How many of these guys will make an NBA roster?

[The General]

I dont know if the stats capture this or not, but what other "big" teams are there. ironically i would guess we are one of the biggest in CBB. Debating whether CJ will make the League is one thing, but downplaying his contributions to our team is another. Dude is pound for pound the best rebounder on the team.

Some talking head the other day said that the three tallest teams were UK, UNC and Syracuse. Go figure.

 

[Knicks411]

We are 8th in the country in effective height, which adjusts height for minutes played.

But that probably had just as much to do with our size across the board. No really small guards, all of our forwards are 6-7 or taller, etc.

We are third in average height. Top 3 are UK, UNC, and Cuse.

 

[moqui]

Don't tell me I don't get it, when YOU compared them, head-to-head, statistically! And when did I say anyone sucked?

you don't get it because you point to the minutes differential without crediting all the reasons behind it (one backs up a Wooden Award candidate, the other a token starting rookie). And, someone in this thread wrote that James "sucks;" I thought it was you and if I am wrong I apologize. The statement has been deleted, and I applaud the good judgement of the person who did so.

All you need to do is give it the eye test. Regardless of why he is making more shots from the perimeter, the fact is he has dramatically improved his outside shot from this year to last. You are smart enough to see that.

I always watch the games on DVR, I watch them very carefully, sometimes more than once, and often re-winding sequences over and over to figure out what happened. I am telling you that, whatever the coaches are saying about practices, in actual game play CJ has improved neither his mid range nor his long range jumper. He takes them a bit more often, to be sure, and everyone comments on them when he makes one, but his percentage is unchanged from last year (and nobody mentions his misses).

I am surprised to hear you say Damone Brown is his ceiling. Shocked actually.

Damone Brown was 2nd team All Big East and is one of just 6 players in Boeheim's tenure to amass 300 rebounds in a season. He even made an NBA roster and appeared in a few games in multiple seasons. Most people would consider the comparison pretty high praise. I definitely thought it would indicate just how highly I think of CJ.

On the flip side, I think Dirty's ceiling is vastly higher, but that he is much further away from reaching it. CJ is ahead of him at the moment, and maybe always will be, but that still doesn't make his interior-oriented offensive game well suited to join a front line with Rak and DC2.

 

[The General]

you don't get it because you point to the minutes differential without crediting all the reasons behind it (one backs up a Wooden Award candidate, the other a token starting rookie). And, someone in this thread wrote that James "sucks;" I thought it was you and if I am wrong I apologize. The statement has been deleted, and I applaud the good judgement of the person who did so.

On the flip side, I think Dirty's ceiling is vastly higher, but that he is much further away from reaching it. CJ is ahead of him at the moment, and maybe always will be, but that still doesn't make his interior-oriented offensive game well suited to join a front line with Rak and DC2.

I don't point to the minutes differential. I know why CJ plays more. I get it. All I'm saying is JS's best stats were accrued against weaker competition. CJ is just the opposite. I don't believe that is solely the product of minutes played.

So where do you see CJ next year? Miscast as the back up 4 (again, I mean he weighs 200 lbs)? or as JS's back-up?

 

[Knicks411]

I don't point to the minutes differential. I know why CJ plays more. I get it. All I'm saying is JS's best stats were accrued against weaker competition. CJ is just the opposite. I don't believe that is solely the product of minutes played.

Yeah, I don't think the argument is that CJ is better cause he plays more minutes. But I think it is fair to say both

1) James has put up some awesome numbers, but a lot of it is against lesser competition, and he has contributed less in some of the tougher games. (Could just be the luck of the draw, so to speak, but still warrants mentioning).
2) CJ has played more minutes, so I think his numbers probably have a little less regression in them. (Though i think this is a minor, at best, point).

But I agree with a lot of what Moqui says; I don't have the numbers, I am not sur eanyone does, but everyone does mention whenever CJ makes a jumper how he has added to his game, but I am not sure the % is all that different. He has made twice as many 3's this year as he did last year, though.

 

[moqui]

So where do you see CJ next year? Miscast as the back up 4 (again, I mean he weighs 200 lbs)? or as JS's back-up?

I don't know; all I said was that I wouldn't take it to the bank the he will be the starting 3.

 

[jordoo]

CJ will be the starting 3 the next two seasons IMO and will put up great numbers from that spot.

 

[OttoMets]

But I agree with a lot of what Moqui says; I don't have the numbers, I am not sur eanyone does, but everyone does mention whenever CJ makes a jumper how he has added to his game, but I am not sure the % is all that different. He has made twice as many 3's this year as he did last year, though.

Indeed, the three-point percentage is identical - .333 this year and last. When he misses, people think "nice look" and don't register it as a negative. When he makes, it's "great, C.J.'s got a nice jumper this year" and that theme gets repeated.

I like the line (from Moqui, I think) that Southerland has a higher ceiling but is much further from it than C.J. is from his. Right now, Fair is a decent, undersized 4 with a decent jumper, great IQ, much-improved free-throw shooting, and average (but best of a disappointing crowd) defensive rebounding. Whether he can do more than that remains to be seen.

