I learned nothing from watching that game.

[RF2044]

I agree with all this but I don't see Grant playing in every game. I think the rotation will feature a heavier dose of Coleman as he adjusts (though probably not quite as many minutes as a lot of folks here are projecting) and some sort of a role for Cooney. Maybe he's the half-guy in a 7.5-man rotation or perhaps he's a true 8th guy who legitimately compliments the starting guards. I see Grant having a really tough time doing enough to steal minutes from Fair or Southerland.

I thought the same thing before seeing Grant in the two preseason games. I expected going into the season that he'd get MCW-type of inconsistent minutes this year, but I think he's too good not to play.

No argument on him being the 9th man, however.

Cooney has to play--there are only three guards on the roster so there is no alternative. I don't read much into his performance yesterday--frosh playing in his first game against a ranked team = not much PT. MCW and Triche are both going to play more than 30, but that still leaves minutes for Cooney, who I'd expect to get better once he gets a little more PT under his belt.

 

[GonzoInMD]

I don't read anything into Cooney's minutes in yesterday's game. His strength is the 3. Under the conditions in which the game was played, that strength became a liability.

 

[orangecuse]

I was really impressed with Keita yesterday. His rebounding and defense were great? It appears that he's become stronger and I think the issue with his hand is finally behind him. He only had one official block, but it seemed like he was altering tons of shots. That's exactly what we need out of him.

Well, according to Enberg, Keita, with his length and athleticism, would be starting for 99% of the teams in the country...he really said that! :crazy: I love Baye and the effort he always brings, but 99% of the teams in the country...hardly. It made me utter his very stale & stagnant 'oh my!'

 

[br801]

I don't know. I think it's early to say that. True, JB's bench gets shorter in real games, but but I think the younger guys (Coleman and Cooney in particular) will get their chances to earn his trust. They may not do it, and we're left with basically 6 (keita/christmas/southerland/triche/mcw/Fair) with a smallish dose of Coleman and scraps for Cooney. But they will have an opportunity the next couple months -- just not vs. real teams in the opener.

I don't agree with that conclusion. We were playing our first game against a ranked opponent under challenging conditions--I'm not surprised that our three frosh [Coleman, Grant, Cooney] all got limited minutes. All three are capable of contributing much more than they showed yesterday.

Now that this game is in our rear view mirror, I'd expect the early portion of our schedule to serve as tune of games to help get those guys comfortable. All three will play important roles this year. I'd be surprised if we don't go 9 deep every game [with Grant being the 9th guy].

I do agree that JB will play nine for legitimate minutes in less competitive games (and that Cooney, Coleman and Grant will get their chance to earn regular rotation minutes) but I believe we ultimately will see a much shorter rotation in competitive games compared to last season. How short it will be, I'm not sure. But I wouldn't be surprised if it often winds up being two of the three bigs (depending on match-ups or who is playing effectively) plus the core of MCW, Triche, CJ and Southy, with Cooney playing only sparingly.

I think yesterday was a sneak preview because of the opponent. Normally we don't see that kind of team this early in the year and people look at playing time and rotation length in the non-conference games and expect it to carry over into the conference games, only to be disappointed when JB finalizes his "big game" rotation.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Well, according to Enberg, Keita, with his length and athleticism, would be starting for 99% of the teams in the country...he really said that! :crazy: I love Baye and the effort he always brings, but 99% of the teams in the country...hardly. It made me utter his very stale & stagnant 'oh my!'

i think he meant 47%...oh wait, the was something else.

 

[billsin01]

I do agree that JB will play nine for legitimate minutes in less competitive games (and that Cooney, Coleman and Grant will get their chance to earn regular rotation minutes) but I believe we ultimately will see a much shorter rotation in competitive games compared to last season. How short it will be, I'm not sure. But I wouldn't be surprised if it often winds up being two of the three bigs (depending on match-ups or who is playing effectively) plus the core of MCW, Triche, CJ and Southy, with Cooney playing only sparingly.

I think yesterday was a sneak preview because of the opponent. Normally we don't see that kind of team this early in the year and people look at playing time and rotation length in the non-conference games and expect it to carry over into the conference games, only to be disappointed when JB finalizes his "big game" rotation.

Yeah, I think this is the most likely scenario. My only point was that I think we really don't know what cooney/coleman might bring. Grant is a possibility but less so b/c of who's in front of him.

I also think it could be one of those years when JB just loves his starters and what the guys on the bench can do is largely irrelevant. I mean, Triche has logged more than 2,600 minutes, Fair close to 1600 minutes in two years, and Keita/southerland have been steady contributors for the past two seasons. Add in the fact that Xmas and MCW have pretty solid experience and a bunch of potential -- it might just be one of those years.

