I asked before the season if people would be patient with JB this year...

[Cusefan0307]

because I knew it was going to be a rough year, especially offensively due to a lack of offensive talent. I was assured by multiple people that everyone knew this was a developmental year until reinforcements came in next year. Boy you guys were wrong!!!

 

[OttoMets]

I'm sure the 10-1 start got people's hopes up, so that probably burned Boeheim's grace period with some.

However, it'd be nice if the guy who's on record hoping our opponents foolishly try to shoot their way over our zone defense could draw up something different when we're defended by a zone. Watching our guys hoist up threes with no ball movement is like hitting my head against a wall.

 

[Gotothehole]

When you see the results how can you

 

[Cusefan0307]

When you see the results how can you

Because I knew we’d struggle offensively last April. It’s not a surprise to me.

 

[81South]

Because I knew we’d struggle offensively last April. It’s not a surprise to me.

Honest question. Do you get frustrated seeing the same strategy on offense?

 

[Jack Hall]

because I knew it was going to be a rough year, especially offensively due to a lack of offensive talent. I was assured by multiple people that everyone knew this was a developmental year until reinforcements came in next year. Boy you guys were wrong!!!

Devils in the details. Outside of a four game run in 2016, the results since beginning 2015 have not been what most SU fans are accustomed to. Everything i have seen from this forum is this season will be very mediocre and its all about next year with Baz and Carey. Will two freshmen really change everything? Maybe. But think about it, does anyone expect Carey or Hughes to be better than a departing Battle? I dont. That puts a ton of pressure on Baz to single handedly turn things around. In the end i expect next years team to be collectively much better than the last two teams, but if you look at the offensive struggles since 2012 (it boggles my mind how much JB has had to discuss bad O in recent years) there are some red flags even going into next season. I personally think JB is defensively as good (or better) as anyone but...Its pretty clear for JBs offensive philosophy to work he needs a Melo or Dion or or Wes or Mal (in 2nd half of UVa) . Will Baz or someone else provide that next year? Should be interesting!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honest question. Do you get frustrated seeing the same strategy on offense?

Not like everyone else no. I know the only way we can win is if we slow it down.

I also know there’s no offense we can run that is going to turn Dolezaj, Oshae, and Moyer into good shooters. I know there’s no offense that can make Chukwu a post up threat.

I think a positive is we should hope Sidibe is healthy enough to continue to improve and eventually pass Chukwu.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think most people are. Smart and reasonable fans can get frustrated from time to time. And there will always be a few loud people that don’t know anything that come out of the woodwork when times are bad. That’s just one of the universal sports fandom truths.

 

[tbonezone]

40 plus years of total program control buys you no rope.

 

[pearl31]

Honest question. Do you get frustrated seeing the same strategy on offense?

yeah cuz frustrated should mean throwing a JB-sucks tantrum

 

[Cusefan0307]

Devils in the details. Outside of a four game run in 2016, the results since beginning 2015 have not been what most SU fans are accustomed to. Everything i have seen from this forum is this season will be very mediocre and its all about next year with Baz and Carey. Will two freshmen really change everything? Maybe. But think about it, does anyone expect Carey or Hughes to be better than a departing Battle? I dont. That puts a ton of pressure on Baz to single handedly turn things around. In the end i expect next years team to be collectively much better than the last two teams, but if you look at the offensive struggles since 2012 (it boggles my mind how much JB has had to discuss bad O in recent years) there are some red flags even going into next season. I personally think JB is defensively as good (or better) as anyone but...Its pretty clear for JBs offensive philosophy to work he needs a Melo or Dion or or Wes or Mal (in 2nd half of UVa) . Will Baz or someone else provide that next year? Should be interesting!

All of our returning guys will be better and for all the points Tyus scores he does it rather inefficiently.

 

[OrangeDW]

Boeheim was dumb when James Thues was passing to Deshaun Williams. He was smart when Gerry McNamara was passing to Carmelo Anthony.

 

[81South]

Not like everyone else no. I know the only way we can win is if we slow it down.

I also know there’s no offense we can run that is going to turn Dolezaj, Oshae, and Moyer into good shooters. I know there’s no offense that can make Chukwu a Post up threat.

I think a positive is we should hope Sidibe is healthy enough to continue to improve and eventually pass Chukwu.

Thank you. I just wonder if we could mix things up when we see man defense vs just running iso and ball screens for our guards.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think most people are. Smart and reasonable fans can get frustrated from time to time. And there will always be a few loud people that don’t know anything that come out of the woodwork when times are bad. That’s just one of the universal sports fandom truths.

I agree. You were one of the posters I was thinking of when I made this post. I remember you thinking people would be patient.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Well you’re painting generalizations with a pretty broad brush here.

