I can't see 9-9 getting it done | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

I can't see 9-9 getting it done

highly unlikely. they have 1.5 good wins - neutral Kentucky and home Michigan. they're very much like an Ol' Miss or Creighton - a high major team that has managed to compile an impressive-looking amount of wins on the surface but with nothing of substance when taking a closer look

Right but if you go by the conference record logic (flawed) they would be in. Syracuse fans would be screaming "We're in" for sure. Regardless, they have a chance to be in with a good stretch the next few games. I'm hoping for the opposite.
 
Right but if you go by the conference record logic (flawed) they would be in. Syracuse fans would be screaming "We're in" for sure. Regardless, they have a chance to be in with a good stretch the next few games. I'm hoping for the opposite.
and you might be forgetting about their home losses to Texas Arlington and Louisiana Tech. OSU has 2 top-100 rpi wins and a very poor RPI - not even bubble worthy right now.

obviously, if they were to take down Mich.St this week things will change
 
We get in if:

A. We Beat NC State and FSU (but lose to UNC)
B. We Beat UNC (then we are 100% in regardless of what happens)
C. We split with NC State and FSU (and lose to UNC) and win one ACC tournament game

Agree with A&B.
C we are more likely than not (But I can't give it the 90%+) -- I think we should, but I think what happens around us that last week (bubble busters) and if you have to leave some room for committee judgment that we may not agree with.
 
Agree with A&B.
C we are more likely than not (But I can't give it the 90%+) -- I think we should, but I think what happens around us that last week (bubble busters) and if you have to leave some room for committee judgment that we may not agree with.
So you guys really think we'd be alright going 1-5 down the stretch with the sole win being UNC?
 
Yep
I hope you'd be right Marsh, but it doesn't seem too inviting to me to be watching Mr. Gumbel that Sunday with that scenario playing out...:eek:
 
I think there are lots of good teams in our resume range. Should be a good tourney and definitely lots of balance. I don't think there will be any 'bad' per se teams in the field.

That being said we need a win or two in the ACC Tourney if we end up .500 in conference. Conference record is not valued as much as people think here especially with unbalanced schedules. Committee members have documented this. Notre Dame will be given a break for games sans Jackson which means our W against them shouldn't be valued as much. Fair and makes sense obviously. We didn't get much done in conference regarding quality wins. Precisely why the debacle on Sat really stings. We have the Duke win which is solid.

Curious what people think about Ohio State. Right now (10-5) they have three games left. MSU twice and Iowa. Let's say they go 1-2. 11-7 in B10. By everyone's conference record logic they should get in but will they? Their conference performance w0uld be similar to ours if they end up 11-7...basically two good wins (one vs Michigan sans LeVert) and a win vs either MSU or Iowa potentially but a bunch of average conference wins. I don't know. I think these are all three difficult games for us coming up. Some work will be need to be done in ACC Tourney to bee safe, regardless.

My assessment has nothing to do with conference record logic.

Even though I constantly repeat 9-9 as the target, it has never been due to the optics about being .500 in the ACC. That is totally irrelevant. I really don't care about any team's conference record in any resume. I have been repeating 9-9 because that was the projected number of wins that gets our RPI down to an acceptable number ( mid 50's to low 60's) for our full resume to get looked at. If we got 8 wins our RPI would be in the 70's.

I believe RPI is a "Look longer at me " number. If you get in the 50's (low 60's) everything will be looked at, and we have some good things on our resume (Namely top 50 wins) Once your RPI is in the 70's less benefit of the doubt may be given (they look for the hole). That is my opinion anyway.

Ohio St --

Not a great chance chance if they go 1-2 the next 3 games. They are 18-10. If they go 1-2, they project to have an RPI in the low 70's as per the table below. That is a number where your negatives may become more important than the positives (and they have one major negative that I am getting to -- and it is a major one).

Even with one win against an elite team, they end up with either a 3-9 or a 4-9 record vs top 50 schools (depending where Michigan ends up). That does not kill you vs other bubble schools - its not great but its respectable..

But this does kill you. Of Ohio St's 18 current wins, ONLY THREE are against top 100 teams. 15 of 18 wins against sub 100 RPI teams. That is why some AAC teams got punished a few years back.


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And it's not just a case of well they have beaten who they played. They haven't. They have 3 bad losses that can't be ignored. 2 were at home, and one was neutral

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Now if they can get to 20-11, RPI around 60, 5 top 50 wins. Everything gets a whole lot brighter, I think they key for them is getting 2 more quality wins somehow.
 

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I'm shocked that OSU is not on people's radar. 2-1 in final 3 and they are automatic. 1-2 and they are very much in play.

If they go 1-2, they will end the regular season with only 4 wins against top 100 teams. With an RPI's in the 70's, with 15 of 19 wins against sub 100 teams (and 3 bad losses), it is incorrect to claim they will be very much in play.
 
Right but if you go by the conference record logic (flawed) they would be in. Syracuse fans would be screaming "We're in" for sure. Regardless, they have a chance to be in with a good stretch the next few games. I'm hoping for the opposite.


