I love how Dino is throwing some zingers about $$$

[TheCusian]

Trust me, Mike Hart will be a loss. That guy has a great personality, and he was an incredible player in high school and college. He made it to the pros, but he was just too broken down to last. But his story is going to be a great tale to tell to recruits. He has seen it all, and he has a very down to earth demeanor. He is going to be a terrific coach in a few years.

Isn't that the point though? He might be great in a few years doesn't mean he gets a big raise here now, especially after last season.

All this focus on Babers $ talk - but what I liked best was his comments on how many people want to coach offense here. The Babers system is a net plus in that regard.

 

[TheCusian]

how much money though.. what if someone offered 2 million do we match it?

We already pay Babers 2 mill+

 

[HtownOrange]

how much money though.. what if someone offered 2 million do we match it?

Once Babers is a proven commodity at the P5 level, he will command a raise. Syverud has already made clear that he will provide funding (besides, a winning team will generate more funds for the raises anyway) and Wildhack understands how the game is played. I cannot say that SU will pay the best, probably never that good so we are not likely to get Saban or Meyer but there are plenty of really good coaches that can be paid from the revenues generated by the sports teams.

In my opinion, if HCDB is winning, he will work his way into doubling his salary, more if he is winning the ACC, at the very least, HCDB will be offered what P5 coaches in similar circumstances are paid (YEars as a P5 HC, record, SOS, player development/pro prospects, academic performance, etc.). Let's not forget that Syracuse has on element that the biggest of State U's lacks, that is as a private school, nobody demands a playoff spot year in and year out.

 

[Ish88888]

I think Dino's message is more a hit and make fun of Indiana to offer such a green assistant, with no recruiting portfolio big $$$$. Its an inside job at indiana with a friend helping a friend. He was by far, our most expendable assistant.

 

[cuse309]

But point is the amount Indiana is not worth what he did for us. He didn't show us anything last year, so why would we pay him fair market value?

because it's an arms race, not clothes shopping.

 

[PAcuse]

because it's an arms race, not clothes shopping.

So we should over pay for an unproven coach? That's just silly even in an arms race.

 

[billsin01]

Thoughts:

1. We don't know Wildhack's theory on this. We do know he's approved a bunch of recruiting related hires, which is very good. As well as having our S&T guy be focused strictly on FB (I think this is new).
2. We know our Chancellor and the previous AD Mark Whats-his-face made a market offer for Dino.
3. I'm not sure anything prior to Wildhack is really all that relevant. So "old-problem" may already be taken care of. We'll know when it's time to make a decision on Dino's next deal or extension.

I'm with you on those. I'm not sure you can toss out the history of this athletic department's spending habits based on the fact that there are still many of the same mitigating factors in place -- namely being a small, private university in upstate NY that is competing with many places that might actually throw $25oK at an RB coach without much of a resume simply b/c they think he'll become a really good head coach. It may have been an extremely prudent decision to let him walk, but the discussion will come up at some point with another assistant that we really don't want to lose. That's almost a guarantee, assuming Babers is pretty successful.

If things have truly changed that's great. If they haven't and we simply aren't going to play with a lot of other P5 schools in terms of salary, that's fine. But either way it's an interesting story to watch and based on Dino's comments in just over a year, he seems to be angling for deeper pockets in terms of bringing on staff.

 

[MadNY3]

Trust me, Mike Hart will be a loss. That guy has a great personality, and he was an incredible player in high school and college. He made it to the pros, but he was just too broken down to last. But his story is going to be a great tale to tell to recruits. He has seen it all, and he has a very down to earth demeanor. He is going to be a terrific coach in a few years.

We need a terrific coach now. Program is done waiting a few years and since he didn't come from a Babers camp beforehand, if we're going to lose someone, I'm fine with it being him.

 

[upperdeck]

several coaches have huge tie-ins with Dino, Hart had none. nothing wrong with taking the money and running, It might have been nice to see him actually perform here for 2-3 yrs before jumping ship but if the oline takes off this year I dont think most will care next year that we had a new RB coach and if we still cant run him being here wouldnt have made a difference.

