Howard returning from surgery

[Capt. Tuttle]

In today's PS:

Syracuse basketball's Frank Howard recovering from surgery

I have been among the hardest on Frank. Gonna back off a bit. That could not have been an easy injury to play with.
Pain can impact effort and decision making, as well as overall play.

 

[CuseLifer11]

First paragraph: false, false, and false.

Second paragraph: maybe, but far from assured.

Hey man u can believe what u want. Not many if any posters on this board are closer to the situation than me. It's all good either way. I am not all that concerned if people believe me. It's not an opinion at all though.

Happy Hump Day.

 

[RF2044]

Hey man u can believe what u want. Not many if any posters on this board are closer to the situation than me. It's all good either way. I am not all that concerned if people believe me. It's not an opinion at all though.

Happy Hump Day.

Actually, that's exactly what it is. Your opinion, presented as fact.

The notion that Howard--who has only been cleared to get on the court a couple of days after recovering from surgery--is already a predetermined starter, or is going to be anointed before the coaches see what they have in Thorpe, isn't even logical. And to suggest that all of Howard's issues last year were attributable to injury alone is patently absurd.

I have zero doubt whatsoever that you are an insider, but in your fairly short time on the board you've shown a tendency to state your opinion as fact, with a healthy dose of hyperbole sprinkled in. Howard could very well make a big improvement, earn a starting role, perform well, etc. But he'll have to earn those outcomes.

I like the contributions you're bringing to the board--keep 'em coming--and happy hump day to you as well.

 

[orangefog]

I guess not many of you guys have daughters (or sons) that dance. There is a huge emphasis in the dance world on the development of 'core muscles' (abdomen to groin region). These muscles impact your balance, side to side agility, ability to pivot, and jumping ability (although jumping is affected to a lesser extent than balance and lateral agility). This muscle grouping is also very important to basketball players.

Mason

Look at gymnasts, there is a reason the best female gymnasts are built like barrels. Simone Biles' core is ridiculous.

 

[TinyManInside]

Look at gymnasts, there is a reason the best female gymnasts are built like barrels. Simone Biles' core is ridiculous.

Yup. Same with dancers.

 

[orangecuse]

Actually, that's exactly what it is. Your opinion, presented as fact.

The notion that Howard--who has only been cleared to get on the court a couple of days after recovering from surgery--is already a predetermined starter, or is going to be anointed before the coaches see what they have in Thorpe, isn't even logical. And to suggest that all of Howard's issues last year were attributable to injury alone is patently absurd.

I have zero doubt whatsoever that you are an insider, but in your fairly short time on the board you've shown a tendency to state your opinion as fact, with a healthy dose of hyperbole sprinkled in. Howard could very well make a big improvement, earn a starting role, perform well, etc. But he'll have to earn those outcomes.

I like the contributions you're bringing to the board--keep 'em coming--and happy hump day to you as well.

Your backhanded compliment to CuseLifer kinda reminded me of this 'ol commercial.

 

[SWC75]

My goal is for upperclassman Frank to be upperclassman Z Sims.

An emotionally positive, team-first, game manager who distributes the ball well. Frank is not a good offensive player. He doesn't shoot or finish well around the rim. But that's OK, neither was Z. If he can average 7-8 ppg (no pathetic shooting percentages, give us 45% from the field or higher), 5-6 apg, low turnovers, and disrupt passing lanes on defense with his length, he can fully reestablish himself as a vital piece of this team. And most importantly, no moping under any circumstances. He should be standing up on the bench encouraging young guys and helping them. That's what a veteran point guard does.

Frank's numbers last season:

Pre-Conference:
23.3M 12.1P 4.2R 10.7A 3.6S 0.5B 30.6+ 6.5MFG 2.1MFT 4.0TO 4.0PF 16.6 - = 14.0NP 3.5OE 10.5FG

Conference:
10.7M 9.8P 4.6R 6.9A 2.1S 0.0B 23.4+ 6.9MFG 0.8MFT 5.0TO 5.0PF 17.7 - = 5.7NP 2.1OE 3.6FG

Post-Season:
13.3M 10.5P 1.1R 6.3A 1.1S 1.1B 20.1+ 8.4MFG 4.2MFT 3.2TO 2.1PF 17.9- = 2.2NP -2.1OE 4.3FG

Total:
15.7M 11.2P 4.1R 9.0A 2.9S 0.4B 27.6+ 6.8MFG 1.5MFT 4.3TO 4.2PF 16.8- = 10.8NP 2.9OE 7.9FG

Lazarus Sims as a...