My guess is Coleman actually gets steady playing time throughout the BE and we see him around 20 mpg, Keita a shade under 20 (15-17) and Christmas at 25-27. Then BT/Southerland/MCW/Fair all over 25, with three of the four over 30. Cooney plays the role of the half man in the 7.5-man rotation. That's my guess.

 

[br801]

Yeah, I think this is the most likely scenario. My only point was that I think we really don't know what cooney/coleman might bring. Grant is a possibility but less so b/c of who's in front of him.

I also think it could be one of those years when JB just loves his starters and what the guys on the bench can do is largely irrelevant. I mean, Triche has logged more than 2,600 minutes, Fair close to 1600 minutes in two years, and Keita/southerland have been steady contributors for the past two seasons. Add in the fact that Xmas and MCW have pretty solid experience and a bunch of potential -- it might just be one of those years.

My guess is Coleman actually gets steady playing time throughout the BE and we see him around 20 mpg, Keita a shade under 20 (15-17) and Christmas at 25-27. Then BT/Southerland/MCW/Fair all over 25, with three of the four over 30. Cooney plays the role of the half man in the 7.5-man rotation. That's my guess.

As you say, I think this will be a year when JB loves his starters and experienced guys. I don't see how MCW and Triche don't log minutes well north of 30 in most BE games (hard to imagine Cooney playing more than 10 mpg in big spots, and I'm still not sold on Southy at the 2 against solid backcourts). I also think CJ will be a 35 mpg guy (as he often was last year in big games) and that Southy will continue to develop and be hard to keep off the floor.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

As you say, I think this will be a year when JB loves his starters and experienced guys. I don't see how MCW and Triche don't log minutes well north of 30 in most BE games (hard to imagine Cooney playing more than 10 mpg in big spots, and I'm still not sold on Southy at the 2 against solid backcourts). I also think CJ will be a 35 mpg guy (as he often was last year in big games) and that Southy will continue to develop and be hard to keep off the floor.

First, I think DC2 will be a starter here his entire career, but beyond that will have to earn his time. He follows in the line of Fab and Rak. This game does not change my belief that he will play more than the other 2 did their frosh years.

I think Cooney will see more time this year. He needs to earn JBs trust. Plus I think he is just getting back into game shape. And with the team concept deliberately not shooting 3s part of Whitehots appeal was taken away. Dirty made me cringe at the 2, and I do not think that he is anywhere near the answer there.

This game showed our floor in terms of talent. SU can roll out an experienced lineup with BT (sr), MCW (so), CJ (jr), Dirty (sr), and BMK (jr). That is a lot of experience. And it showed! The more disciplined, intelligent, experienced team secured a relatively easy victory over a talented team.

To the OP this game confirms my earlier belief that this team is not going to be the one that has the early season hiccups. Yes, the team can and will get better as the frosh learn their roles. But that experienced floor is there and it is good.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Well, according to Enberg, Keita, with his length and athleticism, would be starting for 99% of the teams in the country...he really said that! :crazy: I love Baye and the effort he always brings, but 99% of the teams in the country...hardly. It made me utter his very stale & stagnant 'oh my!'

First, I believe he said 90 percent. And there is actual merit to that observation. There are over 300 D1 teams, so are there really more than 30 that wouldn't be starting BMK? SU is ranked number 9, and DC2 is getting the token start. BMK is playing better right now - witness who was in at the end. And I still don't know who SDSU's center is, but I wouldn't have traded with BMK yesterday, and SDSU is number 20 in the nation.

There aren't that many great centers around. 7 footers go early. Fab and his 8 ppg got him a 1st round selection, ranking around number 3 or 4.

It really doesn't sound like you love BMK, let alone understand how vital he was in securing this victory.

 

[orangecuse]

First, I believe he said 90 percent. And there is actual merit to that observation. There are over 300 D1 teams, so are there really more than 30 that wouldn't be starting BMK? SU is ranked number 9, and DC2 is getting the token start. BMK is playing better right now - witness who was in at the end. And I still don't know who SDSU's center is, but I wouldn't have traded with BMK yesterday, and SDSU is number 20 in the nation.

There aren't that many great centers around. 7 footers go early. Fab and his 8 ppg got him a 1st round selection, ranking around number 3 or 4.

It really doesn't sound like you love BMK, let alone understand how vital he was in securing this victory.

Ok Dr. Phil. Thanks for the psycho analysis...I thought I heard 99%, maybe he did say 90 as you believe. Either way, I thought it was a bit of stretch to say he would start for 99% of the teams out there...90 could still be a bit high as well. It doesn't really matter anyway since your argument is pure conjecture, a hypothetical which can never be proven. I just never heard anyone say something that I thought was a bit sensational/exaggerated about Baye, that's it, nothing more. Many here have eluded that Baye is a fundamental type system player, so I do not know if that equates on plane to 90-99% of the other programs out there.

I'm not sure how you came up with the interpretation that my comment suggested he wasn't important to our victory or our team, other than you attempting to convince yourself of your own thinking and subsequent analysis.

