the ACC and Texas briefly flirted back in 2011 prior to the ND deal even coming about a year later.




I wish it truly were only about the separation of P5 from the rest since in that scenario I truly believe SU will be fine as long as it is 64-70 schools or if we get our football act together we have a 35/65 chance of surviving the cut at 48. No, the paradigm that scares me the most is paying (and getting into a bidding war for) the athletes for a private institution that is very cost conscious when it comes to athletics and lacks the alumni donor base for athletics that most of the other 65 P5 schools have. Now the nightmare situation is the possibility of adding to that environment "free" college being implemented for all public schools by the 2030s? I hope I am wrong, but I am not sure we survive the first part of the above scenario well, don't see how we survive the second on top of that as well.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but I call them as I see them.

Daunting for sure. Who knows what the future holds in this regard, but it's certainly not outside the realm. I don't think anyone a decade back or so could've predicted how exactly conference expansion played out. There too appears to be quite a bit of momentum in today's political climate about making public state schools free, etc., combined with the fact that not many privates today truly compete in football for national championships. If this worse case scenerio for SU ever came to fruition, I wonder if Syracuse would ever consider going public?

 

[tbonezone]

Huskies elevated to the top of the sport in both men's and women's hoops as a northeast school. i'm not a hater. never was. sucks that we both competed for some top recruits but as a program i never wished them ill fortune. they were a great rival.

 

[cuseattle]

Huskies elevated to the top of the sport in both men's and women's hoops as a northeast school. i'm not a hater. never was. sucks that we both competed for some top recruits but as a program i never wished them ill fortune. they were a great rival.

I wished them ill fortune.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't think UConn's status affects Syracuse much. Not at all in football...they go after a different level player than Syracuse does.

In basketball, we do compete with them for recruits on a regular basis, and moving to a better conference should help their program. Will games against Providence, Seton Hall and Xavier get the band wagon UConn fans who have abandoned the program excited again?

They have to win to have a chance. Going to what appears to be a tougher conference is not going to help on that front. Hurley needs to find a way to win a lot in the first couple of years UConn is in the Zombie Big East. If he can do that, they will definitely be an issue recruiting for Syracuse.

If he can't get them in the NCAA tournament and beating good teams during those first couple of years, I don't see their fans standing by the team. One thing is very clear: UConn fans are not loyal and have little interest supporting a team that is struggling.

Regarding omniorange's post, I don't see the ACC adding any basketball only programs to the conference. The only way that would happen is if the ACCN had disastrous carriage in areas where ZBE schools are 'strong'. But I don't think any of the ZBE schools have alumni bases that would make an impact and I think the new exit fee that all ZBE members are going to agree to when UConn joins (it is going to be insanely high) will preclude that.

Even if the ACC wanted to add ZBE schools and they were able to leave, the strong ACC football schools will not let that happen. The only change I could see that might happen before 2036 is adding Texas if the B12 implodes. ND might get added for football too before then but I doubt it.

Can you tell us more about the new paradigm for P5 schools Omni? Is this the thought that the best 64 P5 schools will defect from the NCAA, form their own organization with 4 16 team conferences and take all the money from the other schools?

I think Syracuse is going to make a 64 team cut without much problem. If you get down below 48, there might be an issue. But I don't see the P5 schools cutting down below 64.

The ACC should try to steal Penn State and Maryland right before the next Big 10 TV contracts expire, and by adding those schools, I bet the ACC could get close to Big 10 TV revenue numbers (which would then fall in comparison). Returning to their region could appeal to both those schools, who are far flung now from the rest of the league. They would be back to having true regional rivals, and Penn State would have a chance to be a big dog again. That would be a coup if Swofford could pull it off.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The ACC should try to steal Penn State and Maryland right before the next Big 10 TV contracts expire, and by adding those schools, I bet the ACC could get close to Big 10 TV revenue numbers (which would then fall in comparison). Returning to their region could appeal to both those schools, who are far flung now from the rest of the league. They would be back to having true regional rivals, and Penn State would have a chance to be a big dog again. That would be a coup if Swofford could pull it off.

I don't see those schools jumping at the opportunity to go to the ACC but it would make sense.

 

[Alsacs]

The ACC should try to steal Penn State and Maryland right before the next Big 10 TV contracts expire, and by adding those schools, I bet the ACC could get close to Big 10 TV revenue numbers (which would then fall in comparison). Returning to their region could appeal to both those schools, who are far flung now from the rest of the league. They would be back to having true regional rivals, and Penn State would have a chance to be a big dog again. That would be a coup if Swofford could pull it off.

The Big Ten added Rutgers and Maryland so Penn State would get local tomato cans for them to beat up and give their fans easy trips.
They aren’t leaving the Big Ten now.
Their is a significant portion of their fanbase that hates the Big Ten because it’s Michigan and Ohio State control the league.
They aren’t leaving the Big Ten though if the Big Ten wasn’t proactive they would have been possible to poach.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Helps them in basketball recruiting. I think the spot as #2 team right below Nova is wide open for grabs and they can get to that level pretty easily unlike the AAC where they clearly were just not a top team for whatever reason and were destined to stay bottom/middle of the pack.

