Okay, let's fire

[Red2003]

This thread feels a lot like that scene in Platoon when they’re talking about if the young LT is gonna make it ha.

 

[HyattsCuse]

I feel like every conversation about an underperforming SU team is Groundhog Day.

It’s all the same talking points: you commoners don’t understand the hole we’re in… the money isn’t there… problems with institutional support… new recruiting/portal world that you can’t understand how disadvantaged we are… allusions to shadowy insider stuff…

And then we hire the right guy and most of that stuff disappears.

This isn’t rocket science, it’s college basketball. The right head coach will get the money, get the players and be good. Maybe that’s Red, maybe it’s not.

People gotta stop making this out to be some kind of unsolvable crisis though.

Great post. Definitely seems like history is repeating itself.

The main difference I see is the coach's contract. Fortunately, Babers' was reaching the end (or maybe had a year left, I don't remember) which made moving on from him easier. JW also outlined expectations for Dino that he did not meet.

The assumption is Red has multiple years to go on his contract and the details are unknown. I think best case scenario we can realistically expect is history repeats itself and JW outlines expectations for the basketball program at the end of this season which will warm up Red's seat.

 

[baggerbob]

I’m comfortable with my opinion the first day Red was hired. I thought it was a horrible hire then and everyone with eyes knows it now.

JW should be tared and feathered in Armory Square for what this basketball team has become under his watch.

The fault lies with the Chancellor for not getting JB gone after the 2nd probation. That just prolonged the slow process of the program getting worse.
JB had already started to do less recruiting, and with his best recruiter Hop leaving, and no one to check him at all, the slide just continued.

 

[Sherman20]

It wont be there from what I understand. Theres very little buy in right now. Thats the reality. Basketballs not attracting the dough that football is. 20 years of built up good will we destroyed in 5 or 6 years.

Is this insider info?

 

[billsin01]

I’m not sure that heavy handed approach ever really works though. They made Dino change staff but it didn’t solve the problem that was Dino being the head coach.

If Autry’s not capable enough to employ the best staff he can then he’s not capable enough to be HC.

True. The idea doesn’t really excite me either, just throwing stuff at the wall at this point.

 

[Cappy3]

You enjoy the football season? Because without moving, we wouldn't have that

I loved the football season. But I’ve always enjoyed basketball more. And the simple fact is that we could, and have recently, compete for a national championship in basketball, even in todays environment. We may someday make the playoffs in football, but imagining a championship in the nil environment is beyond my ken.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Getting rid of Red may dissuade them

So bring in Seth Greenberg as his bench coach, and some stud recruiter from the DC / Philly / NYC corridor.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm not sure you are correct. There is no reason that we should be so short that we are busing to games. There is smoke in the athletic budget.

Hey, remember - that's a CHOICE by the university.
If the players and coaches think that's bush league, well, speak up.

 

[phil77]

So bring in Seth Greenberg as his bench coach, and some stud recruiter from the DC / Philly / NYC corridor.

That feels like the move of bringing in all the Virginia coaches for Dino. You are delaying the inevitable

 

[IthacaMatt]

It wont be there from what I understand. Theres very little buy in right now. Thats the reality. Basketballs not attracting the dough that football is. 20 years of built up good will we destroyed in 5 or 6 years.

I posted in another thread that if we draw 20K for hoops and 40K for football, that means 150K more hoops fans attended the Dome than football fans attended in person.

The revenue difference is TV and conference money, not gate receipts. Basketball makes more money, not counting TV and conference revenue than all but a few teams in the NCAA. And our merch sales are higher than any other private school than Notre Dame, and about on par with Duke for 2nd.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That feels like the move of bringing in all the Virginia coaches for Dino. You are delaying the inevitable

Except Anae and Dino hated each other.
Seth really likes Red, and hired him at Va Tech.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Red constructed the team. We don’t have a center recruited for next year and convincing a good transfer to come will be a very difficult job. Why would anyone good come? Not enough NIL, to be coached by a former guard who doesn’t have any credits or accolades, on a team that has been steaming from mediocre to the basement.

Why would Freeman come back? If he’s not convinced he’ll be drafted high enough, some team with better tournament prospects and/or more money might poach him. Let’s hope he’s determined to stick with us through thick and thin, but that’s not the world most live in.

Well, it's pretty clear, either the Anthony family is all-in to make the best experience for their son, or this entire era is already over.

 

[elimunelson]

The fault lies with the Chancellor for not getting JB gone after the 2nd probation. That just prolonged the slow process of the program getting worse.
JB had already started to do less recruiting, and with his best recruiter Hop leaving, and no one to check him at all, the slide just continued.

most coaches don't survive one probation mind you.

The program genuflected to Jim Boeheim. Some of it justified because he was loyal and won. But after the second probation and the wacky Bernie Fine story, it got to be a bit of a daily drama with the program. Jim also got supremely cranky during this period above and beyond the loveable crankiness he exhibited in the 80s/90s.

