I don't get the ND hatred here...

[VaSaltine]

I hated them until they joined the ACC. I can't explain it ...it just happened.

 

[billsin01]

Good point - one that I expected to be made.

And it's true, but ND has always been the trail blazer in college athletic greed.

And I think the way ND used the BE is unique to the greedy world of college sports.

ND stands above the others in that category.

So your argument is that had ND decided to go Ivy League at some point near the turn of the 20th century and never really existed as we know them today that college athletics would be far more concerned with the development of true student athletes and other altruistic goals? That's a good point.

Listen, hate ND all you want but "trailblazing in college athletic greed" is where all these schools aspire to be. Otherwise you end up playing catchup all time. Pick your poison.

 

[longtimefan]

Which means what?

So were Duke, USC, Bradley, SMU and many others. They all still belong to the Association of Methodist Colleges.

A response to your post that SU is not the Protestant antithesis to ND. The point being--SU (not uniquely) was founded by a Protestant church; ND was founded by a French priest.

 

[Chip]

In fact, I'd argue the reason ND has it's own network is because of their intense 'hateability' factor.

Yep. Was like how Howard Stern got where he was, the line from the movie. People who hate him listen longer.

So this game will break all TV ratings, then ND will get a huge deal from NBC (or someone), which will lead to more people hating them, which will lead to... Round and round.

Must be nice being ND. I'm glad I was raised a Yankee fan, so I can at least relate in one sport.

 

[RF2044]

Yep. Was like how Howard Stern got where he was, the line from the movie. People who hate him listen longer.

So this game will break all TV ratings, then ND will get a huge deal from NBC (or someone), which will lead to more people hating them, which will lead to... Round and round.

Must be nice being ND. I'm glad I was raised a Yankee fan, so I can at least relate in one sport.

This national championship appearance bought ND at least another decade of football independence--easily. I'd heard grumblings that NBC might not be willing to make the next contract as lucrative for the Domers, but I'm guessing that this season will change that.

 

[billsin01]

Must be nice being ND. I'm glad I was raised a Yankee fan, so I can at least relate in one sport.

I hate the yankees but i'm not a hypocrite b/c they truly are the devil. That's been proven.

 

[sabach]

So your argument is that had ND decided to go Ivy League at some point near the turn of the 20th century and never really existed as we know them today that college athletics would be far more concerned with the development of true student athletes and other altruistic goals? That's a good point.

Listen, hate ND all you want but "trailblazing in college athletic greed" is where all these schools aspire to be. Otherwise you end up playing catchup all time. Pick your poison.

Exactly. Some of the arguments which SU fans make against ND are the very arguments other BE fans make about SU, until those very schools (RU, UL, etc.) get their own chance to jump ship.

 

[billsin01]

This national championship appearance bought ND at least another decade of football independence--easily. I'd heard grumblings that NBC might not be willing to make the next contract as lucrative for the Domers, but I'm guessing that this season will change that.

It's a good time for ND. My brother-in-law is in corporate development there and said they were up, as a whole, 15% year-to-date and had a ton of companies/alumni reaching out to them. They're not stupid, they want tix if this team is actually any good.

 

[longislandcuse]

"Who care what their fans are like."

If no one cared what a team's fans were like, this wouldn't be a topic in the first place.

Their fans root for teams that have been good. This ND holier than thou bs has been going on for a while now, when until this year, they were pretty mediocre at best.

 

[OrangePA]

So your argument is that had ND decided to go Ivy League at some point near the turn of the 20th century and never really existed as we know them today that college athletics would be far more concerned with the development of true student athletes and other altruistic goals? That's a good point.

Listen, hate ND all you want but "trailblazing in college athletic greed" is where all these schools aspire to be. Otherwise you end up playing catchup all time. Pick your poison.

I'm sorry I don't understand your post. Sorry.

Let me say two things.

First, I don't "hate" Notre Dame. I don't "hate" anybody or any school.

Second, there was a time - perhaps you were not aware - I don't know how old you are - when ND would not participate in post-season bowls.

That changed in 1971 when the school agreed to play Texas in the Cotton Bowl.

So, there was a time when ND was truly different.

It's policy on red-shirting, it's NBC contract and it's dealings with the BE reveal it has become - the leader in college greed.

 

[Chip]

Their fans root for teams that have been good. This ND holier than thou bs has been going on for a while now, when until this year, they were pretty mediocre at best.

Alabama played a lot of football after Gene Stallings and before Nick Saban. Your typical Alabama fan during those years is exactly what you're describing before this year for ND. Pretty much what your typical Texas Longhorn fan is like today.

SEC fans might be bizarrely insecure, but they also feel as entitled to 12-0 every season as any entitled fanbase in America.

