How much did leaving the Big East really hurt the program?

[billsin01]

Mike DeCourcy is a clown - I agree that MSG/Big East were a big deal, but the idea Syracuse can never reach the level they were at ten years ago is just stupid.

If we were still in the Big East with a 78 year old coach, we’d be in about the same position we are now, with about the same potential to get back to a regularly top 10 program making Final Fours.

I didn’t see exactly what he said but to think the Cuse brand will ever be what it was would require drastic realignment of power in college sports. Not to mention the fact that college sports itself is a mess. I’d say our chances of reaching anything close to what we were is exceedingly slim. Not zero, but not anywhere close to probable.

 

[Cusefan95]

Yup. We left for enough money to be at the bottom of the list for P5 football schools. Rejoined our hoops identity in the progress, which I said would happen at the time. I guess if you’re committed to trying to be relevant in football then we had to do it. But it sucked then and looks even worse now.

It was literally the only decision to make, and looking back on it I feel exactly the same way. It certainly isn’t a decision that “looks even worse now” - thats absurd.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t see it as a question of making the wrong decision. We were stuck at least if we were committed to football. But I don’t think there’s any question that even a watered down big east with some of the traditional programs struggling was a better fit for hoops than playing a bunch of schools we have no history with and BC/Pitt/Miami/Va Tech. Just a brutal hit to the hoops brand. Unavoidable perhaps but disastrous.

If we maintained our level of play, we’d already have history with Duke, Virginia, and UNC and probably care a lot less about the past. Year 1 in the ACC was a lot of fun, as hard as it is to remember now. Pretty sure we averaged 26K a game that year at the Dome, we’re ranked number 1 for a long time, had the 2 epic games with Duke, easily handled UNC. We were basically the center of college hoops for most of that year.

 

[two3zone]

We were probably more suited for the BIG than the ACC.

 

[OrangeDW]

I didn’t see exactly what he said but to think the Cuse brand will ever be what it was would require drastic realignment of power in college sports. Not to mention the fact that college sports itself is a mess. I’d say our chances of reaching anything close to what we were is exceedingly slim. Not zero, but not anywhere close to probable.

In a world where Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Virginia, and Villanova have been some of the best programs in the country….I don’t agree.

 

[Cusefan95]

I didn’t see exactly what he said but to think the Cuse brand will ever be what it was would require drastic realignment of power in college sports. Not to mention the fact that college sports itself is a mess. I’d say our chances of reaching anything close to what we were is exceedingly slim. Not zero, but not anywhere close to probable.

Would our chances be any better if we were still in the Big East?

If you are capable of honestly assessing, the answer is unequivocally “no”.

 

[billsin01]

It was literally the only decision to make, and looking back on it I feel exactly the same way. It certainly isn’t a decision that “looks even worse now” - thats absurd.

It absolutely looks even worse now. The ACC is a really bad hoops conference in addition to being a meh football conference. The SEC and Big 10 are basically going to be all there is. there is zero question the result is even worse than the biggest critic would have guessed. Only choice? I guess. But anyone who thought it was great for Cuse football/hoops was sorely mistaken.

 

[Wrinkle]

None of it matters, now. We need to get ourselves into the Big 10, at all costs

 

[Cusefan95]

In a world where Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Virginia, and Villanova have been some of the best programs in the country….I don’t agree.

I honestly think there is a segment of the fan base (like billsin01) who miss the old Big East (which no longer exists) so much, that if Syracuse actually reaches a sustainably high level again in basketball - it will disappoint them because they won’t be able to trash the move to the ACC anymore.

 

[djcon57]

It absolutely looks even worse now. The ACC is a really bad hoops conference in addition to being a meh football conference. The SEC and Big 10 are basically going to be all there is. there is zero question the result is even worse than the biggest critic would have guessed. Only choice? I guess. But anyone who thought it was great for Cuse football/hoops was sorely mistaken.

You watch UConn football this year? That would be us.

I'm not saying the program is in amazing shape by any means, but we played Clemson in a massive national game. That doesnt happen in the AAC or whatever

The hoops program can and will get back to at least "being in the tourney" levels.

There was no other choice.

 

[Cusefan95]

It absolutely looks even worse now. The ACC is a really bad hoops conference in addition to being a meh football conference. The SEC and Big 10 are basically going to be all there is. there is zero question the result is even worse than the biggest critic would have guessed. Only choice? I guess. But anyone who thought it was great for Cuse football/hoops was sorely mistaken.

Where would we be if we were in the Big East right now?

Football would be UConn-dead (and that would eliminate ANY possibility of survival of high level sports at Syracuse long term since alignment with Big Ten or SEC is probably going to be required, and can’t do that without football), basketball would be in the toilet just like it was now with a 78 year old coach getting gracelessly pushed out the door. That’s demonstrably better to you?

 

[Scotch]

I honestly think there is a segment of the fan base (like billsin01) who miss the old Big East (which no longer exists) so much, that if Syracuse actually reaches a sustainably high level again in basketball - it will disappoint them because they won’t be able to trash the move to the ACC anymore.

The old Big East doesn’t exist anymore. There is nothing about playing Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova and GTown that would have maintained our status. Blaming the ACC is asinine and we should stop pining for a history that no longer exists.

 

[billsin01]

If we maintained our level of play, we’d already have history with Duke, Virginia, and UNC and probably care a lot less about the past. Year 1 in the ACC was a lot of fun, as hard as it is to remember now. Pretty sure we averaged 26K a game that year at the Dome, we’re ranked number 1 for a long time, had the 2 epic games with Duke, easily handled UNC. We were basically the center of college hoops for most of that year.