Sort of like how #3 in the ACC was ours to lose when we joined and ran off the 25-0 start but conceded it to UVA despite beating them in an Elite 8. And now we're significantly below that and behind the likes of Louisville.

Sad but true. Maybe if we have a good regular season for the first time in 5 years and guys who show up looking servicable as freshmen don't regress badly with our fans filling their heads with NBA talk we can get to where we belong. Part of me hope Guerrier doesn't light it up in November cause I really want a year off of that garbage nonsense look what it did to Jalen last year dude forgot how to play basketball and Oshae and Tyus the 2 years before just left to go undrafted since our fans told them they were lottery picks despite having no shot in any of the recent drafts to get called.

At least the middle rung of the ACC doesn't look too tough VT will be down BC/Pitt going nowhere etc. All we need is one good regular season and I think we will be fine.

 

[omniorange]

Daunting for sure. Who knows what the future holds in this regard, but it's certainly not outside the realm. I don't think anyone a decade back or so could've predicted how exactly conference expansion played out. There too appears to be quite a bit of momentum in today's political climate about making public state schools free, etc., combined with the fact that not many privates today truly compete in football for national championships. If this worse case scenerio for SU ever came to fruition, I wonder if Syracuse would ever consider going public?

Good post. But while I do agree no one knew for sure exactly how BCS/P5 conference expansion would play out in this century, I think there were quite a few that got the general trends, the forces involved in bringing it about, and most of the likely candidates right.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

The ACC should try to steal Penn State and Maryland right before the next Big 10 TV contracts expire, and by adding those schools, I bet the ACC could get close to Big 10 TV revenue numbers (which would then fall in comparison). Returning to their region could appeal to both those schools, who are far flung now from the rest of the league. They would be back to having true regional rivals, and Penn State would have a chance to be a big dog again. That would be a coup if Swofford could pull it off.

Let's assume for a moment all TV contracts go out the window and every conference starts fresh - which conference will get the more favorable TV contracts:

Big Ten as currently constituted - Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, and Maryland -

OR

ACC with - FSU, Clemson, Penn State, Miami, VT, GT, Louisville (?), and Maryland

As much as I dislike it, the obvious answer is the Big Ten - bigger arenas, bigger attendance, more national fans, etc. It would be very hard for either Ped State or the Twerps to leave for less money.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SJUBall]

Seems like a pretty big if though. They haven’t even been winning in the AAC.

Once Calhoun/original BE era recruits were gone, they’ve been a terrible program.

They’re basically hoping to be St. John’s/Seton Hall/Providence at this point. Those schools don’t bother us much, I doubt UConn will either.

Don’t bother you much? St. john’s has been beating Cuse yearly lately. Cuse even dropped the series because of it. Of course UConn fell off after Calhoun. He’s one of the best coaches In the history of Ncaa ball. Once Boeheim is gone, a stalwart for many decades, I think it’s going to be a rude awakening. Only reason Cuse is staying afloat in a league like the ACC that is totally out of region is Boeheim.

 

[OrangeDW]

Don’t bother you much? St. john’s has been beating Cuse yearly lately. Cuse even dropped the series because of it. Of course UConn fell off after Calhoun. He’s one of the best coaches In the history of Ncaa ball. Once Boeheim is gone, a stalwart for many decades, I think it’s going to be a rude awakening. Only reason Cuse is staying afloat in a league like the ACC that is totally out of region is Boeheim.

Oh really? Huh. How about that.

 

[Alsacs]

Don’t bother you much? St. john’s has been beating Cuse yearly lately. Cuse even dropped the series because of it. Of course UConn fell off after Calhoun. He’s one of the best coaches In the history of Ncaa ball. Once Boeheim is gone, a stalwart for many decades, I think it’s going to be a rude awakening. Only reason Cuse is staying afloat in a league like the ACC that is totally out of region is Boeheim.

Congrats you beat us in the meaningless regular season of college basketball 3 times.
The regular season is meaningless in college basketball. The sport is a 1 month sport nationally.

Since we have left the BE, NCAA tournament wins.
Syracuse-8 NCAAT wins, 1 Final Four
St. John’s- 1 NCAAT win, 0 Final Four.

St. John’s is irrelevant for Syracuse fans. The game means nothing the only compelling part of the series is
It gets our alums a game at MSG.
We have been using UConn for the MSG games so no need to play you guys.
Our biggest BE rival is Georgetown we have played them the last 4 years and will play them the next 4 years.
With the ACC/Big Ten challenge and annual holiday tournament there is no need for the St. John’s game for our fanbase.

St. John’s isn’t even the series Syracuse fans would add if we added another Big East team it’s Villanova.

Congrats on adding UConn. Enjoy dealing them.