 

[billsin01]

They never have and never will, I don't understand why people feel just overpaying for unproven position coaches is really a good idea. It doesn't guarantee success or anything for that matter. If you are paying to keep an elite recruiter/ coordinator that is one thing. Position coaches come and go, not a big deal, IMO. What has HART done to deserve a raise? In addition, he gets one then the next guy says let me do that and you have a mutiny on your hand, sometimes it's best to shake their hand, let them go and move onto the next. Dino has bigger fish to fry than getting into a bidding war for Mike Hart. Mike took the money but he is going to work for an unproven HC with a school that turns over it's staff quite a bit ( Not that Syracuse doesn't but Dino will have every chance to be successful at Syracuse) If he is then he may go to a bigger position and Hart could possibly go with him. Long term it all depends on where he wants to hitch his wagon.

Just so we're clear -- I don't care that Hart left. I was suggesting that Babers is taking every opportunity to push for a larger assistant coach budget. And putting together a really quality staff -- whether that staff has some turnover or not -- is absolutely essential for even the best programs. My guess is that Babers knows we'll need a bigger pot not only than we've had in the past but that we have right now. We don't have to be alabama and, Hart leaving is fine -- but I don't think there's any question this university is going to have to be OK with the arms race aspect of big-time college football.

 

[blizz]

My bigger problem is with the hire before Mike Hart. Chris Beatty was a homerun, the exact kind of coach this program needs at the position if it is serious about playing with the bigs and the exact kind of guy you throw above market duckets at to retain. And I would bet anyone a steak dinner that money was a big part of the reason he moved on so quickly.

 

[PAcuse]

My bigger problem is with the hire before Mike Hart. Chris Beatty was a homerun, the exact kind of coach this program needs at the position if it is serious about playing with the bigs and the exact kind of guy you throw above market duckets at to retain. And I would bet anyone a steak dinner that money was a big part of the reason he moved on so quickly.

"Beatty, the wide receivers coach, will receive a $220,000 base salary with $100,000 in supplemental income for a total salary of $320,000. He can earn up to $55,000 in incentives. "

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

yeah Mike Hart's tale to tell recruits is a great one. Even though I bailed on my hometown team Syracuse and went to Michigan you should come to Syracuse. I'm sure that pitch was a hit.

It's a great tale.
It's in your best interest to leave your home, and your state/local school and go away to a great school where you can grow into the person you want to be.
Leaving home was great for me, that's why I think you should leave ______________, and come play FB at Syracuse.
Everything is perspective.

 

[Moontan]

I think it's pretty clear he wasn't going to get promoted here to OC or AHC or something like that so with any success he wasn't going to be here long anyway.

You don't know that. Imagine this scenario:

1. In his second year Hart truly becomes a cult member and begins to gel with the staff
2. SU improves over the next few years and manages to win the ACC
3. Dino leaves for greener pastures
4. Coach Lewis opts not to follow & like Hop decides to be his own man and becomes HC
5. With half the old coaching staff gone, Lew will look for remaining cult members to fill key roles... "Hey, Mike! Wanna be OC?"

 

[TheCusian]

because it's an arms race, not clothes shopping.

That's not true. It's easy to throw money at coaches. It's much harder to identify good ones and then hold onto them. Its not clear that's what's happened here.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm with you on those. I'm not sure you can toss out the history of this athletic department's spending habits based on the fact that there are still many of the same mitigating factors in place -- namely being a small, private university in upstate NY that is competing with many places that might actually throw $25oK at an RB coach without much of a resume simply b/c they think he'll become a really good head coach. It may have been an extremely prudent decision to let him walk, but the discussion will come up at some point with another assistant that we really don't want to lose. That's almost a guarantee, assuming Babers is pretty successful.

If things have truly changed that's great. If they haven't and we simply aren't going to play with a lot of other P5 schools in terms of salary, that's fine. But either way it's an interesting story to watch and based on Dino's comments in just over a year, he seems to be angling for deeper pockets in terms of bringing on staff.

