Hunter Dickinson

[qdawgg]

Coaches cant just leave.. Many have penalties for leaving.

Kids want guaranteed scholies and also the freedom to leave . But this isnt just about whats best for any single kid. Its for the betterment of the sport as a whole which is why the NCAA exists to try to even the playing field.

When has a coach had a penalty for leaving? The so called buyout gets taken care of by the new school. The coach can leave the day before signing day and completely screw the program for at least that year. They don’t sit out a year, they don’t have to get an exemption from the NCAA. What penalties?

 

[qdawgg]

'Competition' is not altered by a regular/academic college student transferring schools.
Recruiting classes aren't disrupted by a regular/academic college student transferring schools.
There's no reason to ever require someone to sit out of education/classes.

There's just a lot tied up in an athlete being part of a program or not. Greater consequences require a different set of guardrails.

I don’t disagree at all. I’m just wondering when all of this ends up in a court. The question will be asked; why are college students who choose to also play a sport while at the college, treated differently than a student who decides to leave and enroll somewhere else. Then the court will decide if the answer that the athlete gets benefits the regular college student doesn’t get, is sufficient enough to treat them differently.

 

[NorSyr66]

I think we went with $1

...hope we asked for change!!

 

[upperdeck]

When has a coach had a penalty for leaving? The so called buyout gets taken care of by the new school. The coach can leave the day before signing day and completely screw the program for at least that year. They don’t sit out a year, they don’t have to get an exemption from the NCAA. What penalties?

so add up all the coaches they left last year and compare to the hundreds and hundreds of kids leaving.. And how many coaches leave after 1 yr

 

[qdawgg]

so add up all the coaches they left last year and compare to the hundreds and hundreds of kids leaving.. And how many coaches leave after 1 yr

Because there are less coaches than there are players…… Also coaches have a guaranteed contract to start the process. Players didn’t. They are leaving to guaranteed $ or better $, just as coaches have done for years.

Again, where have coaches been universally punished each year for leaving their schools and more importantly, leaving the players, high and dry?

 

[sufandu]

so add up all the coaches they left last year and compare to the hundreds and hundreds of kids leaving.. And how many coaches leave after 1 yr

Yeah. The level of instability isn't even comparable. I saw a story about coaching changes from the 2018-19 season. The number of total coaching changes was 54. 14 of those were guys that voluntarily left for other jobs and had an average tenure of 5.4 years at the school they were leaving. The rest were fired, resigned, or retired, and their average tenures were longer.

One thing I found interesting was that most of the coaches that left for greener pastures were leaving small schools where I think most of the players don't have a better landing place if they want to transfer. So the guys being hurt the most by coaches leaving aren't even guys that will benefit from the new transfer rules.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don’t disagree at all. I’m just wondering when all of this ends up in a court. The question will be asked; why are college students who choose to also play a sport while at the college, treated differently than a student who decides to leave and enroll somewhere else. Then the court will decide if the answer that the athlete gets benefits the regular college student doesn’t get, is sufficient enough to treat them differently.

Athletes on scholarship can transfer to another school at will, and take classes immediately, just like anyone else. It’s just the matter of participation in NCAA sports that is regulated. That’s the additional component that an athlete is subjected to that just isn’t applicable to a regular academic student. Eligibility matters are just a different topic than simply changing schools for classes.

I agree, that somehow this will all end up in court again, as I don’t think it benefits schools or the NCAA to continue down this road which will be further escalated and perverted and exploited over time. It’s ugly and unseemly now, and it will only get worse.

 

[qdawgg]

Athletes on scholarship can transfer to another school at will, and take classes immediately, just like anyone else. It’s just the matter of participation in NCAA sports that is regulated. That’s the additional component that an athlete is subjected to that just isn’t applicable to a regular academic student. Eligibility matters are just a different topic than simply changing schools for classes.

I agree, that somehow this will all end up in court again, as I don’t think it benefits schools or the NCAA to continue down this road which will be further escalated and perverted and exploited over time. It’s ugly and unseemly now, and it will only get worse.

Completely agree. I do think though, a judge will ask. Why is it that an athlete is regulated in a way other students aren’t, just because they’ve also chosen to play a sport. Again, I don’t like all of this instability. I don’t think it’s good for the whole system, minus a few players out of the whole pool of students who make out better, financially.

But what the NCAA or anybody is going to have to answer is why are student athletes different. Just because they’re getting NIL $, any college student can start an onlyfans account and benefit from their NIL too. So I think that’ll be a legal sticking point to creating any regulations to player movement. We all understand how college players are different. The question is whether that’s enough justification to limit their ability to move their labor around in a theoretical free market.

 

[shandeezy7]

Completely agree. I do think though, a judge will ask. Why is it that an athlete is regulated in a way other students aren’t, just because they’ve also chosen to play a sport. Again, I don’t like all of this instability. I don’t think it’s good for the whole system, minus a few players out of the whole pool of students who make out better, financially.

But what the NCAA or anybody is going to have to answer is why are student athletes different. Just because they’re getting NIL $, any college student can start an onlyfans account and benefit from their NIL too. So I think that’ll be a legal sticking point to creating any regulations to player movement. We all understand how college players are different. The question is whether that’s enough justification to limit their ability to move their labor around in a theoretical free market.

Aren't there transfer rules at the high school level though, as well? I can remember a kid in my class at a private high school transferred to another private high school across town because the basketball coach at our school left. Section III had/has rules against transferring to another school for athletic reasons and he was forced to sit out a year. He even brought it to court and lost. This was 20 years ago, so maybe things have changed since then.

