I like seeing Cooney put the ball on the floor.

[tbonezone]

cooney might want to practice finishing with the off hand this summer. his drives tend to look all herkyjerky cuz he's twisting hard to get his right hand free. yesterday was a prime example.
also might want to work on his jumpshot. just saying.

 

[OrangeMojo]

What a stupid thought.

agree - kid will be there 3 more years, will improve and relax as he matures and will be a very solid role player his Jr & Sr seasons. Rautins basically stunk his first two seasons but it sure was great he hadn't transferred out for those last two seasons

 

[Townie72]

What a stupid thought.

Excuse me?

"Stupid" is it?

My assessment after watching the kid closely this year is that he just isn't a good enough player to contribute at SU. And IMHO he's unlikely to get all that much better. He isn't the outside shooter anyone had hoped and he has no handle. The game at his level appears to be too fast for him and as a result he's frequently off-balance trying to catch up. He's only on the floor this year to give one of our only two guards a blow. Or to boost the fouls count when we want to get the other team in the bonus so they can start shooting fouls.

He'd probably have a great career at William and Mary.

It was worth a try to recruit him and maybe we could have used a designated three-point shooter (If he could shoot like other designated three point shooters)

Time to recruit over him and move ahead.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Excuse me?

"Stupid" is it?

My assessment after watching the kid closely this year is that he just isn't a good enough player to contribute at SU. And IMHO he's unlikely to get all that much better. He isn't the outside shooter anyone had hoped and he has no handle. The game at his level appears to be too fast for him and as a result he's frequently off-balance trying to catch up. He's only on the floor this year to give one of our only two guards a blow. Or to boost the fouls count when we want to get the other team in the bonus so they can start shooting fouls.

He'd probably have a great career at William and Mary.

It was worth a try to recruit him and maybe we could have used a designated three-point shooter (If he could shoot like other designated three point shooters)

Time to recruit over him and move ahead.

I thought it was pretty stupid as well. Yeah, your points prove he will never likely be a star here, but do we have 4 seasoned guard recruits coming in next year that I don't know about? We need him for a whole bunch of reasons including the fact that we are losing our two starters this year. And maybe could use some players in practice that are somewhat decent.

 

[Townie72]

I love how people get bent out of shape if anyone dares point out that someone like Triche is playing poorly, but it's fair game to basically say that Cooney sucks. Cooney will be a fine role player down the road. He does enough good things that he's ok right now.

Triche does a lot of bad stuff like lazy passes to JS at the top of the key that are picked off and turn into dunks at the other end.

But he also does a lot of great stuff to offset this. But the critics of Triche only seem to see the mistakes.

Cooney seems to have two modes; just surviving out there and shooting air balls.

Without three really solid guard out there, SU doesn't need and can't really use a three point shooter role player A role Cooney has shown no real talent at.

 

[44cuse]

He can, surprisingly, get to the rim pretty well, and if he were to get fouled he's a good free throw shooter. This may help him get better long range looks, also.

It's amazing what happens when you put the ball on the floor.

44cuse

 

[ImperialOrange]

I would like to see him get ~10 mins per game just for the simple fact that giving our other guards 2 1/2 minutes off each half to catch their breathe makes them better. If he contributes anything more than hustle plays it's a bonus at this point.

 

[Townie72]

I thought it was pretty stupid as well. Yeah, your points prove he will never likely be a star here, but do we have 4 seasoned guard recruits coming in next year that I don't know about? We need him for a whole bunch of reasons including the fact that we are losing our two starters this year. And maybe could use some players in practice that are somewhat decent.

So if I read your post correctly, the reason we need him is that we don't have any alternatives this year and appear to have none on the horizon? And that he's a good practice player?

What you fail to say is that he is any good this year. Nor do you claim he's bound to be better next year. This is the "warm body" approach to team building.

Maybe so. In fact, probably so. That's a sad commentary and not good news for our first year in the ACC.

I wish the kid were GMac. I really do. I'm an SU fan. I take no joy in this. But he isn't a shadow of GMac.

 

[JoeSU]

I thought he played more than adequately. Was good with the ball, hustled on D, got over the top of the outside screens. He did OK.

I thought so too, but after his last ill-advised shot (or maybe it was a bad pass), I said to my son "Boeheim's going to yank him" and as I spoke the words MCW checked-in at the scorer's table.
Cooney has to remember his role and not try to do too much. It would be great if he would hit a couple 3s, but he's been shooting air balls all season, and I would rather see someone else (like Southerland or Fair) taking those shots. Yesterday he smartly realized he could beat his man off the dribble, which is great, but I think he got a little carried away.

 

[oli44]

Excuse me?

"Stupid" is it?

My assessment after watching the kid closely this year is that he just isn't a good enough player to contribute at SU. And IMHO he's unlikely to get all that much better. He isn't the outside shooter anyone had hoped and he has no handle. The game at his level appears to be too fast for him and as a result he's frequently off-balance trying to catch up. He's only on the floor this year to give one of our only two guards a blow. Or to boost the fouls count when we want to get the other team in the bonus so they can start shooting fouls.

