How the tide has turned.

[GoSU96]

Early 2013

Football team coming off of best season in over a decade. Management screwed up the coaching situation but what the hell, Marrone was a jerk and Shafer is a true "college coach". We are going to lock the doors and kick ass.

Basketball goes to the final four. Disappointing performance vs Michigan, but all in all a great year.

Lax - makes it to the championship game, jumps out to an early lead but can't compete on face offs. 16-4 is still an excellent year.

HEY!! We're going to the ACC!!!

Two years later, Yeesh.

The pride of the Orange Nation rests on the shoulder of Ben Williams, Randy Staats knee, T Hunts leg, and Chris McCullough's knee, oops, scratch that, Kaleb Joseph's diminutive frame and Trevor Cooney's dead-eye accuracy, and the tender mercies of the NCAA.

Rough seas for the new AD.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

 

[GoSU96]

View attachment 39691

It sure ain't Rainbows and Ponies.

Anything there that wasn't accurate?

 

[Full_Rebar]

That big tv check from the ACC every year is the next AD's Dramamine.

Rough seas would be sitting outside the P5 and hoping you get in before they break away and relegate you to toil in eternity in the Tier II.

Let's keep some perspective

 

[TheCusian]

Early 2013 Football team coming off of best season in over a decade. Management screwed up the coaching situation but what the hell, Marrone was a jerk and Shafer is a true "college coach". We are going to lock the doors and kick ass. Basketball goes to the final four. Disappointing performance vs Michigan, but all in all a great year. Lax - makes it to the championship game, jumps out to an early lead but can't compete on face offs. 16-4 is still an excellent year. HEY!! We're going to the ACC!!! Two years later, Yeesh. The pride of the Orange Nation rests on the shoulder of Ben Williams, Randy Staats knee, T Hunts leg, and Chris McCullough's knee, oops, scratch that, Kaleb Joseph's diminutive frame and Trevor Cooney's dead-eye accuracy, and the tender mercy's of the NCAA. Rough sea's for the new AD.

All true. But I'd argue that the underlying foundation is unchanged and poised to get better.

New Chancellor seems like a huge upgrade.
Gross did some good things - but his loose purse strings, lack of attention to detail, and floundering football results - all are gone. I have faith that the next AD will be better.
ACC money and affiliation is still great - payoff to old BE is further along.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

It sure ain't Rainbows and Ponies.

Oh for sure no.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

That big tv check from the ACC every year is the next AD's Dramamine.

Rough seas would be sitting outside the P5 and hoping you get in before they break away and relegate you to toil in eternity in the Tier II.

Let's keep some perspective

Think, Husky Pain

 

[GoSU96]

That big tv check from the ACC every year is the next AD's Dramamine.

Rough seas would be sitting outside the P5 and hoping you get in before they break away and relegate you to toil in eternity in the Tier II.

Let's keep some perspective

That's the Titanic.

And I'm referencing the high level of year to year performance that have experienced and seen from the three programs, not also ran P5 that goes crazy when one of their programs does well.

 

[xc84]

It sure ain't Rainbows and Ponies.

Anything there that wasn't accurate?

You compared Marrone's 4th year to Shafers' second. Shafer had a better 1st year than Marrone. Doesn't that make him better? Of course not. Can't compare until they have equal tenures.

 

[rrlbees]

Anything there that wasn't accurate?

Yes. Management screwing up the football coaching.

 

[GoSU96]

You compared Marrone's 4th year to Shafers' second. Shafer had a better 1st year than Marrone. Doesn't that make him better? Of course not. Can't compare until they have equal tenures.

Shafer had a worse year than Marrone ever had, and he was picking up from 10 wins in four years prior, not 8 wins in the year prior.

You want to compare year two?

Here's the point, Gross and the PTB 'ed up with Marrone. They had a guy that was getting the job done and instead of working around his maintenance issues they failed to meet their commitments and pissed him off enough that he walked.

 

[GoSU96]

Yes. Management screwing up the football coaching.

They screwed that up big time. Was he going to leave at some point, sure, but year four? That was because he wanted out, not necessarily up.

Other than not wanting to agree with that point, you agree then?

 

[dasher]

Shafer had a worse year than Marrone ever had, and he was picking up from 10 wins in four years prior, not 8 wins in the year prior.

You want to compare year two?

Here's the point, Gross and the PTB 'ed up with Marrone. They had a guy that was getting the job done and instead of working around his maintenance issues they failed to meet their commitments and pissed him off enough that he walked.

yep.. Everyone's fault but marrone's. And damn, the same thing happened in Buffalo. What are the odds? And now he is what?

 

[GoSU96]

yep.. Everyone's fault but marrone's. And damn, the same thing happened in Buffalo. What are the odds? And now he is what?

Did you even read the post?

