I’ll take it…but that was painful… | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

I’ll take it…but that was painful…

Millhouse

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“This offense” is a hybrid between Dr Bobs and our running game from last season - and our OL is average enough to make things happen

feels like this post is an auto post from 2 years ago, is milly ai
I don't know what you guys want to do, student body left and right to where all the defenders are?

Anae was heavily influenced by leach, babers by Briles, who also either for leach. When those Texas tech and Baylor teams team, where did they run?

They run inside when the numbers tell them to

You still have to block and that's where we fail
 

FrancoPizza

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“This offense” is a hybrid between Dr Bobs and our running game from last season - and our OL is average enough to make things happen

feels like this post is an auto post from 2 years ago, is milly ai
I don't see any element of last year's running game. How is it a hybrid?
 

Cuseregular

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I don't know what you guys want to do, student body left and right to where all the defenders are?

Anae was heavily influenced by leach, babers by Briles, who also either for leach. When those Texas tech and Baylor teams team, where did they run?

They run inside when the numbers tell them to

You still have to block and that's where we fail
think that's exactly what we're gonna see going forward with pulling guards, pitch sweeps in addition to up the gut, at least that's what I take from shraders comments today. Will it work? With Tuckers speed on the corners and potentially more in open space can't hurt to give it a go and mix it up as it can't be that much worse than 2.6 yards per run to this point.
 

TheCusian

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I don't know what you guys want to do, student body left and right to where all the defenders are?

Anae was heavily influenced by leach, babers by Briles, who also either for leach. When those Texas tech and Baylor teams team, where did they run?

They run inside when the numbers tell them to

You still have to block and that's where we fail
Babers was a position coach for years prior, but yeah of course the numbers play a part. Just not we’re as sure about the system as you intoned
 

PhatOrange

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think that's exactly what we're gonna see going forward with pulling guards, pitch sweeps in addition to up the gut, at least that's what I take from shraders comments today. Will it work? With Tuckers speed on the corners and potentially more in open space can't hurt to give it a go and mix it up as it can't be that much worse than 2.6 yards per run to this point.

Millhouse is right but what you describe is what we did last year with success (pulling, sweeps, stretch plays, counters.) I don’t see why we can’t mix it up and do both.
 

HRE Otto IV

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I don't know what you guys want to do, student body left and right to where all the defenders are?

Anae was heavily influenced by leach, babers by Briles, who also either for leach. When those Texas tech and Baylor teams team, where did they run?

They run inside when the numbers tell them to

You still have to block and that's where we fail

When you only run the ball behind the C, teams will have their DL fill that gap. It happens all the time now vs these Leach tree Os. They all struggle because the book is out. We are running to where they are, not where they ain't. Running behind the G or between the G-T isn't running outside. Trying to block straight up vs zone blocking or using inside pulls or traps makes a difference. What we are doing is meathead not innovative or smart.
 
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atlanticuse

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But is Tucker struggling running up the middle, or unable to cut back, or not out-running defenders?
(I've heard a couple of times - during games - that he joined the track team last year to get faster... well... that doesn't seem to be working out as planned)
 

Millhouse

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When you only run the ball behind the C, teams will have their DL fill that gap. It happens all the time now vs these Leach tree Os. They all struggle because the book is out. We are running to where they are, not where they ain't. Running behind the G or between the G-T isn't running outside. Trying to block straight up vs zone blocking or using inside pulls or traps makes a difference. What we are doing is meathead not innovative or smart.
Do you really think that baylor ran for a million yards with guys like Seastrunk because opposing teams weren't smart enough to say, hmm we should just put a DL in that gap.

I am all ears for teams with bad run blocking who succeed by running where they ain't
 

Millhouse

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think that's exactly what we're gonna see going forward with pulling guards, pitch sweeps in addition to up the gut, at least that's what I take from shraders comments today. Will it work? With Tuckers speed on the corners and potentially more in open space can't hurt to give it a go and mix it up as it can't be that much worse than 2.6 yards per run to this point.
Anae must be so frustrated (despite the record)

we'll split everyone wide to make it easy to count who will be in the box and even when the numbers say we shouldn't, we're going to try to run around it because we have lineman getting beaten on every run

it goes against everything babers ever wanted to do. maybe they're that desperate and just hope Tucker is super human and runs by everyone like viral little kid football

I get frustrated because the line doesn't need to be great, it just needs to be not terrible
 

storange

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Anae must be so frustrated (despite the record)

we'll split everyone wide to make it easy to count who will be in the box and even when the numbers say we shouldn't, we're going to try to run around it because we have lineman getting beaten on every run

it goes against everything babers ever wanted to do. maybe they're that desperate and just hope Tucker is super human and runs by everyone like viral little kid football

I get frustrated because the line doesn't need to be great, it just needs to be not terrible
There is more to it then that, you don’t go from avg 130 yds a game ( 34 ) to 30 yds a game in one year with the exact same OL guys blocking. Losing # 5 is part of it but there is more going on here.
 

money3189

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Numbers in the box tells them where to run. The box count is different for each team based on how well each team defends the run or defends the parameter.

These are not up the gut plays. Drives me nuts when people say that. Lol. The runner has the ability to run where there’s less defenders. Sometimes it’s in the the inside gaps and some times it’s in the outside gaps. It’s based on his reads. At times the O line are not getting good enough blocks ( not sure if it’s the change in technique). Some times it’s Tucker having trouble finding the holes. The vanilla run calls are not helping. I don’t know why we haven’t ran more gap run plays. Seems like they only come on designed QB runs. That’s an easy tendency that any defense will pick up on.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Do you really think that baylor ran for a million yards with guys like Seastrunk because opposing teams weren't smart enough to say, hmm we should just put a DL in that gap.