 

[JazzNC]

because I knew it was going to be a rough year, especially offensively due to a lack of offensive talent. I was assured by multiple people that everyone knew this was a developmental year until reinforcements came in next year. Boy you guys were wrong!!!

I agree with you. I didn't think they'd be very good this year. I think we need to be patient. We are a year away. My issue is that I can say the exact same thing about the team... and the perception is completely misconstrued. This team is not talented enough and they need coaching, time to develop chemistry, get stronger, etc.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree. You were one of the posters I was thinking of when I made this post. I remember you thinking people would be patient.

Yeah, I mean...I get being frustrated. These games are a hard watch.

But really...we are really young, really thin, with very little developed talent. We all knew that. It is what it is. We’re gonna nitpick everything we do poorly in every game or just look at the big picture?

I mean...just look at Howard. For all his flaws one of our two guys(sometimes three) that can score. He couldn’t throw a rock in the ocean his first two years. We’ll be better when we have some veteran talent that has gained experience and developed their games...plus a stud freshman or two(?) that can make an instant impact.

 

[pearl31]

I'm sure the 10-1 start got people's hopes up, so that probably burned Boeheim's grace period with some.

However, it'd be nice if the guy who's on record hoping our opponents foolishly try to shoot their way over our zone defense could draw up something different when we're defended by a zone. Watching our guys hoist up threes with no ball movement is like hitting my head against a wall.

I hear you, but just looking at yesterday's game - we were 8/18 from three (45%), which is nearly ideal especially for this offense - and actually against their zone more often than not we got the ball right where we should to a guy (usually Brissett) at the foul line - from there, said player made virtually no successful plays. i.e., no execution at all.
Not trying to defend our mostly abhorrent offense, but yesterday was much more a case of putrid rebounding and players just not making the simplest of basketball plays

 

[Jack Hall]

All of our returning guys will be better and for all the points Tyus scores he does it rather inefficiently.

They should be better but i notice you really didnt answer my question about Carey or Hughes being better than Battle. I doubt many fans expect them to be. Imo we really need either OB or TB to come back; if both leave next season might not be much different. We also need a healthy Sid. But if those moons align next year should be very exciting!

 

[81South]

I agree. You were one of the posters I was thinking of when I made this post. I remember you thinking people would be patient.

We should be more patient...this frickin cold weather messes with our heads sometimes! I know I was somewhat irrational yesterday

 

[pearl31]

We should be more patient...this frickin cold weather messes with our heads sometimes! I know I was somewhat irrational yesterday

yesterday?

 

[Cusefan0307]

They should be better but i notice you really didnt answer my question about Carey or Hughes being better than Battle. I doubt many fans expect them to be. Imo we really need either OB or TB to come back; if both leave next season might not be much different. We also need a healthy Sid. But if those moons align next year should be very exciting!

They don’t have to be better than Battle because the rest of the talent will be better. They are both excellent shooters and fwiw the coaches think Carey may be a one and done. I don’t think Oshae is going anywhere with his 33% shooting.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I've accepted that the offense is dependent on the talent of the individual players. That's why Bazley and Carey are such big recruits. The offense ain't changing under JB, especially when his coaching tree all played for him.

I was frustrated yesterday because we just did not have the same fire as we did early in the year. I'm over it now. It's not surprising we're going to do dumb things. We're still a very young/inexperienced team.

 

[OrangeDW]

They don’t have to be better than Battle because the rest of the talent will be better. They are both excellent shooters and fwiw the coaches think Carey may be a one and done. I don’t think Oshae is going anywhere with his 33% shooting.

Right. Like I said earlier...Howard was not a scorer whatsoever his first two years. Guys like Marek and Moyer will be able to put the ball in the hole down the road, IMO. I think Sidibe already can a bit if healthy. Brissett can become a star. Bazley is not like these freshman. He’s much better and much more ready. We should have more guys that can do something with the ball, including many of this years guys who are just raw and not ready yet.

 

[SWC75]

40 plus years of total program control buys you no rope.

It's funny because Dino Babers' critics would argue he's running out of rope due to a lack of success. previous success should buy you plenty of rope, not eliminate it.

Each team is different, at least in basketball where we can lose people to the pros or to transfers in addition to graduation. This year's team had three guys who had played for us before and only one of those had been a major contributor. What happened in 2015, 2016 or 2017 has nothing to do with this year and next year will have nothing to do with this season.

The arc of the basketball season has been similar to the football season: low expectations but a stretch of quality play that encouraged higher goals, followed by a slump that returned us to the prior analysis, which was now a disappointment.

Jim Boeheim is not above criticism. His increasing conservatism in who he plays and how he has them play late in his career has hurt these teams and his grumpy sarcasm in news conferences hasn't helped. But he's earned plenty of 'rope'. The next coach will have his own set of strengths and weaknesses and this season hasn't played itself out yet. There may be more reassessments to come.