Warts and all Marrone was getting the job done. The guy had snakes in his head and is high maintenance, never claimed he wasn't, but so what? Most places try to figure out a way to make a high maintenance guy who is getting the job done happy.

Kinda funny how you and Bees want to fixate on a single point in the whole post. Just setting the context for what a disaster the last two years have been.

 

[OrangePA]

Yes. Management screwing up the football coaching.

Management should have and could have kept Marrone in my opinion.

 

[xc84]

Shafer had a worse year than Marrone ever had, and he was picking up from 10 wins in four years prior, not 8 wins in the year prior.

You want to compare year two?

Here's the point, Gross and the PTB 'ed up with Marrone. They had a guy that was getting the job done and instead of working around his maintenance issues they failed to meet their commitments and pissed him off enough that he walked.

Hey, I liked Marrone. I'm just saying you can't judge Marrone's 4 years v. Shafer's 2 and say it has meaning. I can like Marrone without having to tear down Shafer. Shafer's year 1 was better than Marrone's. Maybe Shafer's year 3 will be better than Marrone's which won't be saying much or maybe Shafer's year 4 will be better than Marrone's. We'll see. In either case, I liked Marrone.

 

[Upstate]

The sun came up the moment McDonald saw the door, and Hunt's leg was fused back together -- at least on the football side

 

[GoSU96]

Management should have and could have kept Marrone in my opinion.

This is speculation on my part, but I believe that Gross was pissed that Marrone was forced on him when he couldn't close on a replacement for the 'Bees boy's horrible tenure and the relationship was bad from the get go.

 

[Chip]

Love it. I'm unhappy so I'm going to go to the NFL now.

I was going to go later but instead I'll just go now.

He's an OL coach today.

Looks like the Marrone fans still haven't received the message that the league so loudly delivered Marrone a few months ago.

And yes, I wish he was still coaching here. But that's apples and potatoes.

 

[GoSU96]

Love it. I'm unhappy so I'm going to go to the NFL now.

I was going to go later but instead I'll just go now.

He's an OL coach today.

Looks like the Marrone fans still haven't received the message that the league so loudly delivered Marrone a few months ago.

And yes, I wish he was still coaching here. But that's apples and potatoes.

How is any of that even relevant?

Get this through your head, he was listening because from his perspective the work environment was horrible. The dream job was anything but.

He wasn't on a path to bolt out the door at the first opportunity.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We've got the IPF. Still have the Melo Center and Dome. Olympic sports are arguably as good as they've ever been. ACC checks coming in.

 

[GoSU96]

We've got the IPF. Still have the Melo Center and Dome. Olympic sports are arguably as good as they've ever been. ACC checks coming in.

All good points.

Which is a reason why Shafer is on the shortest of leashes in my opinion.

New guy will have zero invested in the guy, and neither does the Chancellor.

He needs to pull a Desko and leave them no choice, otherwise, he gone.

The ONLY reason the Robinson stayed for four, to the detriment of the program, was that he was TGD's and Nancy's first big hire, they couldn't can him "until he was given time", which in his case was abuse the corspe and burn the ashes twice.

Pretty remarkable track record by Gross, for the three major mens teams program he is responsible for 0% of successful hires in ten years on the job.

 

[djorange1989]

I liked Marrone a lot, in most aspects, so I am not bashing him. But, he left SU mainly for the same reason he left Buffalo: he is too damn thin skinned. He didn't like the way fans and media treated him. In either place. Such is life as a head coach

 

[Chip]

How is any of that even relevant?

Get this through your head, he was listening because from his perspective the work environment was horrible. The dream job was anything but.

He wasn't on a path to bolt out the door at the first opportunity.

The work environment is horrible everywhere he goes. Just don't know how someone can keep having such bad luck. Maybe the state of NY is the problem.

I think he was on a path to bolt to the NFL as soon as he could. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think that makes him a normal, aspiring football coach. The 'dream job' stuff is just an easy target for those of us who wanted him to stay.

 

[OrangePA]

Love it. I'm unhappy so I'm going to go to the NFL now.

I was going to go later but instead I'll just go now.

He's an OL coach today.

Looks like the Marrone fans still haven't received the message that the league so loudly delivered Marrone a few months ago.

And yes, I wish he was still coaching here. But that's apples and potatoes.

Not being flippant.

The message being, what?

"You're a good coach, but we don't like guys who leave while still under contract?"

Do I think Marrone handled the Buffalo situation correctly?

No.

Do I think he tried to apply the Parcells/Belichick notion that you never coach for an owner who didn't hire you?

Yes.

Do I think that he received bad intel from his agent?

Yes.

Do I think that Casullo hurt him?

I think to an extent, yes.

If by some weird astro-physics anomaly I were to be named SU AD, would I hire him back as the SU HC?

I would.