how many years do we have to pretend

[JeremyCuse]

So what? It's such dumb rationalization to justify piss poor decision making.

JB DID scorch the earth on the way out -- right after he lost his last game, in the first round of the ACC tournament. Remember when in the post game presser, when he declared that he wouldn't be forced into retirement -- that he and he alone would make the choice about when he stepped down?

The next day, he was relieved of duty.

The band aid had to be ripped off. When it finally was, Wildhack was free to move forward. He chose the path of least resistance.

People can argue that this approach was easiest, or the one that would appease the most members of the fanbase -- but let's dispense with "couldn't" talk. Total BS.

JB making an off hand remark in a PC isn't going scorched earth. He didn't want to retire and SU promoted Red to avoid a complete cluster when he was essentially forced out. Clearly Red isn't working and SU should move on after the season but JB had built up an unbelievable amount of cache, Wildhack was in an in impossible spot and moved off on him as soon as it was viable. If you think Wildhack had the ability to fire JB and do a national search at the same time your not being honest with what the dynamics of SU athletics was at that time

 

[RF2044]

JB making an off hand remark in a PC isn't going scorched earth. He didn't want to retire and SU promoted Red to avoid a complete cluster when he was essentially forced out. Clearly Red isn't working and SU should move on after the season but JB had built up an unbelievable amount of cache, Wildhack was in an in impossible spot and moved off on him as soon as it was viable. If you think Wildhack had the ability to fire JB and do a national search at the same time your not being honest with what the dynamics of SU athletics was at that time

If you don't think wildhack fired jb, but allowed him to save face by moving into administrative position, I don't know what to tell you.

We both agree that JB held the program hostage, and handcuffed the athletic department to the great extent that he could, until the athletic department didn't want to put up with it anymore. It was a difficult situation for all involved, because JB was a coaching legend, who would want a national championship, and who had led the program to unprecedented heights, but his performance had dropped off significantly, he was embarrassing the university both in terms of performance and in terms of his personal conduct in the media, and it was time for him to go.

The notion that he forced the administration into anything at that point I think is bunk. They allowed him to hang on, and it became more uncomfortable for everyone involved until they finally couldn't put up with it any longer, and they pushed him out.

The problem is that they allowed him to hang on TOO long, without his performance warranting that latitude.

 

[DilemaCuse]

100%, everyone complaining that a national search wasn't done doesn't realize JB was gonna go scorched earth on the way out if SU didn't hire red. It's been mentioned a dozen + times now, SU didn't do a national search because they couldn't.

Let him, he would look like bitter old man like DC on Instagram or Bob Knight. You can't let 1 man restrict the potential and future like that.
Tim Jurich at Louisville fired Denny Crum.
Who did he hire? Rick Pitino
Nick Saban retires last Jan, no discussion of promoting within, well except an internal Tommy Rees hire was doomsday scenario but point being, if Nick Saban isn't dictating, why do we allow a bball coach who over stayed his welcome to dictate that, I don't get why basketball coaches think they can play AD. Greg Burn was trying to find the best coach to replace Nick, not the coach Nick preferred.

 

[two3zone]

If the only reason to keep red it to keep Melo happy, then why don’t they put melo on a search committee for a new coach?

I was going to say thus but it would be in extreme poor taste.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Look what happened once they moved on from Dino

Be careful what you wish for

That saying annoyed Brent Axe. Well, we had to bite the bullet and face reality, we couldn't continue to hold onto Jim into his 80s or 90s and celebrate 10th place in the ACC

 

[JeremyCuse]

Let him, he would look like bitter old man like DC on Instagram or Bob Knight. You can't let 1 man restrict the potential and future like that.
Tim Jurich at Louisville fired Denny Crum.
Who did he hire? Rick Pitino
Nick Saban retires last Jan, no discussion of promoting within, well except an internal Tommy Rees hire was doomsday scenario but point being, if Nick Saban isn't dictating, why do we allow a bball coach who over stayed his welcome to dictate that, I don't get why basketball coaches think they can play AD. Greg Burn was trying to find the best coach to replace Nick, not the coach Nick preferred.

