I love how Dino is throwing some zingers about $$$

[OttoMets]

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but the day Syracuse University pays $250,000 for a running backs coach is a bad day for Syracuse University.

 

[PhatOrange]

Larry Porter was making 279K for UNC. Porter is consider an ELITE recruiter and top notch RB coach. I haven't been able to find what his new Auburn deal is. If Hart is making anywhere near this much money he's being way over paid and his buddy with the checkbook hooked him up.

 

[upperdeck]

Has Hart actually recruiting a single top notch player yet in his career? why would they pay him crazy money off his track record anyway? And why the need to go over the top by so much? wouldnt half as much still have been a huge raise?

 

[billsin01]

That's not the right question to ask. The right question to ask is "are we paying fair market value for someone of that experience level and skill?"

There's no proof that Mike Hart is worth what Indiana is paying him. In fact, given our running game last season...

Yeah I don't really care about Mike hart specifically. Meant that I interpret his statement as a broader comment on budgeting for staff. And that's not a new problem.

 

[billsin01]

I think it is VERY difficult at the start of year two to match an 'enormous offer' from indiana for our 1st year @ BCS level-running backs coach. Is Mike Hart an 'elite' coach? No. I do think if this was year 3 or 4 you win that battle for one of your coordinators, not necessarily one of your assistants.

Im interpreting his statements as a comment on the broader issue of budget for assistant coaches. This is simply another opportunity to state his case.

 

[cuse10]

It's not just about Hart. It is part of the larger conversation that Syracuse does not invest into the staff like their peers do. Syracuse will remain a stepping stone until they ante up. Babers will be gone once he achieves a level of success that has bigger programs attracted. His name was linked to the Houston job after one year here. Who knows what happens after this season especially with his track record of leaving quickly.

 

[blizz]

Stan Drayton made 295K as the Ohio State RB coach and he carried a heck of a lot more cache than Mike Hart.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but the day Syracuse University pays $250,000 for a running backs coach is a bad day for Syracuse University.

I think this is getting to the point billsin01 was trying to make. If you want the best...talking smack about it or pretending Syracuse is somehow exceptional won't make it happen. You have to actually pay for it. Stan Drayton is a great example, the guy is a certified ace with a track record to back it up. I want a guy like that, hell I want three of them, and I think that's what it's really going to take for this program to return to legitimate prominance. I think there is a real problem with this program in the sense there is not a serious commitment to excellence in the form of being willing to pay for it. Look no further than the attitudes and opinions displayed daily on this board as evidence of a miserly ethic and fiction of exceptionalism. Dino has consistently alluded to this in his remarks and this is just another example.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah I don't really care about Mike hart specifically. Meant that I interpret his statement as a broader comment on budgeting for staff. And that's not a new problem.

Thoughts:

1. We don't know Wildhack's theory on this. We do know he's approved a bunch of recruiting related hires, which is very good. As well as having our S&T guy be focused strictly on FB (I think this is new).
2. We know our Chancellor and the previous AD Mark Whats-his-face made a market offer for Dino.
3. I'm not sure anything prior to Wildhack is really all that relevant. So "old-problem" may already be taken care of. We'll know when it's time to make a decision on Dino's next deal or extension.

 

[TheCusian]

I think this is getting to the point billsin01 was trying to make. If you want the best...talking smack about it or pretending Syracuse is somehow exceptional won't make it happen. You have to actually pay for it. Stan Drayton is a great example, the guy is a certified ace with a track record to back it up. I want a guy like that, hell I want three of them, and I think that's what it's really going to take for this program to return to legitimate prominance. I think there is a real problem with this program in the sense there is not a serious commitment to excellence in the form of being willing to pay for it. Look no further than the attitudes and opinions displayed daily on this board as evidence of a miserly ethic and fiction of exceptionalism. Dino has consistently alluded to this in his remarks and this is just another example.

Dino is like every HC ever: More money for assistants is good.

The job of the AD is to make sure they pay is enough to get the guys Dino can win with. I assume the guys that came with Dino are guys he believes he can win with and that they are happy enough to stay. If they start to win more games you renegotiate and they get paid more money.

I think if Dino was saying "I need more money for better assistants or I can't win here" that's one thing. But we've heard from people in the know that his list of things didn't include that.

Finally, it's his job to ask for more resources if he thinks they will help him win. I don't see his public comments as anything as a constant reminder for Wildhack. But Wildhack's job is a bit different. His job is to win AND make sure he's investing wisely.

 

[Finwad32]

They never have and never will, I don't understand why people feel just overpaying for unproven position coaches is really a good idea. It doesn't guarantee success or anything for that matter. If you are paying to keep an elite recruiter/ coordinator that is one thing. Position coaches come and go, not a big deal, IMO. What has HART done to deserve a raise? In addition, he gets one then the next guy says let me do that and you have a mutiny on your hand, sometimes it's best to shake their hand, let them go and move onto the next. Dino has bigger fish to fry than getting into a bidding war for Mike Hart. Mike took the money but he is going to work for an unproven HC with a school that turns over it's staff quite a bit ( Not that Syracuse doesn't but Dino will have every chance to be successful at Syracuse) If he is then he may go to a bigger position and Hart could possibly go with him. Long term it all depends on where he wants to hitch his wagon.

