How to Use 105 Scholarships

[javadoc]

Increasing from 85 to 105, would you increase each position proportionately? What would be your strategy?

I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd look at the 85 breakdown and see where extra bodies might make a significant difference. I see one spot that seems like a good candidate, DL. So you can rotate guys. Not the same for OL, you just need good backups, but you're not looking to rotate bodies frequently. Maybe DB? I'd keep the WR count about the same, RB, etc. I just don't see 20 extra bodies on the roster being all that important. And given the marginal cost of getting there, is it worth it?

 

[Ttk.gman2]

Increasing from 85 to 105, would you increase each position proportionately? What would be your strategy?

I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd look at the 85 breakdown and see where extra bodies might make a significant difference. I see one spot that seems like a good candidate, DL. So you can rotate guys. Not the same for OL, you just need good backups, but you're not looking to rotate bodies frequently. Maybe DB? I'd keep the WR count about the same, RB, etc. I just don't see 20 extra bodies on the roster being all that important. And given the marginal cost of getting there, is it worth it?

85–90 scholarship players is better than 105—there’s no reason to carry 20 extra bodies if you need that much “depth,” because at that point the team just isn’t good enough. We should be two-deep at every position, hopefully three-deep, and if we have competent backups we’ll win a lot of games. Last year’s problems went far beyond bad QB play; the lack of X’s and O’s, experience, and in-game adjustments showed, especially when injuries hit. That’s changing under Fran Brown with the addition of real recruiters, better schemers, and experienced coaches. The lack of talent on the OL and DL was obvious last season, and upgrading both talent and depth in the trenches is the key. I’m not worried about the skill positions—we’ll get those guys—and if we improve the lines this year, Syracuse can win the ACC and compete in the CFP next year.

 

[PhatOrange]

85–90 scholarship players is better than 105—there’s no reason to carry 20 extra bodies if you need that much “depth,” because at that point the team just isn’t good enough.

Teams have always carried that many players when you count the walkons.

 

[Ttk.gman2]

Teams have always carried that many players when you count the walkons.

Oh ok

 

[javadoc]

Teams have always carried that many players when you count the walkons.

Would you pay walkons now?

 

[Phin#3]

Increasing from 85 to 105, would you increase each position proportionately? What would be your strategy?

I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd look at the 85 breakdown and see where extra bodies might make a significant difference. I see one spot that seems like a good candidate, DL. So you can rotate guys. Not the same for OL, you just need good backups, but you're not looking to rotate bodies frequently. Maybe DB? I'd keep the WR count about the same, RB, etc. I just don't see 20 extra bodies on the roster being all that important. And given the marginal cost of getting there, is it worth it?

Wildhack has stated they are giving out 85 scholarships this year so this would only be hypothetical.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Increasing from 85 to 105, would you increase each position proportionately? What would be your strategy?

I'm not sure it's worth it. I'd look at the 85 breakdown and see where extra bodies might make a significant difference. I see one spot that seems like a good candidate, DL. So you can rotate guys. Not the same for OL, you just need good backups, but you're not looking to rotate bodies frequently. Maybe DB? I'd keep the WR count about the same, RB, etc. I just don't see 20 extra bodies on the roster being all that important. And given the marginal cost of getting there, is it worth it?

Well we should probably use about 8 on QB to ensure we bat at least .250 and have 2 capable. (joking... mostly)

 

[sufandu]

Are guys 86-105 even getting on the field? Anyone I get there is either practice fodder or an undeveloped little known insane athlete that I want to try to develop.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Are guys 86-105 even getting on the field? Anyone I get there is either practice fodder or an undeveloped little known insane athlete that I want to try to develop.

Not likely but better to pick the best 85 of 105 vs just pick 85 off the feild. We have ~85 now, do we not think adding 20 more transfers will net us additional names in the top 85 vs what we have now? There's probably at least 15 spots in today's potential 2 deep that are easily replaced by superior, more experienced talent next year. We NEED need at least 1 qb, 2 rb, 3 OL, 3 DL, 2 LBs, and 2 safeties added to our 2 deep right now. Other 6 take BPA regardless of position and fill in the class gaps.

 

[NineOneSeven]

105 lolol

 

[walsh2012]

Increasing from 85 to 105, would you increase each position proportionately? What would be your strategy?

I’d want to be able to play 15 at oline and 12 hand down dline.

Being able to stay fresh and get push to the passer/keep a tight pocket late in the game/season is the blueprint to being a great program.

Stars become superstars. Dudes become stars. Theres a reason why the line of scrimmage is where the most people line up. Win it consistently you win consistently

 

[dan7800]

100 QBs. There's got to be 1 guy out of the 100 that could actually play the position moderately serviceably.

 

[OrangeAl]

Back before there were hard roster limits the big boys used to overload with talent, just so that nobody else got the guys that were destined to sit on their bench. The 85 limit was really sensible and good for the balance of college football. With the 105 limit that balance comes from the portal. Yech!

 

[Jack_Ball]

Wildhack has stated they are giving out 85 scholarships this year so this would only be hypothetical.

There is no way we stay at 85...I think we are at 86 right now with 26 transferring out. Maybe we dont reach 105 but it has to be more than 85 or we dont plan on using the portal or we can expect another wave hitting the portal

 

[sufandu]

Not likely but better to pick the best 85 of 105 vs just pick 85 off the feild. We have ~85 now, do we not think adding 20 more transfers will net us additional names in the top 85 vs what we have now? There's probably at least 15 spots in today's potential 2 deep that are easily replaced by superior, more experienced talent next year. We NEED need at least 1 qb, 2 rb, 3 OL, 3 DL, 2 LBs, and 2 safeties added to our 2 deep right now. Other 6 take BPA regardless of position and fill in the class gaps.