junior:
14.7m 8.1p 3.9r 7.1a 2.4s 0.1b +21.6 2.8mfg 0.9mft 3.4to 4.2pf -11.3 = 10.3NP 4.4OE 5.9FG

senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG

I don't have pre-conference-conference-post season breakdown for Sims. Howard is clearly a better scorer. They are comparable on the boards. Frank's overall assist rate is higher but that's inflated by what he did in the pre-conference season. I doubt Sims had as big a difference. Of course Frank's undisclosed injury may have been a factor there. The same is true of the steals rate. Frank got his hand on a couple more shots. Sims didn't shoot much but didn't miss much, (his scoring average looks better when you look at the number of misses). Z didn't get to the line much but didn't miss much. He had fewer turnovers and considerably fewer fouls as a senior, (usually a measure of your own turnovers and how well you are playing on defense. He had fewer positives but far fewer negatives.

Still, Howard's net points, offensive efficiency and floor game are very similar to what Sims had as a senior, suggesting that he might be able to become that type of player as he heals and matures.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Frank's numbers last season:

Pre-Conference:
23.3M 12.1P 4.2R 10.7A 3.6S 0.5B 30.6+ 6.5MFG 2.1MFT 4.0TO 4.0PF 16.6 - = 14.0NP 3.5OE 10.5FG

Conference:
10.7M 9.8P 4.6R 6.9A 2.1S 0.0B 23.4+ 6.9MFG 0.8MFT 5.0TO 5.0PF 17.7 - = 5.7NP 2.1OE 3.6FG

Post-Season:
13.3M 10.5P 1.1R 6.3A 1.1S 1.1B 20.1+ 8.4MFG 4.2MFT 3.2TO 2.1PF 17.9- = 2.2NP -2.1OE 4.3FG

Total:
15.7M 11.2P 4.1R 9.0A 2.9S 0.4B 27.6+ 6.8MFG 1.5MFT 4.3TO 4.2PF 16.8- = 10.8NP 2.9OE 7.9FG

Lazarus Sims as a...

junior:
14.7m 8.1p 3.9r 7.1a 2.4s 0.1b +21.6 2.8mfg 0.9mft 3.4to 4.2pf -11.3 = 10.3NP 4.4OE 5.9FG

senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG

I don't have pre-conference-conference-post season breakdown for Sims. Howard is clearly a better scorer. They are comparable on the boards. Frank's overall assist rate is higher but that's inflated by what he did in the pre-conference season. I doubt Sims had as big a difference. Of course Frank's undisclosed injury may have been a factor there. The same is true of the steals rate. Frank got his hand on a couple more shots. Sims didn't shoot much but didn't miss much, (his scoring average looks better when you look at the number of misses). Z didn't get to the line much but didn't miss much. He had fewer turnovers and considerably fewer fouls as a senior, (usually a measure of your own turnovers and how well you are playing on defense. He had fewer positives but far fewer negatives.

Still, Howard's net points, offensive efficiency and floor game are very similar to what Sims had as a senior, suggesting that he might be able to become that type of player as he heals and matures.

Sims was a 1,000 point scorer in high school. He chose not to score in college, except for important baskets.

 

[Eric15]

Sims was a 1,000 point scorer in high school. He chose not to score in college, except for important baskets.

Nothing about that makes sense, Capt.

 

[bevosu]

Sims had one intangible that doesn't show up in his stats. He really knew how to QB an offense (as a senior). He ran an offense from the PG position that year about as well as any PG we've had.

I loved his game.

 

[CuseLifer11]

Actually, that's exactly what it is. Your opinion, presented as fact.

The notion that Howard--who has only been cleared to get on the court a couple of days after recovering from surgery--is already a predetermined starter, or is going to be anointed before the coaches see what they have in Thorpe, isn't even logical. And to suggest that all of Howard's issues last year were attributable to injury alone is patently absurd.

I have zero doubt whatsoever that you are an insider, but in your fairly short time on the board you've shown a tendency to state your opinion as fact, with a healthy dose of hyperbole sprinkled in. Howard could very well make a big improvement, earn a starting role, perform well, etc. But he'll have to earn those outcomes.

I like the contributions you're bringing to the board--keep 'em coming--and happy hump day to you as well.

Day 1 starter is my opinion, yes. Based on everything I see and hear. The part that is not opinion is that FH would have never lost his job to Gillon if he didn't get hurt. He massacred him in practices. He was playing well in the non conference. He got hurt before ACC games. It greatly hampered him. That coupled with his off court events made last year a disaster and year he was surely a sour puss.

People IMO are going to be so very pleasantly surprised w this year's FH. As well as this year's team in general.

Expect a better record than last year be at least a few games.