BECAUSE I LIKE SHINY THINGS!!!

 

[PhatOrange]

I think this is getting to the point billsin01 was trying to make. If you want the best...talking smack about it or pretending Syracuse is somehow exceptional won't make it happen. You have to actually pay for it. Stan Drayton is a great example, the guy is a certified ace with a track record to back it up. I want a guy like that, hell I want three of them, and I think that's what it's really going to take for this program to return to legitimate prominance. I think there is a real problem with this program in the sense there is not a serious commitment to excellence in the form of being willing to pay for it. Look no further than the attitudes and opinions displayed daily on this board as evidence of a miserly ethic and fiction of exceptionalism. Dino has consistently alluded to this in his remarks and this is just another example.

I believe Syracuse fans at some point have to realize they can’t live in the 90210 zip on a $50,000 salary. You need to be happy with the Jeep cuz you’re not getting a Porsche let alone 3 of them.

I would LOVE to know what the private schools are paying out for coaches. I’d bet outside of Notre Dame no one is near the top. If State schools want to pour money into football coaches while their states are bankrupt and infrastructures and education systems fall apart I guess that’s their right.

Syracuse will never have the luxury of wasting state taxpayer money. It is what it is, I’ve stopped caring.

Did anyone spit up a little when Pedo State announced their stadium upgrades? Didn’t they just have to pay millions upon millions in fines?

 

[TheCusian]

I believe Syracuse fans at some point have to realize they can’t live in the 90210 zip on a $50,000 salary. You need to be happy with the Jeep cuz you’re not getting a Porsche let alone 3 of them.

I would LOVE to know what the private schools are paying out for coaches. I’d bet outside of Notre Dame no one is near the top. If State schools want to pour money into football coaches while their states are bankrupt and infrastructures and education systems fall apart I guess that’s their right.

Syracuse will never have the luxury of wasting state taxpayer money. It is what it is, I’ve stopped caring.

Did anyone spit up a little when Pedo State announced their stadium upgrades? Didn’t they just have to pay millions upon millions in fines?

Exactly. You have to be judicious in how you spend. I think the school will pay up for sustained success when it comes time. But we don't have the money to preemptively battle the big state schools or big booster schools.

No shortcuts for a school like Syracuse.

 

[jr4750]

I believe Syracuse fans at some point have to realize they can’t live in the 90210 zip on a $50,000 salary. You need to be happy with the Jeep cuz you’re not getting a Porsche let alone 3 of them.

I would LOVE to know what the private schools are paying out for coaches. I’d bet outside of Notre Dame no one is near the top. If State schools want to pour money into football coaches while their states are bankrupt and infrastructures and education systems fall apart I guess that’s their right.

Syracuse will never have the luxury of wasting state taxpayer money. It is what it is, I’ve stopped caring.

Did anyone spit up a little when Pedo State announced their stadium upgrades? Didn’t they just have to pay millions upon millions in fines?

$100,000,000 roughly in fines and to settle lawsuits. The state has struggled with funds for education and infrastructure for years, and you're right, "lets spruce up this large cow barn in the middle of a corn field," and no one says squat. That school and those enablers (some who just got convicted of covering up the scandal) are true pillars of society.

 

[SU68]

Before everyone gets their panties in a twist over coaching salaries, let review some facts. Until SU got a seat at the big boys table in the ACC, we were getting revenue from the Big East's paltry contract. We had to whore our big home games to the Meadowlands and get the $5 million TV money for doing so. Forbes reported that ACC revenue distribution for 2014-15 was $22.1 million/school while B1G distribution for that year was $27.6 million/school. Indiana (a land-grant state flagship university) was getting $5.5 million more than SU and SU was climbing out of a financial hole. Is SU not paying coaches enough? Yes, but it will get better.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think it is VERY difficult at the start of year two to match an 'enormous offer' from indiana for our 1st year @ BCS level-running backs coach. Is Mike Hart an 'elite' coach? No. I do think if this was year 3 or 4 you win that battle for one of your coordinators, not necessarily one of your assistants.

Trust me, Mike Hart will be a loss. That guy has a great personality, and he was an incredible player in high school and college. He made it to the pros, but he was just too broken down to last. But his story is going to be a great tale to tell to recruits. He has seen it all, and he has a very down to earth demeanor. He is going to be a terrific coach in a few years.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Trust me, Mike Hart will be a loss. That guy has a great personality, and he was an incredible player in high school and college. He made it to the pros, but he was just too broken down to last. But his story is going to be a great tale to tell to recruits. He has seen it all, and he has a very down to earth demeanor. He is going to be a terrific coach in a few years.