Or bring in those 20 and get rid of 20 you currently have. Regardless of how you look at it, players 86-105 aren't playing.

How many do we need for gameday? 55-60? That leaves 25-30 for injury depth and scout team. Does carrying another 20 help us?

 

[upperdeck]

The big difference in college and NFL in roster is when games get out of hand or injuries hit. In college a 20 pt game you might have 15-20 different guys go finish it. In the pros you have far fewer options and often have to play many starters just to get to the end.

Pros carry 6-7 Oline guys on game days and a couple on practice squad . We have 15-20 on the roster and still seem to not have enough.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Or bring in those 20 and get rid of 20 you currently have. Regardless of how you look at it, players 86-105 aren't playing.

How many do we need for gameday? 55-60? That leaves 25-30 for injury depth and scout team. Does carrying another 20 help us?

Basically what is transpiring. You offer 1 year guaranteed scholarship and if you're not in the top 85 you get let go. You still need to offer 105 scholarships yearly though, you can't simply cut someone's scholarship off as soon as they don't make it.

These bottom 1/3rd roster guys aren't your big money NIL players. If you take their scholarship immediately, and they aren't from a wealthy family, they're not going to be able to afford to stay at a school as spendy as Syracuse or possibly any other school.

If you're a D1 caliber athlete and like 2 schools equally, why even risk it at a 60k+/ per year Syracuse if 40k out of state or 25k/year in state Penn State is offering? Your fallback option to not play but stay in the same school is exponentially cheaper. If you want an equally spendy ACC school to Syracuse, why not Stanford where your degree will carry more weight and the weather is nicer?

Syracuse cannot compete athletically IF they want to be frugal WHILE still charging what they do in tuition ESPECIALLY in a state that doesn't have an overabundance of local talent. NYC kids are closer to Piscataway, State College and College Park after all and Syracuse does not offer in state tuition. Maryland kids can go be a terp for the same price as NY kids can go to Buffalo.

Unless Syracuse becomes an elite degree the potential financial burden on students, especially athletes, simply doesn't pass a cost/benefit analysis. We (Cuse) almost have to be willing to "medically DQ" but still pay tuition for degrees for players that aren't good enough ala Tennessee and their 40 per year recruiting classes in the 85 scholarship era. You don't make it as a player? Fine, we'll play the system and still make sure you get a chance at a degree unless you transfer.

Realistically the number isn't 85 or 105 for elite schools, it's 150+ and always has been. A winning football team will more than pay for all football related scholarships... it just costs more at Cuse because Cuse costs more. The schools 2+ billion endowment isn't going to railroaded by an extra 5 million in athletic related scholarships.

 

[sufandu]

Basically what is transpiring. You offer 1 year guaranteed scholarship and if you're not in the top 85 you get let go. You still need to offer 105 scholarships yearly though, you can't simply cut someone's scholarship off as soon as they don't make it.

These bottom 1/3rd roster guys aren't your big money NIL players. If you take their scholarship immediately, and they aren't from a wealthy family, they're not going to be able to afford to stay at a school as spendy as Syracuse or possibly any other school.

If you're a D1 caliber athlete and like 2 schools equally, why even risk it at a 60k+/ per year Syracuse if 40k out of state or 25k/year in state Penn State is offering? Your fallback option to not play but stay in the same school is exponentially cheaper. If you want an equally spendy ACC school to Syracuse, why not Stanford where your degree will carry more weight and the weather is nicer?

Syracuse cannot compete athletically IF they want to be frugal WHILE still charging what they do in tuition ESPECIALLY in a state that doesn't have an overabundance of local talent. NYC kids are closer to Piscataway, State College and College Park after all and Syracuse does not offer in state tuition. Maryland kids can go be a terp for the same price as NY kids can go to Buffalo.

Unless Syracuse becomes an elite degree the potential financial burden on students, especially athletes, simply doesn't pass a cost/benefit analysis. We (Cuse) almost have to be willing to "medically DQ" but still pay tuition for degrees for players that aren't good enough ala Tennessee and their 40 per year recruiting classes in the 85 scholarship era. You don't make it as a player? Fine, we'll play the system and still make sure you get a chance at a degree unless you transfer.

Realistically the number isn't 85 or 105 for elite schools, it's 150+ and always has been. A winning football team will more than pay for all football related scholarships... it just costs more at Cuse because Cuse costs more. The schools 2+ billion endowment isn't going to railroaded by an extra 5 million in athletic related scholarships.

You're not taking scholarships away, you're strongly suggesting transferring. Most of these guys are not coming here specifically for a SU diploma. Anyone initially on scholarship here can find a home somewhere.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. It seems like you're saying we need 105 players. I'm suggesting we don't. Those schools that have 150+ aren't benefiting from the bottom half of those, unless they occasionally find a diamond in the rough that then earns a scholly.

If Fran and JW think we'll benefit from 105, that's what we'll carry. As of right now they don't think there's any advantage. The QB situation this year was an example of numbers not mattering. We had a plethora of QBs on the roster. It didn't matter because the quality wasn't there. It'll be the same with other position groups. If you don't find and land your quality in the first 85, the next twenty won't be any better.

 

[sufandu]

The big difference in college and NFL in roster is when games get out of hand or injuries hit. In college a 20 pt game you might have 15-20 different guys go finish it. In the pros you have far fewer options and often have to play many starters just to get to the end.

Pros carry 6-7 Oline guys on game days and a couple on practice squad . We have 15-20 on the roster and still seem to not have enough.

We have enough. We just don't have enough that are good enough.