 

[44cuse]

I've hated ND for a long time because of all the attention they get even when they are down. Other teams are forgotten when they have down periods. Having said that, I'll be rooting for them against Alabama because I hate the SEC even more.

This is almost exactly what I don't get. They aren't forgotten and still get attention because even when they are down they are still relevant. Their fan base and the loyalty and enthusiasm in that base is what makes them that way.

I find that nothing but admirable.

44cuse

 

[Opus]

Now that brought me back.

Ha. I was never a fan of ND but remember watching the ND highlights show Sunday mornings after church. These were the pre ESPN days and cable was maybe 20 channels at the most. Any sports I could find was worth watching, even ND replays.

 

[Toga]

JFK in addressing the NFL Foundation Hall of Fame Banquet - 12/5/61.

I want to express my thanks to you for this award. Politics is an astonishing profession-it has permitted me to go from being an obscure lieutenant serving under General MacArthur to Commander in Chief in 14 years, without any technical competence whatsoever; and it's also enabled me to go from being an obscure member of the junior varsity at Harvard to being an honorary member of the Football Hall of Fame.

Actually, there are not so many differences between politics and football. Some Republicans have been unkind enough to suggest that my election, which was somewhat close, was somewhat similar to the Notre Dame-Syracuse game. But I'm like Notre Dame, we just take it as it comes and we're not giving it back.

 

[br801]

Ha. I was never a fan of ND but remember watching the ND highlights show Sunday mornings after church. These were the pre ESPN days and cable was maybe 20 channels at the most. Any sports I could find was worth watching, even ND replays.

I wasn't an ND fan either, but as you say, college football highlights were hard to come by in those days. I knew Lindsey Nelson more for his Mets baseball work and loved hearing him do the Cotton Bowl telecast every year. Great old school broadcaster. Not many of his kind left, unfortunately.

 

[cto]

My "hatred" began with this.

The following is from Wikipedia.

" In 1961, Notre Dame faced Syracuse at home and trailed, 15–14, with three seconds left to play. A desperation 56-yard field goal attempt fell short as time ran out, and Syracuse appeared to have won the game. But the Orangemen were penalized 15 yards for roughing the placekick holder, and given a second chance with no time showing on the clock, Notre Dame kicker Joe Perkowski drilled a 41-yard field goal for a 17–15 Irish victory. Syracuse immediately cried foul, claiming that under the existing rules, the second kick should not have been allowed because time had expired. It was later determined that the officials had erred in allowing the extra play, but the Irish victory was permitted to stand. The current rule which states that a half cannot end on an accepted defensive foul was implemented as a result of this game."

Saw it on closed circuit TV somewhere on campus. Don't recall where. CTO, were you there? I believe it was Walt Sweeney who was charged with the penalty. I've never rooted for Notre Dame since. Notre Dame is the McCoys to my Hatfield.

Roll Tide!

I saw on a big black and white movie screen somewhere down town. Perhaps at the War Memorial. Very depressing day.

 

[orangecuse]

On a lighter note/assessment, this scene (with some imagination) could universally sum it up. Now, we all know how the story played out, however, in the original director's cut, the opportunist, Jerry (ND) bolts at the end for a better, albeit time being, gig (ACC) and leaves Rod (Big East) out to dry.

 

[cuseguy]

Do they deserve the spot in the title game? Yes. Does that change the fact that I hate them? No. Around the time CTO was an undergrad I'm pretty sure there was a game vs. the Irish in which SU got royally screwed. Some of the more experience SU fans can fill in the details.

My hatred for ND goes back to this game. I was raised to dislike ND. But it goes beyond that. It's an elitist school that thinks it's better than everyone else. The Catholic/Irish hype is just over the top.

 

[sufandu]

This is almost exactly what I don't get. They aren't forgotten and still get attention because even when they are down they are still relevant. Their fan base and the loyalty and enthusiasm in that base is what makes them that way.

I find that nothing but admirable.

44cuse

I'm not talking about bumping into Joe Schmo on the street. I'm talking about the media love affair with them. How many times the last 10+ years have they been ranked high when they hadn't proven anything only to get waxed by a good team in a bowl? Fan base loyalty and enthusiasm shouldn't be reflected in the polls where the "experts" are supposed to try and be objective.

 

[billsin01]

I'm sorry I don't understand your post. Sorry.

Let me say two things.

First, I don't "hate" Notre Dame. I don't "hate" anybody or any school.

Second, there was a time - perhaps you were not aware - I don't know how old you are - when ND would not participate in post-season bowls.

That changed in 1971 when the school agreed to play Texas in the Cotton Bowl.

So, there was a time when ND was truly different.

It's policy on red-shirting, it's NBC contract and it's dealings with the BE reveal it has become - the leader in college greed.