I am all ears for teams with bad run blocking who succeed by running where they ain't

Simplistically, yes. The O was new and teams didn't know how to defend it. How many teams played a 4-3 D and moved their OLB over the slot back then? Now teams are playing 3-3-5 or 4-2-5.

We could not run the ball in 2016, 2017, or 2019. 2018 was different because we used Dungey in designed runs more often, he stayed healthy the whole year. That opened the dives up. The Baylor system has been crap running the ball for years. Why is that?

Running dives over and over and over when you have 3 OL to drive block 3 D players is the definition of meathead.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Numbers in the box tells them where to run. The box count is different for each team based on how well each team defends the run or defends the parameter.

These are not up the gut plays. Drives me nuts when people say that. Lol. The runner has the ability to run where there’s less defenders. Sometimes it’s in the the inside gaps and some times it’s in the outside gaps. It’s based on his reads. At times the O line are not getting good enough blocks ( not sure if it’s the change in technique). Some times it’s Tucker having trouble finding the holes. The vanilla run calls are not helping. I don’t know why we haven’t ran more gap run plays. Seems like they only come on designed QB runs. That’s an easy tendency that any defense will pick up on.

So Tucker has lost the ability to find a hole? Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying they aren't simple runs up the middle and then saying we are using vanilla run calls?
 

money3189

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So Tucker has lost the ability to find a hole? Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying they aren't simple runs up the middle and then saying we are using vanilla run calls?
Because the play is not designed to just be ran between the guards. Lol. Inside zone doesn’t necessarily mean the run will be in between the tackles and outside zone doesn’t mean the run will be outside the tackles.

I didn’t say Tucker lost his ability to find a hole. For whatever reason the run fits are not there. It’s not always the line on each play. Sometimes it’s the RB. For whatever reason he is having a harder time reading it this year. It could be from the bad blocking angle/techniques, or guys missing their assignments.

If you run inside zone most of the time. Teams get use to it. So you have to add a couple winkles within the play along with a combination of counter, pin and pull, outside zone plays to keep defenses off balance. There’s not a variety of run plays. That’s what I mean by vanilla. That’s what looks different from last year. That along with their angles/foot work on zone plays.
 
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GoSU96

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Because the play is not designed to just be ran between the guards. Lol. Inside zone doesn’t necessarily mean the run will be in between the tackles and outside zone doesn’t mean the run will be outside the tackles.

I didn’t say Tucker lost his ability to find a hole. For whatever reason the run fits are not there. It’s not always the line on each play. Sometimes it’s the RB. For whatever reason he is having a harder time reading it this year. It could be from the bad blocking angle/techniques, or guys missing their assignments.

If you run inside zone most of the time. Teams gets use to it. So you have to add a couple winkles within play along with a combination of counter, pin and pull, outside zone plays to keep defenses off balance. There’s not a variety of run plays. That’s what I mean by vanilla. That’s what looks different from last year. That along with their angles/foot work on zone plays.
Yep
 

Cusefan69

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Was Tucker set deeper last year in the old offense? Maybe giving him an extra step or two to let the blocking evolve? Does Anae run tighter sets?
 

money3189

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Was Tucker set deeper last year in the old offense? Maybe giving him an extra step or two to let the blocking evolve? Does Anae run tighter sets?
That’s not a bad thought. That does make a difference
 
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kcsu

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Was Tucker set deeper last year in the old offense? Maybe giving him an extra step or two to let the blocking evolve? Does Anae run tighter sets?
He might be set a step closer to make it easier to swing him out
 

money3189

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Also patience is a virtue.
Yes. Good point. I’m sure you know but zone run schemes involves the whole unit to be on the same page. Takes a lot of patience, timing, vision. Knowing how long to press, when to cut back. You have to know where the lanes will be. You have to know how each lineman sets his blocks up so you know when to cut back, when to run behind or stretch it out. You need to know when each lineman plans to climb up to a line backer. It’s a rhythm thing.
 

money3189

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We could not run the ball in 2016, 2017, or 2019. 2018 was different because we used Dungey in designed runs more often, he stayed healthy the whole year. That opened the dives up. The Baylor system has been crap running the ball for years. Why is that?

Running dives over and over and over when you have 3 OL to drive block 3 D players is the definition of meathead.
Babers teams have averaged 1900 rush yds per season. 2nd highest of any coach the last 18 years. His teams rushed for more yards than Doug Marrone teams. He's done that without a lot of great lineman.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Babers teams have averaged 1900 rush yds per season. 2nd highest of any coach the last 18 years. His teams rushed for more yards than Doug Marrone teams. He's done that without a lot of great lineman.

We used to run a lot of plays. Our YPC against FBS teams when compared to the rest of the ACC was 14th, 9th, 7th, 9th, 14th, 3rd. Our best YPC RB has been ranked 17th, 7th, 14th, 14th, 10th, and 6th. IMO that is not running the ball well.
 

money3189

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We used to run a lot of plays. Our YPC against FBS teams when compared to the rest of the ACC was 14th, 9th, 7th, 9th, 14th, 3rd. Our best YPC RB has been ranked 17th, 7th, 14th, 14th, 10th, and 6th. IMO that is not running the ball well.
Compared to Acc now? We are normally one of the worse teams in the Acc. So that shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. I compared our running to other SU coaches who have struggled in recent years. SU has had 4 winning seasons in 18 years. It’s not because of Babers run scheme. It’s bigger than that.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Compared to Acc now? We are normally one of the worse teams in the Acc. So that shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. I compared our running to other SU coaches who have struggled in recent years. SU has had 4 winning seasons in 18 years. It’s not because of Babers run scheme. It’s bigger than that.

We ran the ball better in the Shafer years both statistically and IMO.
 

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