He'd probably have a great career at William and Mary.

It was worth a try to recruit him and maybe we could have used a designated three-point shooter (If he could shoot like other designated three point shooters)

Time to recruit over him and move ahead.

He's a freshman and he's adjusting to the speed of the game. This isn't unusual for most freshman. His shot will be fine with time and game repetitions.

3 pt shooting as a freshman
Shumpert 27-93
Nichols 17-72
Scoop - 5-18
Autry 26-82

I'll never understand the overreaction to players during/after their freshman year. For most guys, it takes a couple years before you really know what you have. They don't have 1 returning guard next year and people are pushing him out the door. Ugh.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So if I read your post correctly, the reason we need him is that we don't have any alternatives this year and appear to have none on the horizon? And that he's a good practice player?

What you fail to say is that he is any good this year. Nor do you claim he's bound to be better next year. This is the "warm body" approach to team building.

Maybe so. In fact, probably so. That's a sad commentary and not good news for our first year in the ACC.

I wish the kid were GMac. I really do. I'm an SU fan. I take no joy in this. But he isn't a shadow of GMac.

So then your take is that if he is no GMac we ought to bid him farewell and good luck in the mid-major land. You must have been a treat to listen to during the early years of Andy's career. I'm not saying he's going to be another Andy, but just because he's not Gmac doesn't mean we should toss him aside.

At the worst, he's going to be a guy who has been there before so he can help mentor the rookies next year and calm them down in pressure situations like the semi-finals of the conference tourney. At the best, well, let's not get that far.

And I have no reason to believe he won't be better next year. That kind of goes without saying.

 

[Townie72]

He's a freshman and he's adjusting to the speed of the game. This isn't unusual for most freshman. His shot will be fine with time and game repetitions.

3 pt shooting as a freshman
Shumpert 27-93
Nichols 17-72
Scoop - 5-18
Autry 26-82

I'll never understand the overreaction to players during/after their freshman year. For most guys, it takes a couple years before you really know what you have. They don't have 1 returning guard next year and people are pushing him out the door. Ugh.

First of all, he's a Redshirt Freshman, not a true Freshman

Secondly, none of the players you listed was recruited to be just a three point shooter. They had a lot of other skills and attributes.

Third, whether his shot improves to where he's a real threat has yet to be proven. We will see. I guess.

lLst year, when MCW was a frosh, he made mistakes but there were "flashes of brilliance" where we could see the promise.

I may have missed them, but I haven't seen any of these "flashes" from Cooney.

 

[newmexicuse]

I actually dread when he makes his first shot because it is invariably followed by three or four misses. If he misses his first shot then he probably won't jack up any more. This is not intended as a knock on the kid...it is just the way it has been all season long, at least against better competition.

 

[oli44]

First of all, he's a Redshirt Freshman, not a true Freshman

Secondly, none of the players you listed was recruited to be just a three point shooter. They had a lot of other skills and attributes.

Third, whether his shot improves to where he's a real threat has yet to be proven. We will see. I guess.

lLst year, when MCW was a frosh, he made mistakes but there were "flashes of brilliance" where we could see the promise.

I may have missed them, but I haven't seen any of these "flashes" from Cooney.

No, you probably didn't miss any "flashes of brilliance" from Cooney . There haven't been many. There weren't many from Shumpert, Rautins, Duany, Janulius, KJ, Southerland, Sims, Hopkins, Pace, Burgan, etc, etc their freshman years' either but all ended up as quality 4 years players. Just because someone isn't a two year and done lottery pick doesn't mean they can't be a valuable contributors.

 

[orangenirvana]

Excuse me?

"Stupid" is it?

My assessment after watching the kid closely this year is that he just isn't a good enough player to contribute at SU. And IMHO he's unlikely to get all that much better. He isn't the outside shooter anyone had hoped and he has no handle. The game at his level appears to be too fast for him and as a result he's frequently off-balance trying to catch up. He's only on the floor this year to give one of our only two guards a blow. Or to boost the fouls count when we want to get the other team in the bonus so they can start shooting fouls.

He'd probably have a great career at William and Mary.

It was worth a try to recruit him and maybe we could have used a designated three-point shooter (If he could shoot like other designated three point shooters)

Time to recruit over him and move ahead.

Yep. Extremely stupid.

Cooney's problems are in his head. His offensive struggles have nothing to do with physical ability. He is an asset on defense due to his lateral quickness and natural strength. He is much more physically talented than guards over the years who eventually transferred to lower level programs like David Patrick, Tony Bland, James Thues, and Mookie Jones.

He took a year off and gets very nervous in games. Your statement "the game at his level appears to be too fast for him" is on the money, but that's not indicative of someone who can't hack it at this level...it's simply someone who needs time to grow and mature.

I'm sure back in the Fall of 2005 you knew Andy Rautins would finish his career as one of the most valuable players in the entire country.

Cooney will be fine.

 

[orangenirvana]

I wish the kid were GMac. I really do. I'm an SU fan. I take no joy in this. But he isn't a shadow of GMac.