But that’s you and me and the rest of Cuse fans talking about that. Duke likely barely remembers and nationally, no one cares. That’s the bigger issue. Cuse/Villanova may have only mattered regionally by the end but at least within the region it mattered.

 

[OrangeDW]

But that’s you and me and the rest of Cuse fans talking about that. Duke likely barely remembers and nationally, no one cares. That’s the bigger issue. Cuse/Villanova may have only mattered regionally by the end but at least within the region it mattered.

If we repeated that season a bunch more times, they’d all remember and care. It’s on us.

Virginia was in their first really good year at the time, if I recall. They’ve maintained it so everyone knows them as a power.

 

[NKR1978]

0%.

 

[TheCusian]

This is a weird thing to have bubble up. It was the only move. UConn being more relevant in hoops is outweighed by their absolute dumpster fire in football.

We have all the bones to rebuild in hoops. Our recent football history is better than whatever it would be outside of a B1G invite.

 

[JimBoston]

Nothing beats MSG in March and I enjoyed many BETs. Long term, Syracuse basketball will be fine with great tradition, large fan support, great facilities,..., but the team will probably have a bumpy transition as it is hard to be the coach that follows a legend. The portal will clearly help with the transition.

A big issue right now is the ACC is going through a turnover of successful coaches and the league is down. Think about this, the top 4 basketball schools, Duke, UNC, Louisville, and Syracuse are down and they all hired unproven coaches. Why would they hire unproven coaches?

My biggest problem with ACC basketball is who are Syracuse's rivals? BC? Pitt? There really isn't one.

Long term (maybe even sooner), there probably is another conference transition coming and I'm not sure what that means for Syracuse.

 

[SU91]

I think the question is, “did leaving the Big East hurt basketball?” The answer is undoubtedly “yes”, along with many other contributing factors.

Did we have to leave the Big East? The answer is undoubtedly “yes” for many reasons.

Two things can be true. We pine for the BE because “those were the days”. Can we be relevant again in the ACC? Remains to be seen.

I, myself, as a serious fan, am very hopeful. However, if I’m honest, I don’t think the future bodes well, for various reasons. I hope that is not the case.

 

[CuseCPT]

I think staying in the Big East, assuming it was possible (which it wasn't), would've masked our decline a little bit and might have dragged it out even longer.

 

[HurleyForHeisman]

No one's a bigger fan or has fonder memories of the original Big East than me. But Syracuse moving to the ACC was a great move for the program. The 2014 win over Duke at the Dome was one of the greatest regular season games in SU history. SU had an extended run as the #1 ranked team in the country that season.

It was the 2015 NCAA sanctions, including vacating over 100 of Boeheim's wins, that damaged the program to a point that it could never really recover. Those sanctions would have damaged Syracuse just as much had they remained in the Big East. The notion that Syracuse lost something by moving to the ACC is hogwash.

 

[Otto'd]

I think the question is, “did leaving the Big East hurt basketball?” The answer is undoubtedly “yes”, along with many other contributing factors.

Did we have to leave the Big East? The answer is undoubtedly “yes” for many reasons.

Two things can be true. We pine for the BE because “those were the days”. Can we be relevant again in the ACC? Remains to be seen.

I, myself, as a serious fan, am very hopeful. However, if I’m honest, I don’t think the future bodes well, for various reasons. I hope that is not the case.

Excellent post. Exactly how it is. We had to go, but it sucks and it DID hurt our hoops program It really sucks for me because I’m a hoops fanatic , I never really liked college football and I hate it even more now because what it has done to the landscape of college sports over the last decade.

Also I don’t like the ACC. Reason number 1024:

 

[longtimefan]

In a world where Houston, Baylor, Gonzaga, Virginia, and Villanova have been some of the best programs in the country….I don’t agree.

With the possible exception of Baylor, the success of these programs can be directly connected to a single head coach. When that coach exits, the immediate future of those programs may be in jeopardy (see Villanova this season).

Which should make our fanbase a bit apprehensive.

 

[FllCrtPrss]

Hurt basketball, but football would be dead. We clearly still draw for football (see NC State). You want a school with athletics? You need both programs to be in existence.

I still don't know why people act like the Big East had no good football schools.

West Virginia had already won 3 BCS bowl games, Louisville won 1 (and a 2nd one right after we left). TCU was coming in and they were a powerhouse (and are again). Pitt was usually solid. Boise State would've been added and they were a powerhouse. Houston would've most likely been added and they're damn good. Memphis probably would've been too. UCF would've been too.

I wish they Big didn't have 8 BB only schools. Adding Houston, Memphis and TCU, UCF as full time members would've added good members in both sports in big markets. And Boise State football only. Would've been one hell of a conference and where it felt more home to Syracuse.

 

[OrangeDW]

Excellent post. Exactly how it is. We had to go, but it sucks and it DID hurt our hoops program It really sucks for me because I’m a hoops fanatic , I never really liked college football and I hate it even more now because what it has done to the landscape of college sports over the last decade.

Also I don’t like the ACC. Reason number 1024:

They hate “Yankees” there.

Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham are a different world, and normal.

Greensboro is “south” south.

 

[nccusefan]

Probation hurt, the Bernie Fine situation hurt, Jim Boeheim‘s age and uncertainty hurt the program. The move to the ACC gives coach Autry the chance to make Cuse basketball relevant again. I realize the northeast has a lot of talented basketball players but what channel is the Big East even on? I’d rather be challenged and compete in the most prestigious league than be a regional powerhouse in an economically challenged league.