 

[qdawgg]

Aren't there transfer rules at the high school level though, as well? I can remember a kid in my class at a private high school transferred to another private high school across town because the basketball coach at our school left. Section III had/has rules against transferring to another school for athletic reasons and he was forced to sit out a year. He even brought it to court and lost. This was 20 years ago, so maybe things have changed since then.

There are pretty strict transfer rules, at least in NYS that largely deal with residency. That’s a great point. I haven’t coached in about 6 years but money3189 would have a good idea I bet. I think they’re also state by state laws, so NYS laws are pretty strict but not sure that all states are.

I also can’t remember if they’re mainly to prevent cheating that was occurring. So for example. Kid doesn’t start as the QB, coaches freshman son gets the job over the Senior who’s played since he was a sophomore. Parents get a P.O. Box in next town over and enroll him there even though they’re not physically living there. So he can play at the other school. I believe that is the main part of the NYS law that you need to actually be living in the district but someone correct me if I’m wrong. We’ve had students come in for other sports, move in to district and they’re eligible to play immediately.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I’m not saying I agree and I definitely need there needs to be some limits/rules in place instead of this free for all.

But playing devils advocate…… a college student can transfer to a new college and not have to sit out of classes for a year. I get the athlete that transfers can still attend classes the year he’s sitting but what is the legal reasoning behind requiring them to sit out a year of athletics too?

I’ve always hated how coaches can just leave basically whenever. But if coaches can leave whenever without any impunity why can’t players? I understand they’re not technically employees, like the coaches.

But colleges deny transferred credits all the time, making college students weigh the extra costs of making up the credits and deciding the worth of losing credits when starting again at a new locale.

 

[djcon57]

Coaches cant just leave.. Many have penalties for leaving.

Kids want guaranteed scholies and also the freedom to leave . But this isnt just about whats best for any single kid. Its for the betterment of the sport as a whole which is why the NCAA exists to try to even the playing field.

The ncaa has no power whatsoever at this point. They are just trying to keep it together.

 

[djcon57]

Just say no NIL for 1st year on campus (after HS or transfer) if you really want to (somewhat) keep the spirit of what NIL was supposed to be.

who says “no nil for 1st year”? Who will enforce this when there is state law that says otherwise?

 

[Cheriehoop]

When has a coach had a penalty for leaving? The so called buyout gets taken care of by the new school. The coach can leave the day before signing day and completely screw the program for at least that year. They don’t sit out a year, they don’t have to get an exemption from the NCAA. What penalties?

The new school has to accept paying the buyout. It’s why many coaching changes are held up for a few years till the coach’s payout is bearable for a new destination.

It would be interesting if colleges had to reimburse/ pay a buyout to colleges whose player
they are poaching.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

So, it’s Kansas, not Kentucky?

 

[miamicuse]

Kansas, winner of the Hunt Dick sweepstakes

 

[JustPherU]

The new school has to accept paying the buyout. It’s why many coaching changes are held up for a few years till the coach’s payout is bearable for a new destination.

It would be interesting if colleges had to reimburse/ pay a buyout to colleges whose player
they are poaching.

Love the idea of paying the school that loses the player.Anyway that could happen or would some kind of legalities get in the way?

 

[NYCCuse826]

Love the idea of paying the school that loses the player.Anyway that could happen or would some kind of legalities get in the way?

The collective would need to set it up as they're paying the players. I wouldn't be surprised if John Ruiz has that language in the contracts he gives out which is why he didn't entertain the idea of negotiating with Isiah Wong before the season.

 

[JustPherU]

The collective would need to set it up as they're paying the players. I wouldn't be surprised if John Ruiz has that language in the contracts he gives out which is why he didn't entertain the idea of negotiating with Isiah Wong before the season.

Why would a collective think about paying the school losing the player?I’m talking about the NCAA implementing a rule that if you take a player from another school you must pay the school that is losing the player a fee.
I understand the schools aren’t paying the players but they could still have a rule that states if you have a player that came from another school you must compensate the school from where he came.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Kids want guaranteed scholies and also the freedom to leave . But this isnt just about whats best for any single kid. Its for the betterment of the sport as a whole which is why the NCAA exists to try to even the playing field.

I strongly, strongly with this "betterment of the sport" over what's best for the student-athlete sentiment.

I am curious and feel it's incumbent on you to define what's "better" for the sport. How are you measuring that? "Better" is a very subjective word.

 

[longtimefan]

Because there are less coaches than there are players…… Also coaches have a guaranteed contract to start the process. Players didn’t. They are leaving to guaranteed $ or better $, just as coaches have done for years.

Again, where have coaches been universally punished each year for leaving their schools and more importantly, leaving the players, high and dry?

Devil's Advocate--

Large buyouts put the brakes on total freedom of movement for coaches.

 

[atlanticuse]

This thread is still going? Did he not sign his NIL NLI yet?

 

[orangenauburn]

This thread is still going? Did he not sign his NIL NLI yet?

He was on some podcast and basically said he made less than six figures at Michigan last year and that's why he left

 

[hoopsupstate]

Hunter is whining about making less that six figures at Michigan. That’s his problem. He has the right to go out and make deals with whomever he wants to. This wasn’t suppose to be schools having to pay for your services. These kids all want free money. Go out and find opportunities to make money, not just asking for hand outs. He’s basically telling the NCAA its pay to play on top of your scholarship.

 

[texascpa]

Hunter is whining about making less that six figures at Michigan. That’s his problem. He has the right to go out and make deals with whomever he wants to. This wasn’t suppose to be schools having to pay for your services. These kids all want free money. Go out and find opportunities to make money, not just asking for hand outs. He’s basically telling the NCAA its pay to play on top of your scholarship.

Whining? That's not how I took his statements.