I'm very interested in seeing how he performs next year at a position that is better suited to him.

 

[Knicks411]

The one thing I will say against is James is that considering his size and leaping ability, he should be a better rebounder than he is.

 

[realorange]

Those numbers are interesting. I just would LOVE for Rak to take over the 4 position. IMO, CJ will be a weakness against bigger teams.

Bigger weakness than Rak? Hardly.

 

[longislandcuse]

Bigger weakness than Rak? Hardly.

I meant I want Rak to earn it. Meaning im hoping he gets better so we dont have to play CJ Fair at power forward all game.

Im biased, I want my 1-3 players to be able to knock down threes and I want my 4 and 5 to be big shot blocking, rebounders. CJ Fair is good, but hes a tweaker 3/4 who is none of that. Before you throw numbers at me, I dont think Fair helps us against UNC or Kentucky. Anthony Davis/John Henson will eat him for lunch.

 

[realorange]

I meant I want Rak to earn it. Meaning im hoping he gets better so we dont have to play CJ Fair at power forward all game.

Im biased, I want my 1-3 players to be able to knock down threes and I want my 4 and 5 to be big shot blocking, rebounders. CJ Fair is good, but hes a tweaker 3/4 who is none of that. Before you throw numbers at me, I dont think Fair helps us against UNC or Kentucky. Anthony Davis/John Henson will eat him for lunch.

I too would like to see Rak make a large jump in being able to handle the 4. I'm not sure that we will see it this year. That's why I'm looking to Fair to get the job done. It's true he is going to get pushed around by the bigger 4's but he makes up for it to a degree with his court sense. His rebounding and scoring is worth mentioning simply because it comes so quietly and efficiently.
I'm in the camp that says CJ will be our starting 3 next year. That's where he belongs and not the 4.

 

[longislandcuse]

I too would like to see Rak make a large jump in being able to handle the 4. I'm not sure that we will see it this year. That's why I'm looking to Fair to get the job done. It's true he is going to get pushed around by the bigger 4's but he makes up for it to a degree with his court sense. His rebounding and scoring is worth mentioning simply because it comes so quietly and efficiently.
I'm in the camp that says CJ will be our starting 3 next year. That's where he belongs and not the 4.

If CJ can develop a respectable 3-ball (maybe he already has) than I love him at the 3.

 

[The General]

I don't know; all I said was that I wouldn't take it to the bank the he will be the starting 3.

And you sparked an interesting discussion. I hadn't even considered CJ wouldnt be our starting 3. You made some good points, so did everyone else.

I'm sure you have an opinion on how he will be utilized if he doesn't start. I'm curious what you think.

And I don't want anyone to think I don't like JS. He's improved all phases. I love when he does something other than hit a 3 (and I'm fond of his 3's as well). I know he can shoot so I'm pulling for the other phases to develop. I'm rooting hard for him, trust me. I guess in the same way, I'm pulling for CJ to be a better shooter. I want them both to have more complete games.

I'm just excited to see what CJ can give us at the 3. I see untapped potential and versatility. Like Moqui said, James does probably have a higher ceiling but CJ is further along. I'm happy to have them both. They are nasty bench players. i hope they both light it up tonight.

 

[The General]

Indeed, the three-point percentage is identical - .333 this year and last. When he misses, people think "nice look" and don't register it as a negative. When he makes, it's "great, C.J.'s got a nice jumper this year" and that theme gets repeated.

It is funny, if you asked most fans if CJ's jumper has improved, most would say yes. Including me. But the numbers seem to refute that. It's clearly something he still needs to work on but I don't know that it prevents him from playing the 3.

I just can't imagine the dude is not gonna get 2 years here at his natural position. He's not a 4. He's a 3 with limited range like Harris. But he's 6'8.

 

[OttoMets]

It is funny, if you asked most fans if CJ's jumper has improved, most would say yes. Including me.

And me too. The mind's been playing tricks, I guess. If memory serves, though, he was 1-3 for the season last year. So several more makes on the same percentage has to feel like an improvement. And he's got a nice stroke (as evidenced by his great improvement at the line).

 

[Daleman]

its Melo.

maybe waiters.

and thats it.

although, mcw could if he gets bigger and gets a hell of lot better.

Haha maybe waiters?? He's a probable first round pick this year. Kris Joseph is probably going to go first round this year too and if not first then definitely in the top 40 which almost guarantees him a roster spot. Christmas is also a projected first round pick for the next coming drafts. Don't underrate these kids.

 

[Daleman]

You aren't watching the same NBA I am. Melo is the only lock, next guys with the greatest potential are XMas and MCW because their young. Dion is a 30 year old sophomore with a questionable jump shot. Dion is a CBA All star, doesn't mean he isn't a great college player

Dion=1st rd pick.

 

[Daleman]

Scottie Reynolds was one of Nova's best ever and he didn't even get a look. The college game doesn't translate to the NBA sometimes, especially if you are a guard that can't shoot. And don't use Rondo as an example because he is one of the best pure passers of the last 20 years.

Reynolds was a 6 foot shooting guard who didn't play good defense. Those usually don't work in the NBA.