Saban and JB are two totally different situations and not remotely similar. Saban chose to retire and Bama was still a top 10 program. The dynamics couldn't have been more different

 

[DilemaCuse]

Saban and JB are two totally different situations and not remotely similar. Saban chose to retire and Bama was still a top 10 program. The dynamics couldn't have been more different

Exactly you could argue the Top 10 program could promote internally and thats for sure not SU bball.

Looks like things are backwards, huh?

 

[DilemaCuse]

Saban and JB are two totally different situations and not remotely similar. Saban chose to retire and Bama was still a top 10 program. The dynamics couldn't have been more different

And yes Saban did choose to retire, more reason they shouldn't have looked to appease JB with the replacement. Like I said, let him be the bitter old man about it, the media already had open season on him both nationally and locally.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If you don't think wildhack fired jb, but allowed him to save face by moving into administrative position, I don't know what to tell you.

We both agree that JB held the program hostage, and handcuffed the athletic department to the great extent that he could, until the athletic department didn't want to put up with it anymore. It was a difficult situation for all involved, because JB was a coaching legend, who would want a national championship, and who had led the program to unprecedented heights, but his performance had dropped off significantly, he was embarrassing the university both in terms of performance and in terms of his personal conduct in the media, and it was time for him to go.

The notion that he forced the administration into anything at that point I think is bunk. They allowed him to hang on, and it became more uncomfortable for everyone involved until they finally couldn't put up with it any longer, and they pushed him out.

The problem is that they allowed him to hang on TOO long, without his performance warranting that latitude.

Your echoing what I've been saying. Su absolutely gave JB a position to smooth things over, 100%. The issue was that JB still had many loyalists within the BOT and within SU, the decision to move on wasn't close to unanimous and was highly contentious. Hiring Red was the only way to make moving on a reality

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Because Melo wants his son to be on a good team and has money for NIL.

That would be nice but has he expressed intent to pay into NIL?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Exactly you could argue the Top 10 program could promote internally and thats for sure not SU bball.

Looks like things are backwards, huh?

Your comparing apples and bowling balls. Saban left on his own and Bama was still a top 5 program. There's a reason things got messy with Joe Pa and Bowden and other guys who didn't want to move on

 

[two3zone]

That would be nice but has he expressed intent to pay into NIL?

"Let me pay you so you can get my son the ball and get his shots up"

 

[tptcuse]

That would be nice but has he expressed intent to pay into NIL?

According to some people here, he has.

 

[two3zone]

According to some people here, he has.

Would be weird fielding a call from Melo asking for money for his kids team in a year after this disaster. I'd tell him if he believes in this mess than use his own money.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

According to some people here, he has.

Thank you.

 

[MSOrange]

Your echoing what I've been saying. Su absolutely gave JB a position to smooth things over, 100%. The issue was that JB still had many loyalists within the BOT and within SU, the decision to move on wasn't close to unanimous and was highly contentious. Hiring Red was the only way to make moving on a reality

I don’t know what else you need to do to spell it out that JB still had many influential friends even at the end and his ACC tourney press conference was hardly as ugly as it could get. Heck we’ve seen on this very board how far some will go to have his back and there are still a handful that seem in denial that things were even trending down in the last several years of his tenure.

 

[elimunelson]

I get it. I just don’t see any way that we move on from Autry when Carmelo is sending his kid to play for him.

We need C$rm$lo.

His kid is going to be here for a year and I’m guessing He will be 10% as good as Melo. Being hijacked by money is going to dip us further into irrelevancy.

Marquette is a BETTER program than SU . Can someone get me their Nil Numbers?

I do think at some point the program lost its identity leaving the big east and boeheim leaving. Both hurt us so much. UConn fixed both problems

 

[Newhouser]

Your echoing what I've been saying. Su absolutely gave JB a position to smooth things over, 100%. The issue was that JB still had many loyalists within the BOT and within SU, the decision to move on wasn't close to unanimous and was highly contentious. Hiring Red was the only way to make moving on a reality

There was a lot going on around the school at the time too. Red earned a 3 year contract and the school had some optics issues which would have made passing him over difficult. Not a hard choice.