So because he's not GMac, he should transfer?

BTW - Cooney's ceiling is much higher than McNamara's.

 

[Townie72]

Yep. Extremely stupid.

Cooney's problems are in his head. His offensive struggles have nothing to do with physical ability. He is an asset on defense due to his lateral quickness and natural strength. He is much more physically talented than guards over the years who eventually transferred to lower level programs like David Patrick, Tony Bland, James Thues, and Mookie Jones.

He took a year off and gets very nervous in games. Your statement "the game at his level appears to be too fast for him" is on the money, but that's not indicative of someone who can't hack it at this level...it's simply someone who needs time to grow and mature.

I'm sure back in the Fall of 2005 you knew Andy Rautins would finish his career as one of the most valuable players in the entire country.

Cooney will be fine.

I'd call that "blind faith" ... but what do I know, I'm stupid

 

[tbonezone]

"Cooney's ceiling is much higher than McNamara's."

yes. maybe. but his basement also seems to have a subterranean crawl space where shooters go to die.

 

[orangenirvana]

I'd call that "blind faith" ... but what do I know, I'm stupid

There, there. No one called you stupid. I called your thought stupid. I'm sure your next thought will be much smarter.

 

[LetMeIn]

I'd call that "blind faith" ... but what do I know, I'm stupid

How many wins do you have as a coach? How many four year players have you developed over the past 37 years?
For someone who is awful quick to point to the wins argument whenever someone points out a JB strategy to disagree with, you sure dont have much faith in his ability to develop players.

Cooney is going to be fine. He shot hasn't looked great this year, but he has definitely shown signs of life as the season has progressed. He has a lot more athletic ability than people realize. Maybe he was a bit over sold to us a shooter, but he has scads of potential. I for one think JB and his staff know what they are doing. He is closing in on 940 wins after all. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to tell him how to coach his team.

 

[Townie72]

So because he's not GMac, he should transfer?

BTW - Cooney's ceiling is much higher than McNamara's.

Ahhhh, potential.

The great mirage of home. An oasis shimmering on the distance.

Suggesting that Cooney could be better than GMac? I think you are starting to leave the tracks on that one.

I really wanna believe. I just don't.

 

[Townie72]

How many wins do you have as a coach? How many four year players have you developed over the past 37 years?
For someone who is awful quick to point to the wins argument whenever someone points out a JB strategy to disagree with, you sure dont have much faith in his ability to develop players.

Cooney is going to be fine. He shot hasn't looked great this year, but he has definitely shown signs of life as the season has progressed. He has a lot more athletic ability than people realize. Maybe he was a bit over sold to us a shooter, but he has scads of potential. I for one think JB and his staff know what they are doing. He is closing in on 340 wins after all. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to tell him how to coach his team.

Not every well Exxon drills is a gusher.

I never said that JB was perfect. I do maintain that he's forgotten more about basketball than 99% of the his critics will ever know. And that by and large their ideas on how the team can be improved are mostly stuff they have learned by listening to Dick Vitale. Some less generous that I might even call them "stupid". But not me.

No one can tell how all players are going to do in college. World beaters in high school become duds in college. Many of them are great surprises. Sometimes its a good surprise. Sometimes it isn't.

 

[Guinness]

How many wins do you have as a coach? How many four year players have you developed over the past 37 years?
For someone who is awful quick to point to the wins argument whenever someone points out a JB strategy to disagree with, you sure dont have much faith in his ability to develop players.

Cooney is going to be fine. He shot hasn't looked great this year, but he has definitely shown signs of life as the season has progressed. He has a lot more athletic ability than people realize. Maybe he was a bit over sold to us a shooter, but he has scads of potential. I for one think JB and his staff know what they are doing. He is closing in on 940 wins after all. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to tell him how to coach his team.

Wish I could like this more than once.

 

[Townie72]

Let's review the bidding.

Actually, what we have is a difference of opinion on this.

I voiced my opinion. I don't think it's so clear that I'm wrong or that others on here that agree with me are wrong that it should be dismissed as "stupid". From what I can tell the case for Cooney actually contributing next years isn't based on what we see, but rather faith in the future.

"Other players have improved, why not Cooney?" is the logic. Of course there's no list of players who didn't improve or improved only a little bit.

Cooney, in my opinion, needs to make a huge improvement. If he doesn't and if he has to play because we have no other answer, we are going to have a very tough first year in the ACC. The ACC has a ton of quick guards and they'll be on him like a duck on a june bug.

Nobody knows how much improvement he is going to make. So no ones projections are stupid.

 

[LetMeIn]

Wish I could like this more than once.

I kind of wish I could take it back. I am all hopped up on cold medicine and caffeine right now. Apparently that turns me into a bit of a .

Having said that, I do stand by the general premise of my post which is that I believe that Cooney will improve and that I find it a little odd that one of JB's staunchest defenders on this board has so little faith in his ability to help players develop.

I also agree with Townie that no one should have called his opinion stupid. It was just a tad irrational. I think we all agree that Cooney's continued improvement is pivotal for this team next year.
Kumbaya