FWIW, Baye, to my knowledge, is 6'10" not a legit 7 footer...but it works for your attempted argument.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Ok Dr. Phil. Thanks for the psycho analysis...I thought I heard 99%, maybe he did say 90 as you believe. Either way, I thought it was a bit of stretch to say he would start for 99% of the teams out there...90 could still be a bit high as well. It doesn't really matter anyway since your argument is pure conjecture, a hypothetical which can never be proven. I just never heard anyone say something that I thought was a bit sensational/exaggerated about Baye, that's it, nothing more. Many here have eluded that Baye is a fundamental type system player, so I do not know if that equates on plane to 90-99% of the other programs out there.

I'm not sure how you came up with the interpretation that my comment suggested he wasn't important to our victory or our team, other than you attempting to convince yourself of your own thinking and subsequent analysis.

FWIW, Baye, to my knowledge, is 6'10" not a legit 7 footer...but it works for your attempted argument.

You do realize that your post sounded like you were ragging on Enberg for praising BMK, don't you? The guys point you seemed to be ridiculing was that BMK was good, starter good. Enberg was pointing out via his observations that SU is stacked in the front court if BMK is the backup. And he is right.

Do you think JB would have employed such an aggressive zone if BMK weren't available? Maybe it's about time you started hearing people praise BMK, especially if he keeps his play up.

Just because someone is a fundamental system player does not mean by their junior year they can't be in the top 10%. Some people seem to get so attached to the star system it seems to affect their analysis of a persons play 3 years later.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't agree with that conclusion. We were playing our first game against a ranked opponent under challenging conditions--I'm not surprised that our three frosh [Coleman, Grant, Cooney] all got limited minutes. All three are capable of contributing much more than they showed yesterday.

Now that this game is in our rear view mirror, I'd expect the early portion of our schedule to serve as tune of games to help get those guys comfortable. All three will play important roles this year. I'd be surprised if we don't go 9 deep every game [with Grant being the 9th guy].

We've only got three until Arkansas; I'll be interested to see what the rotation looks like down there.

Grant actually looked better than the other two yesterday. A little lost on defense, but decent. Trouble is, the inn's full at his position.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't read anything into Cooney's minutes in yesterday's game. His strength is the 3. Under the conditions in which the game was played, that strength became a liability.

That's true, but Cooney's hook came after two errors - dogging it after the ball that Triche saved at midcourt and allowing a three-point play opportunity with a weak foul - weren't related to the atmosphere. Those are the sorts of things that could keep him off the court this year. And that'll be problematic, without any other real reserve guards.

 

[orangecuse]

You do realize that your post sounded like you were ragging on Enberg for praising BMK, don't you? The guys point you seemed to be ridiculing was that BMK was good, starter good. Enberg was pointing out via his observations that SU is stacked in the front court if BMK is the backup. And he is right.

Do you think JB would have employed such an aggressive zone if BMK weren't available? Maybe it's about time you started hearing people praise BMK, especially if he keeps his play up.

Just because someone is a fundamental system player does not mean by their junior year they can't be in the top 10%. Some people seem to get so attached to the star system it seems to affect their analysis of a persons play 3 years later.

I guess so...it's how you interpreted it, although my intent was not in anyway to disparage Baye, just that I thought it was an exaggerated comment in his attempt to add to all the hoopla and nastalgia of yesterday's event.

The fact is is that Enberg hasn't broadcasted an SU game in recent years, maybe ever, I don't recall. He is not familiar with our current team(s), nor its makeup, etc. just some script he was given. A true Freshman and a relatively green (from a minutes standpoint) sophomore play ahead of him. Baye is a junior and a role player, he will most likely be that next year as well. That doesn't mean he can't be appreciated for the efforts and contributions he makes while in the game, I just said I love the effort he always brings to the table, so I have not only heard the praise...

Again, no way to answer your hypothetical, at least not accurately. One thing is for sure, we would still play zone and just utilize, rotate the guys we have. Isn't that what makes our system so effective, the versatility of our players? And, if Baye wasn't available, then maybe some other scholarship player would be on the roster who could contribute in a similar fashion, who knows?

We have traditionally been a system program, one in which I prefer over the one/two and doners as I'm not a big fan of that...except for Carmelo of course.

 

[All4SU]

These games are fun and a spectacle. They should count as exhibitions though. These stats should not count. After watching the game, I find it difficult to assess how much of what happened on the defensive end was our team causing havoc vs the conditions causing havoc...Of course its a combo of both, but really, a team that needs to hit threes to win has no chance in such a game.

hard to tell whether turnovers were due to poor play, good defense, or crap conditions.

It was a fun game and all, but anyone that thinks they can really guage something about the team from it are sort of off base.

Agreed. Thought the same thing during the game. Glad SU won.