 

[CuseLifer11]

Frank's numbers last season:

Pre-Conference:
23.3M 12.1P 4.2R 10.7A 3.6S 0.5B 30.6+ 6.5MFG 2.1MFT 4.0TO 4.0PF 16.6 - = 14.0NP 3.5OE 10.5FG

Conference:
10.7M 9.8P 4.6R 6.9A 2.1S 0.0B 23.4+ 6.9MFG 0.8MFT 5.0TO 5.0PF 17.7 - = 5.7NP 2.1OE 3.6FG

Post-Season:
13.3M 10.5P 1.1R 6.3A 1.1S 1.1B 20.1+ 8.4MFG 4.2MFT 3.2TO 2.1PF 17.9- = 2.2NP -2.1OE 4.3FG

Total:
15.7M 11.2P 4.1R 9.0A 2.9S 0.4B 27.6+ 6.8MFG 1.5MFT 4.3TO 4.2PF 16.8- = 10.8NP 2.9OE 7.9FG

Lazarus Sims as a...

junior:
14.7m 8.1p 3.9r 7.1a 2.4s 0.1b +21.6 2.8mfg 0.9mft 3.4to 4.2pf -11.3 = 10.3NP 4.4OE 5.9FG

senior:
35.6m 7.1p 4.1r 8.3a 1.6s 0.1b +21.2 2.9mfg 0.7mft 3.6to 2.2pf -9.4 = 11.8NP 3.5OE 8.3FG

I don't have pre-conference-conference-post season breakdown for Sims. Howard is clearly a better scorer. They are comparable on the boards. Frank's overall assist rate is higher but that's inflated by what he did in the pre-conference season. I doubt Sims had as big a difference. Of course Frank's undisclosed injury may have been a factor there. The same is true of the steals rate. Frank got his hand on a couple more shots. Sims didn't shoot much but didn't miss much, (his scoring average looks better when you look at the number of misses). Z didn't get to the line much but didn't miss much. He had fewer turnovers and considerably fewer fouls as a senior, (usually a measure of your own turnovers and how well you are playing on defense. He had fewer positives but far fewer negatives.

Still, Howard's net points, offensive efficiency and floor game are very similar to what Sims had as a senior, suggesting that he might be able to become that type of player as he heals and matures.

My goodness is this a good post. Great comparison.

 

[RF2044]

Day 1 starter is my opinion, yes. Based on everything I see and hear. The part that is not opinion is that FH would have never lost his job to Gillon if he didn't get hurt. He massacred him in practices. He was playing well in the non conference. He got hurt before ACC games. It greatly hampered him. That coupled with his off court events made last year a disaster and year he was surely a sour puss.

People IMO are going to be so very pleasantly surprised w this year's FH. As well as this year's team in general.

Expect a better record than last year be at least a few games.

I hope you are right. The truth of the matter is that there hasn't been a bigger Frank fan than me since he committed. You could scroll back years to review my posts about him from that time, and you'd see how excited I was about bringing him in, how terrific he sounded in interviews, etc. That isn't just lip service now. Not that I expected him to be a star over Mali / Lydon, but he was the recruit in that class that I looked forward to seeing how his career would unfold the most. So, despite what happened last year, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But when I read stuff like your first paragraph, it seems highly rationalized -- I'm sorry, but it does -- and this is where I think being close to the player might be working against you. There was a lot more going on that just the injury with Frank last season--we both know that. And your take on what happened with Gillon couldn't be further from the truth. He got benched prior to getting injured, and him losing extensive playing time initially had zero to do with the injury, at least not initially. And it is no coincidence that the team took off and began to win games once Frank was pulled from the starting lineup. I'm not trying to be argumentative with you -- but the facts speak for themselves. Let's just agree to disagree.

The good news is that Frank has a chance to put his issues -- injury AND attitude-related -- in the rear view mirror this season. Whether that's as a starter or as the primary backcourt backup, he has the opportunity to play a key role in the team's success this year. Could he be a Day 1 starter? Absolutely. But I wouldn't put the cart in front of the horse with Thorpe coming in. Let's see how it plays out -- I'd settle for Frank being a consistent contributor and a good teammate, which would be significant steps forward from last year on both accounts. Anything more? Disco.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Nothing about that makes sense, Capt.

His team had scorers. He chose to be a pure passing PG. If there were "hockey assists", Z would have a single season assist record.
That said, he did, however, make lots of big shots at winning time.
The best thing to happen to the 86/87 team was Lloyd leaving. If you could find a tape, I went on the then local talk show pre-season, predicting a Final Four based upon Z being the PG.