It has nothing to do with one team being 9-9 in conference and the other team being 11-7 in conference. Our 19 wins, will have 8 top 100 wins (and just one bad loss). Ohio St would have 4 top 100 wins (15 empty wins), and 3 bad losses. There top 50 wins are really not better in aggregate, if they win 1 more game.

I am not picking and choosing what to look at -- I am focusing on top 50, top 100 wins, and bad losses. We are clearly ahead of Ohio St if both teams have 19 wins.
 
So you guys really think we'd be alright going 1-5 down the stretch with the sole win being UNC?

Based on the resume comparison's I posted above, I would have to say yes. It's an unlikely scenario however - if we finish 1-3, I sure as hell doubt that one win would be against UNC.
 
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I will this about Ohio St however. They have a big advantage for them that other bubble teams do not. 2 Top 25 (marquee) wins opportunities at Home before the end of the season. We have seen enough basketball this year to know it is not impossible.

They go from out of the picture today, to at least being in the discussion with a win. And then probably being on the right side of the discussion with 2 wins.
 
we may get in if we beat unc and lose every other game, but by no means would we be a 100% lock.
 
I will this about Ohio St however. They have a big advantage for them that other bubble teams do not. 2 Top 25 (marquee) wins opportunities at Home before the end of the season. We have seen enough basketball this year to know it is not impossible.

They go from out of the picture today, to at least being in the discussion with a win. And then probably being on the right side of the discussion with 2 wins.


Oh I agree with all of this and the discussion re: OSU. I just think people on this board overvalue conference record. RPI and your Top 25/50/100 wins and losses pretty much tell the whole story. I for sure will be cheering against OSU this week. I always do, regardless. But, I have watched them lately and have been impressed.
 
So you guys really think we'd be alright going 1-5 down the stretch with the sole win being UNC?
Yes. That would be a huge win.
 
Oh I agree with all of this and the discussion re: OSU. I just think people on this board overvalue conference record. RPI and your Top 25/50/100 wins and losses pretty much tell the whole story. I for sure will be cheering against OSU this week. I always do, regardless. But, I have watched them lately and have been impressed.

They are in a "bubble buster" position right now, and as you said playing solidly. They merit watching with what could well be 4 top 25 games in the next 5 games.
 
We don't have to be smart-alecs and/or snarky about it. Yes, I have been impressed with OSU lately considering I have actually watched them. It's no different from pundits here or nationally being impressed with SU beating the BC/Wake/VTs. Obviously, we'll get a true reading of them starting tonight vs MSU.
 
We don't have to be smart-alecs and/or snarky about it. Yes, I have been impressed with OSU lately considering I have actually watched them. It's no different from pundits here or nationally being impressed with SU beating the BC/Wake/VTs. Obviously, we'll get a true reading of them starting tonight vs MSU.
Sorry, didn't mean to be snarky about it. I don't think many have expressed being impressed with BC/Wake/VT types wins - those are simply avoiding bad loss games. But we (and other legit at-large candidates) do have a handful of impressive wins from throughout the season to draw upon, with one or fewer bad losses. OSU is severely lacking with impressive wins and minimal bad losses.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to be snarky about it. I don't think many have expressed being impressed with BC/Wake/VT types wins - those are simply avoiding bad loss games. But we (and other legit at-large candidates) do have a handful of impressive wins from throughout the season to draw upon, with one or fewer bad losses. OSU is severely lacking with impressive wins and minimal bad losses.

I've already addressed OSU's resume as a whole and agree. I just think they are peaking and look good...simple as that. They are young, lost DeAngelo Russell, etc. They get nothing from that freshman monster C Daniel Giddens but another 6-11 guy Trevor Thompson (SO) has been playing well. Lyle, Loving, and Tate are good.
 
I've already addressed OSU's resume as a whole and agree. I just think they are peaking and look good...simple as that. They are young, lost DeAngelo Russell, etc. They get nothing from that freshman monster C Daniel Giddens but another 6-11 guy Trevor Thompson (SO) has been playing well. Lyle, Loving, and Tate are good.
OK but in the process you've also made two claims that don't really hold water... 1) that people are talking up SU's conference record - if anything folks seem to be saying we're lacking in that regard and need to lift it to a minimal 9-9 just to have a chance... and 2) that people are saying BC/Wake/etc wins are impressive - and I haven't seen that at all...
hey I've watched OSU as well in recent weeks - was mildly impressed with their play at home vs Mich, but that was just as much Mich playing poorly for much of the game - and I was also impressed with them back in December vs Kentucky... bottom line, they're not a tourney team barring some miraculous turnaround in the final two weeks
 
I will this about Ohio St however. They have a big advantage for them that other bubble teams do not. 2 Top 25 (marquee) wins opportunities at Home before the end of the season. We have seen enough basketball this year to know it is not impossible.

They go from out of the picture today, to at least being in the discussion with a win. And then probably being on the right side of the discussion with 2 wins.

So you're drawing a distinction between "very much in play" and "being in the discussion"? Got it.
 

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