 

[OrangePA]

His kid is going to be here for a year and I’m guessing He will be 10% as good as Melo. Being hijacked by money is going to dip us further into irrelevancy.

Marquette is a BETTER program than SU . Can someone get me their Nil Numbers?

I do think at some point the program lost its identity leaving the big east and boeheim leaving. Both hurt us so much. UConn fixed both problems

UConn was stuck in the basketball hinterlands - the AAC.

 

[Cusefan0307]

His kid is going to be here for a year and I’m guessing He will be 10% as good as Melo. Being hijacked by money is going to dip us further into irrelevancy.

Marquette is a BETTER program than SU . Can someone get me their Nil Numbers?

I do think at some point the program lost its identity leaving the big east and boeheim leaving. Both hurt us so much. UConn fixed both problems

No he won’t carry us, but he’s not Bronny James. He’s a legit good player like Elijah Moore and Donnie Freeman. It’s not hard to follow his HS career. Stop with the BE garbage. Pitt is ranked 18th and gone 26-14 in the ACC the past two years.

 

[OrangeFoo]

This thread is outstanding! We are a car rental tracker/private jet tracker post away from the Dan Mullen thread last year. Congrats all!

My 2c ( sorry for the plagiarism kcsu)
- Given how much money a 20k average attendance would pull in, it seems idiotic that SU admins would not be invested in getting hoops right. Too much money on the line.
- This is Dino all over again. The main difference is Dino had a hc track record and was a good hire at the time. But he exposed himself as in over his head once his qb he lucked into graduated. We took the chance on Red without evidence and it seems like he has exposed himself.
- I don’t know what people expect, but much like Dino I expect Red to get to the final year of his contract because the program won’t want to buy him out and hire another top coach. I expect 2 more years of Red after this even if the bottom falls out. Remember… the bottom did fall out for Dino and he got two years after that because of his but out.
- There is no way Red has a negative performance clause in his contract… I’m sure he gets a bonus for hitting certain milestones and he could get fired for personal conduct or team/player conduct, but no one in their right mind signs a contract that would let them get fired based on wins. There would need to be a negotiated buyout.
- What I would expect to see is Red encouraged to hire a really good coach from outside the program. The AD did this with football with the UVA guys. Then Red will get two more years to prove it and then they will either extend him or fire him going into the last year.

From a playing standpoint I think Red was moving on from Carlos but JJ getting hurt stopped that. My biggest concern outside of all the program issues is the lack of any defining system either in offense or defense. That only works if you have much more talent than the other team. To beat the dead horse… it really does look like Red just rolls the ball out.

 

[jdubs30]

His kid is going to be here for a year and I’m guessing He will be 10% as good as Melo. Being hijacked by money is going to dip us further into irrelevancy.

Marquette is a BETTER program than SU . Can someone get me their Nil Numbers?

I do think at some point the program lost its identity leaving the big east and boeheim leaving. Both hurt us so much. UConn fixed both problems

FYI in regards to Marquette -

To wit, Marquette is the only power conference program that has not brought in a Division I transfer in any of the past three seasons. In 2024, Marquette was one of two power conference programs not to accept a transfer. (Purdue was the other.)

Shaka is a fantastic coach

 

[OttoMets]

...

I don't know what role the assistants have, but if they're doing anything I couldn't tell.

For years I mocked the coaches whose staffs huddled up apart from the players at the beginning of timeouts.

Now Syracuse has that coaching staff.

Probably discussing the nightly specials at Elephant and Dove.

 

[two3zone]

For years I mocked the coaches whose staffs huddled up apart from the players at the beginning of timeouts.

I would expect assistants to work like Gary from VEEP in game. Give me the tidbits I need and I'll make the decisions.

 

[jr4750]

Thought this was interesting given this conversation. Not SU related but tangential.