What don't you understand -- you said you ND was only out for itself which just seems funny to me since it's pretty clear that every school is out for itself. And, you at least seem to be painting the portrait of ND as the sole (or primary) reason college athletics have given in to greed. My point is simply that had ND never existed, the same greed would have eventually surfaced. It's naive -- incredibly naive -- to think otherwise. My point, in fact, is that ND has been ahead of the curve in terms of marketing and TV rights and generating revenue and that it should be applauded or envied, but not vilified for simply doing those things better than the vast majority of their counterparts. One way it is certainly "different" -- if it is that important to be different -- is that it clearly has generating revenue down to a science.

But to your last set of points -- it seems to me we've adopted ND's policy on redshirting and, if they're up front about it, I don't even get what's bad about it. You have to earn your fifth year -- so what? You still get four years to graduate and prove yourself. That seems shrewd and fair more than unfair or nefarious in some way.

NBC contract? So if NBC walked in and offered SU that deal, the orange wouldn't take it? Or they wouldn't have taken it our sought it whenever ND initially agreed to it?

But, above all else, ND is still significantly different than almost every athletic program out there. I don't know if they've softened admissions -- and frankly I don't care if they did -- but at one point when I was following their recruiting more closely in the late 90s almost every kid they signed had an SAT of 1000+ (that was the old 1600 scale). That's a full 200 points better than a bunch of the kids the Cuse was signing up.

On top of that the recruits are given zero exceptions to the overall liberal arts curriculum. That means they are taking upper level history, philosophy, theology, statistics or some math class and science. That happens nowhere other than maybe like Vandy, Stanford, Northwestern, etc.

I mean, ND is no different than other schools in that they try to do most everything within their power to succeed and make as much money as possible. So I'd suggest that it's mostly jealousy of the success ND has had (financially) or some nostalgic view of "the good ol days" that drives your distaste for the Irish. Not some failing or unconscionable behavior on their part.

 

[Townie72]

A response to your post that SU is not the Protestant antithesis to ND. The point being--SU (not uniquely) was founded by a Protestant church; ND was founded by a French priest.

Yes, yes , yes ... what you said is correct.

But the idea of SU being the "antithesis" or "opposite" of ND because it was founded by another religious denomination stretches the definition of antithesis beyond anything I've ever heard.

The two schools are hardly "opposites" and that's what "antithesis" means. Both are private universities founded by religious institutions that are both members of the same athletic conference for all sports but football. They are similar in size. Do these two schools seem opposite to you?

A better case for an antithesis for ND or SU might be Army or Navy (i.e. US Government schools designed exclusively to train military officers)... but even then there are so many similarities.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

They won their NC game slot on the field. If we had won 12 games the way they did ... we'd all be cheering.

Okay, they may (or may not) get smooshed by Bama, but they won the right to play in the game.

It's because ND sucks. Always. They are the team beyond all others that I hate. May they all get herpes tomorrow.

 

[DoctorBombay]

ND, like the Dallas Cowboys, NY Yankees, LA Lakers, and Montreal Canadiens, STILL gets hype even when they absolutely suck. These franchises have a history that transcends any of their current records. That's the way it is, was, and always will be.
As a Mets/Giants fan, I accept this, and it feels doubly satisfying when these teams lose to anyone, especially to one of my teams.
ND has been mediocre for years, as has Dallas and Montreal. Yet, they still get exclusive TV deals, modern state of the art stadiums built for them, and constant mention from the media.
Also, when the franchises FINALLY get a team that actually wins something and lives up to the hype, it can become unbearable. Consequently, all opposing fans continue to cheer against them & keep hoping they don't make a come back.

 

[memcorsu]

1. They are French not Irish (liars)(not a fan of the French nor are they fans of my type of people)
2. Arrogance
3. Cover up of rapes (Penn St. kind of scandal somewhere in their history would not surprise me)
4. Cover up of murder
5. Ishaq at 4 AM
6. Media bias
7. Skip Holtz
8. Football Jesus
9. Brian Kelly
10. Did I mention Skip?
11. Freaking Stupid Leprechaun is the most obnoxious mascot
12. History of ND jumping teams when the team won against a ranked opponent and ND played an unranked opponent
13. Jack Cooley
14. Mike Brey
15. Did I mention Skip or Brian
16. ND fans
17. Not joining a conference in football and getting away with it
18. The fact that during playoff being set up, 10 other ADs and then NDs, if they don't join a conference then why should they be there?
19. Jimmy Clausen
20. Golden Tate
21. Jaron Jones

Do I need anything else?

 

[Champ]

I'm Irish and Catholic and loathe ND

Agreed, real Irishmen don't root for ND.