The fact that so many people failed here is the part that blows my mind. Insiders, boosters, board of trustees, athletic dept, etc. Was the hoops operation run like Scotland Yard and no one could see the dsyfunction in there?

Red getting another year after this one is the classic "we can't fire him yet because that's what the manual says you can't do"

. Alabama, Kentucky, etc would fire their coach after this incompetence. We need to act like a program that demands some degree of excellence .

...maybe Studigor was...right (ducking lightening bolts)

 

[CuseCPT]

Marquette has a solid team. Their location is worse than Upstate NY weather wise. I cannot imagine they have more $$$ than SU? How do they do it?

Marquette has big cheese and Harley Davidson money for NIL, we'll never be able to compete with them. Fun Fact - NIL was invented by a team of UCONN and Georgetown economics professors as a way to put Syracuse University at a unique and insurmountable competitive disadvantage.

 

[dasher]

most coaches don't survive one probation mind you.

The program genuflected to Jim Boeheim. Some of it justified because he was loyal and won. But after the second probation and the wacky Bernie Fine story, it got to be a bit of a daily drama with the program. Jim also got supremely cranky during this period above and beyond the loveable crankiness he exhibited in the 80s/90s.

The fact that so many people failed here is the part that blows my mind. Insiders, boosters, board of trustees, athletic dept, etc. Was the hoops operation run like Scotland Yard and no one could see the dsyfunction in there?

Red getting another year after this one is the classic "we can't fire him yet because that's what the manual says you can't do"

. Alabama, Kentucky, etc would fire their coach after this incompetence. We need to act like a program that demands some degree of excellence .

...maybe Studigor was...right (ducking lightening bolts)

It seemed everyone failed here except you. Thank God we have you elimunelson

 

[kingtidge]

I posted in another thread that if we draw 20K for hoops and 40K for football, that means 150K more hoops fans attended the Dome than football fans attended in person.

The revenue difference is TV and conference money, not gate receipts. Basketball makes more money, not counting TV and conference revenue than all but a few teams in the NCAA. And our merch sales are higher than any other private school than Notre Dame, and about on par with Duke for 2nd.

We just played G-Town in the dome and got 17K.

 

[RF2044]

We just played G-Town in the dome and got 17K.

That's my concern. If the team finishes somewhere toward the bottom of the conference -- not being alarmist, it appears that's where we could be headed -- then what will per game average attendance decline to?

And the assorted loss of gate / concession revenue, along with it.

 

[baggerbob]

most coaches don't survive one probation mind you.

The program genuflected to Jim Boeheim. Some of it justified because he was loyal and won. But after the second probation and the wacky Bernie Fine story, it got to be a bit of a daily drama with the program. Jim also got supremely cranky during this period above and beyond the loveable crankiness he exhibited in the 80s/90s.

The fact that so many people failed here is the part that blows my mind. Insiders, boosters, board of trustees, athletic dept, etc. Was the hoops operation run like Scotland Yard and no one could see the dsyfunction in there?

Red getting another year after this one is the classic "we can't fire him yet because that's what the manual says you can't do"

. Alabama, Kentucky, etc would fire their coach after this incompetence. We need to act like a program that demands some degree of excellence .

...maybe Studigor was...right (ducking lightening bolts)

Very well thought out, wish I could like it 1000 times.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Firing Red shouldn’t be difficult. In theory he was cheap because he had no track record and maybe also because he was an alum but either way the buyout ought to not be prohibitive. If it is, that’s a big mistake on JW’s part.

It’s finding/affording a successor who can build on what we got with Kiyan and the rest of the class or assemble similar quality AND parlay it into results that is the challenge.

 

[kingtidge]

That's my concern. If the team finishes somewhere toward the bottom of the conference -- not being alarmist, it appears that's where we could be headed -- then what will per game average attendance decline to?

And the assorted loss of gate / concession revenue, along with it.

It's going to go down considerably, as it should.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

I think someone mentioned that we may be "loose" with our millions and that is a very interesting nugget we should hear about in the future.

What does this mean?

I mean if you read the posts in the thread and have reading comprehension, its not too difficult to figure out.
keymords: no question, books,very wrong, needs, fixed, chance, hear

 

[OttosShoes]

I'm increasingly tired of the bus thing. Fran doesn't even want soap when he loses and the basketball team loses but we're talking about jets?

Put up a 30 win season and they won't even be able to say no to something like that.

 

[PoppyHart]

Marquette has big cheese and Harley Davidson money for NIL, we'll never be able to compete with them. Fun Fact - NIL was invented by a team of UCONN and Georgetown economics professors as a way to put Syracuse University at a unique and insurmountable competitive disadvantage.

Don’t forget all the Miller Lite dough.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We just played G-Town in the dome and got 17K.

Yeah, well, we're garbage right now.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

At the very least JW needs to do what he did with Dino and have the staff turned over. You cannot have 3/4 of the staff bringing nothing to the table. We need to bring in an outsider who can recruit and and outsider who can X and O.


That being said Red's buyout should have been the most favorable buyout in the history of buyouts. If that is not the case, someone dropped the ball.