Not what I am saying at all. It would be silly to match an offer for a first year-BCS-level assistant. I am sure he WILL be great. Currently is not. He is obviously replaceable although I'd prefer we didn't have to.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not what I am saying at all. It would be silly to match an offer for a first year-BCS-level assistant. I am sure he WILL be great. Currently is not. He is obviously replaceable although I'd prefer we didn't have to.

No, I understand the economics of the situation. You just hate to lose him before he ever gets a chance to coach. The kid had pulled in a couple recruits already, and now he's gone before ever working with them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think this is getting to the point billsin01 was trying to make. If you want the best...talking smack about it or pretending Syracuse is somehow exceptional won't make it happen. You have to actually pay for it. Stan Drayton is a great example, the guy is a certified ace with a track record to back it up. I want a guy like that, hell I want three of them, and I think that's what it's really going to take for this program to return to legitimate prominance. I think there is a real problem with this program in the sense there is not a serious commitment to excellence in the form of being willing to pay for it. Look no further than the attitudes and opinions displayed daily on this board as evidence of a miserly ethic and fiction of exceptionalism. Dino has consistently alluded to this in his remarks and this is just another example.

Excellent post!

 

[UnknownOrange]

No, I understand the economics of the situation. You just hate to lose him before he ever gets a chance to coach. The kid had pulled in a couple recruits already, and now he's gone before ever working with them.

Absolutely. Not a fun situation to be in. What I'd love to know is - what is "enormous"? I doubt we ever know with certainty.

 

[PhatOrange]

Trust me, Mike Hart will be a loss. That guy has a great personality, and he was an incredible player in high school and college. He made it to the pros, but he was just too broken down to last. But his story is going to be a great tale to tell to recruits. He has seen it all, and he has a very down to earth demeanor. He is going to be a terrific coach in a few years.

yeah Mike Hart's tale to tell recruits is a great one. Even though I bailed on my hometown team Syracuse and went to Michigan you should come to Syracuse. I'm sure that pitch was a hit.

 

[IthacaMatt]

yeah Mike Hart's tale to tell recruits is great one. Even though I bailed on my hometown team Syracuse and went to Michigan you should come to Syracuse. I'm sure that pitch was a hit.

You're quite salesman, Phatty.

 

[tep624]

yeah Mike Hart's tale to tell recruits is great one. Even though I bailed on my hometown team Syracuse and went to Michigan you should come to Syracuse. I'm sure that pitch was a hit.

Beat me to it.

I think there's two issues at play here - Micro level - Mike Hart left and Macro Level - an assistant coach left to a peer school for the same job at an "enormous" raise.

I can't imagine anyone would/should be upset that Hart left, and besides, the second Michigan sniffed around him he would have had one foot out the door so fast it would have made your head spin. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him being ambitious and an opportunist, but I think it's pretty clear he wasn't going to get promoted here to OC or AHC or something like that so with any success he wasn't going to be here long anyway.

The macro level issue though is of concern. We should not be losing coaches to peer schools due to $$. Promotions are a different topic all together.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Beat me to it.

I think there's two issues at play here - Micro level - Mike Hart left and Macro Level - an assistant coach left to a peer school for the same job at an "enormous" raise.

I can't imagine anyone would/should be upset that Hart left, and besides, the second Michigan sniffed around him he would have had one foot out the door so fast it would have made your head spin. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him being ambitious and an opportunist, but I think it's pretty clear he wasn't going to get promoted here to OC or AHC or something like that so with any success he wasn't going to be here long anyway.

The macro level issue though is of concern. We should not be losing coaches to peer schools due to $$. Promotions are a different topic all together.

Public vs. Private. $$ is much different @ private schools

 

[HtownOrange]

It's not just about Hart. It is part of the larger conversation that Syracuse does not invest into the staff like their peers do. Syracuse will remain a stepping stone until they ante up. Babers will be gone once he achieves a level of success that has bigger programs attracted. His name was linked to the Houston job after one year here. Who knows what happens after this season especially with his track record of leaving quickly.

I believe that if this staff wins, the money will be there. Simply adding 5K-10K to home attendance will pay the increase in salaries. Also, the ACCN will be up and running in a couple years so there should be larger increases in TV money soon enough. Hart is not a proven commodity and not an elite coach; he may very well get there but not before he wins serious recruiting battles and proves up with P5 running backs - neither task will be easy at Indiana (UM, MSU, PSU, tOSU annually, with UNL, Wiscy thrown in for good measure periodically).

Also, taking a step back to a non-P5 school is a dangerous move: All is well and good so long as you can beat a OU and rack up 10-13 wins annually, but if the team slips to middle of the pack, it may be a long time before another P5 sniffs around for you. NOTE: this comment is for lateral moves, not upward moves.

 

[upperdeck]

how much money though.. what if someone offered 2 million do we match it?