Right. I don't think we're in the business of throwing money at unproven position coaches. I do think it's worth noting that we have fairly new leadership and that they may be willing to open up the pocket books for proven assistants and position coaches once the product on the field improves. Knowing Dino, he's expecting that to happen and is priming the pumps - as any HC should.

The unknown is Wildhack. We'll see.

 

[TheCusian]

You don't know that. Imagine this scenario:

1. In his second year Hart truly becomes a cult member and begins to gel with the staff
2. SU improves over the next few years and manages to win the ACC
3. Dino leaves for greener pastures
4. Coach Lewis opts not to follow & like Hop decides to be his own man and becomes HC
5. With half the old coaching staff gone, Lew will look for remaining cult members to fill key roles... "Hey, Mike! Wanna be OC?"

That's a lot of what ifs.

I prefer:

1. If Indiana wants to spend that kind of money on an unproven guy, good for them.
2. Babers wins a lot with his already proven offensive system guys.
3. Lewis makes good, prudent hires based on his network of "Briles" guys he already knows.

 

[upperdeck]

We need to run in this offense to be good, but i dont think the RB coach will be the big reason we get the running game figured out.. It needs to come from recruiting and oline play.

 

[chugg21]

Not sure if we have upgraded/downgraded at RB coach based on today's hire but weighing everything involved... I guess I am indifferent which is fine with me.

 

[tep624]

You don't know that. Imagine this scenario:

1. In his second year Hart truly becomes a cult member and begins to gel with the staff
2. SU improves over the next few years and manages to win the ACC
3. Dino leaves for greener pastures
4. Coach Lewis opts not to follow & like Hop decides to be his own man and becomes HC
5. With half the old coaching staff gone, Lew will look for remaining cult members to fill key roles... "Hey, Mike! Wanna be OC?"

That's probably the only scenario, albeit about as likely as a comet landing on my head tomorrow, in which he would have been promoted to that level here. The reason being is that if he was so successful to be considered to be promoted to that level here, he more than likely would have been offered positions at larger P5 schools for more money and left. He wasn't even that successful here as RB coach and he still left for more money doing the same role at a peer school.

I just don't feel he's got any affinity to the program or the area at all. Looking back his hire looks more like hiring a mercenary who happened to grow up in Syracuse.

 

[bnoro]

He's a position coach, and if he wasn't from Syracuse no one here would really care. I don't think he was the deciding factor in any recruiting battles (maybe stritz but he came here because he wanted to play RB, not CB). He didn't improve any of our RBs. I'm excited for Lustig.

 

[721Comstock]

He's a position coach, and if he wasn't from Syracuse no one here would really care. I don't think he was the deciding factor in any recruiting battles (maybe stritz but he came here because he wanted to play RB, not CB). He didn't improve any of our RBs. I'm excited for Lustig.

THIS.
Way more experience, recruiting ties in an area of need/prioroty, and SPECIAL TEAMS experience/success?
Hell to the yes!

Plus - we must have been able to pay decently enough to hire away the DII COY to come be our RB/ST coach.
Just sayin'.

 

[anomander]

I think Dino's message is more a hit and make fun of Indiana to offer such a green assistant, with no recruiting portfolio big $$$$. Its an inside job at indiana with a friend helping a friend. He was by far, our most expendable assistant.

Personally, I don't mind losing Hart at all. It is what it is. What would make me worried is if Dino minded losing Hart. Then that could eventually be a problem.

 

[bevosu]

yeah Mike Hart's tale to tell recruits is a great one. Even though I bailed on my hometown team Syracuse and went to Michigan you should come to Syracuse. I'm sure that pitch was a hit.

If this was the Rutgers board, they'd fire up the old alternative facts machine and say... "We never offered him".

 

[tep624]

If this was the Rutgers board, they'd fire up the old alternative facts machine and say... "We never offered him".

I could have sworn at the time (could be wrong) that there was discussion that we only offered him as a DB. I could be confusing him with someone else but I'm pretty sure it was him.