 

[Eric15]

His team had scorers. He chose to be a pure passing PG. If there were "hockey assists", Z would have a single season assist record.
That said, he did, however, make lots of big shots at winning time.
The best thing to happen to the 86/87 team was Lloyd leaving. If you could find a tape, I went on the then local talk show pre-season, predicting a Final Four based upon Z being the PG.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one time where Z made extremely clutch baskets, and that was when he hit those two threes on consecutive possessions against Georgia in the Sweet 16 to cut the lead from 10 to 4, I believe.

Being a 1,000 point scorer isn't really a big deal for a Big East-level starting guard. All these guys are superstars in high school. The idea that he "chose not to score" seems strange to me. Clearly we could have used more points here and there during his career at SU.

 

[RF2044]

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one time where Z made extremely clutch baskets, and that was when he hit those two threes on consecutive possessions against Georgia in the Sweet 16 to cut the lead from 10 to 4, I believe.

Being a 1,000 point scorer isn't really a big deal for a Big East-level starting guard. All these guys are superstars in high school. The idea that he "chose not to score" seems strange to me. Clearly we could have used more points here and there during his career at SU.

He did the same thing against Drexel earlier in the tournament [i.e., back to back threes] when we were down 12 late in the 2nd half.

I tend to agree with Captain. He could have scored more, but executed his role on that team perfectly. He hit clutch shots that year when we needed them. The crazy thing about that team is that we were pretty good -- bottom of the top 25-ish, and had beaten good teams [@ Arizona, for example]. But the BE was LOADED that season; Nova, Gtown, and UConn were all top 10 caliber teams, so we weren't at the top of the conference.

 

[RF2044]

His team had scorers. He chose to be a pure passing PG. If there were "hockey assists", Z would have a single season assist record.
That said, he did, however, make lots of big shots at winning time.
The best thing to happen to the 86/87 team was Lloyd leaving. If you could find a tape, I went on the then local talk show pre-season, predicting a Final Four based upon Z being the PG.

Not 86-87, Captain. ; )

95-96.

 

[Eric15]

He did the same thing against Drexel earlier in the tournament [i.e., back to back threes] when we were down 12 late in the 2nd half.

I don't recall that. I remember that 2nd round Drexel game as being one where we were pretty much in control throughout. I feel like a 12 point 2nd half late comeback in the NCAA tourney would have been etched in all of our collective memories forever.

 

[RF2044]

I don't recall that. I remember that 2nd round Drexel game as being one where we were pretty much in control throughout. I feel like a 12 point 2nd half late comeback in the NCAA tourney would have been etched in all of our collective memories forever.

Eric, it was a close / tightly contested game throughout, until we pulled away at the end. They had a big man [really, he was only 6-7 250 pounds] who went on to have a very nice career with the San Antonio Spurs.

I found this article, which describes Z's back to back threes -- but you are correct about me getting the scenario wrong [I think I mixed that up the part about being down by a substantial amount with the Georgia game]. They were closing, and Z's tandem of shots put them away.

Syracuse 69, Drexel 58

Got the details wrong, mea culpa. But nonetheless, guy hit key shots at key moments.

 

[Trueblue25]

Day 1 starter is my opinion, yes. Based on everything I see and hear. The part that is not opinion is that FH would have never lost his job to Gillon if he didn't get hurt. He massacred him in practices. He was playing well in the non conference. He got hurt before ACC games. It greatly hampered him. That coupled with his off court events made last year a disaster and year he was surely a sour puss.

People IMO are going to be so very pleasantly surprised w this year's FH. As well as this year's team in general.

Expect a better record than last year be at least a few games.

Why do you build me up

 

[CuseLifer11]

Why do you build me up

8-23 here we come I guess?

 

[Trueblue25]

8-23 here we come I guess?

Nope, banner #2

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB said he thinks "It's Frank Howard's time" on Axe's radio show today and compared him to Scoop again.

 

[SoBeCuse]

JB said he thinks "It's Frank Howard's time" on Axe's radio show today and compared him to Scoop again.

It will be interesting to see how Geno compares. Boeheim did say in the 'No Huddle' tour stop in Albany yesterday that Geno and Marek won't be here til Sept.

 

[MSOrange]

Eric, it was a close / tightly contested game throughout, until we pulled away at the end. They had a big man [really, he was only 6-7 250 pounds] who went on to have a very nice career with the San Antonio Spurs.

I found this article, which describes Z's back to back threes -- but you are correct about me getting the scenario wrong [I think I mixed that up the part about being down by a substantial amount with the Georgia game]. They were closing, and Z's tandem of shots put them away.

Syracuse 69, Drexel 58

Got the details wrong, mea culpa. But nonetheless, guy hit key shots at key moments.

Also got a rare triple double in Syracuse history that season.

Lazarus Sims records triple-double against St. John's (This Date in Syracuse/Big East History)