I love the off season banter with regard to transfers coming and going, coordinators leaving

[baggerbob]

That's my whole point I don't mind Dino nor want him fired. I also really like the team. We have more question marks now and not the amount of veteran leadership which good teams of ours in the past typically had, so now that is reduced , but imo Long and Beck were the right moves. My concern is with the future of the program and how we stay competitive. Kids see where Had and Duce went. Unfortunately I don't think there are a lot of Zaire Franklin’s, or Mikel Jones who will stay for far less money. My favorite part of being a college football fan is watching the recruiting process from start to finish. Watching those guys develop as young guys and then eventually turn into team leaders as upperclassmen. I'm just positive, just like college hoops who I stopped watching years ago, that the same fate is happening now to CFB just in a far more drastic and dirty way and that sucks because there was nothing I loved more than going to the Dome in the late 80’s - 00’s and watching SU play meaningful games.
So after all that it doesn't seem like you understood what I have been posting about this whole time.

That is more of the type of statements I am use to hearing from you, a thoughtful response to previous statements.

 

[Chip]

Losing 2 all conference caliber starters to big schools and pulling in 2 RF’s that were well recruited but haven’t played from big schools isn’t the same thing.

What do you think prevents that?

It’s the new normal for Syracuse and it’s better than not getting anything in return. We’re essentially getting recruits we’d never get.

People should either get on board or find a better hobby.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We need to either join the B10 or get congress involved with antitrust rulings.

 

[orangenauburn]

Offer Streeter and Nunzio, go from there

 

[kcsu]

I posted this before. Build the roster with portal players. Especially at critical positions. QB, LT, DT ect... 30 to 40% of recruits per year. More if possible. Within 3 years the roster is very hard to poach.
Save NIL for retention. Spend NIL on landing portal kids with 3 years left.
This is the strategy that SU should pursue.

 

[Newhouser]

We need to either join the B10 or get congress involved with antitrust rulings.

I agree and I think people are missing the bigger threat..that the football focused schools tell the schedule filling league partners who eat up TV money, to ride on. We will figure out our place and how to survive, my belief is that it will be in a totally different stream than the 30-40 big spenders.

 

[longtimefan]

Rocky was a good recovery, but Rocky still is coming from a G5 school in the twilight of his career. He's a good bandaid but a bandaid not the less.

We should be retaining our high ceiling assistants and/or promoting them, and recruiting high ceiling assistants from peer P5 schools like we did with Beck from UVA. What we did with Anae and Beck last season was a show of strength perception wise and it resulted in a really good high ceiling QB coach who is now our OC.

If what has happened this offseason is any indicator, then the long term reality now is that the Power P5 conferences will out buy us on recruits, buy our starters away from us and buy our high ceiling assistants as well. I'm just not pumped about the program soup to nuts being a feeder program to the SEC and B1G, and then chasing down reclamation projects on the field and on the sidelines that didn't work out at those schools. There's a niche to be successful doing that but it's going to make the program a turnstile as far as coaches and players.

That may be an accurate assessment of SU's status going forward. And the same description may be apt for half of the schools in the ACC, not to mention some from the Big XII and Pac-12, and likely a couple in the SEC and B1G. This is the New World Order.

 

[hoopsupstate]

There’s only so many openings in the SEC and Big Ten. That leaves a lot of jobs left for other coaches.

 

[Cuseregular]

All I'm saying is that you are speaking in absolutes that frame things in the worst possible way.

"this is just the beginning of things exploding outside of Syracuse’s control"

"we are now going to have to deal with our best players being picked off before they reach the upperclassmen level which we need to compete"

"If you or anyone else thinks we are going to consistently fill the holes these players and coaches leave on an annual basis then you’re just lying to yourself."

On the coaching front we've had a very unique offseason. If we lose Beck, Long and another staff member next year then we can start talking about trends. But make no mistake, staff will leave because staff always leaves.

As for "our best players being picked off"... again, this offseason has been unique in that regard, and we didn't lose ALL of our best players. If we lose a bunch of guys next season, then it'll be a trend and we can discuss it.

My point continues to be that no one knows precisely how each season will unfold. Claiming that our new normal is losing our 4-5 best players every year, plus our coordinators, seems a bit premature to me.

if the NCAA doesn't come in and make some significant changes it WILL become the new normal, but we'll lose so many interested fans that we won't be discussing it because we'll be off to other pursuits or as chip says above finding a better hobby. In my case more hs, div. 3, FCS games without the wholesale dedication to all things SU, and the big huge financial committment associated with it all.

Now I hope, truly hope that the glass half full views that what we get through the portal back are true and those kids work out to keep us at the level we currently are right now at a min. But to go glass half empty again, what's to stop those players (once they get established/good here as "star" players) from Portaling out themselves for bigger $/fame/name schools? This will most definitely happen if unless the NCAA does as I say above and reign in the insanity as it currently stands. As bagger said it's a time of transition and remains to be seen.

But as for anomander hes appropriately looking at things as they are NOW, today. Think he's just thinking ahead, and the reality of the current situation (and life in general as we all follow the better $ trail when we can) suggests he isnt wrong. At all.

 

[tep624]

if the NCAA doesn't come in and make some significant changes it WILL become the new normal, but we'll lose so many interested fans that we won't be discussing it because we'll be off to other pursuits or as chip says above finding a better hobby. In my case more hs, div. 3, FCS games without the wholesale dedication to all things SU, and the big huge financial committment associated with it all.

Now I hope, truly hope that the glass half full views that what we get through the portal back are true and those kids work out to keep us at the level we currently are right now at a min. But to go glass half empty again, what's to stop those players (once they get established/good here as "star" players) from Portaling out themselves for bigger $/fame/name schools? This will most definitely happen if unless the NCAA does as I say above and reign in the insanity as it currently stands. As bagger said it's a time of transition and remains to be seen.

But as for anomander hes appropriately looking at things as they are NOW, today. Think he's just thinking ahead, and the reality of the current situation (and life in general as we all follow the better $ trail when we can) suggests he isnt wrong. At all.

I think an important point is that the NCAA is suggesting no limits on transferring. Part of the argument now as to how the portal could potentially benefit Syracuse is that kids who portal are locked in or they have to sit out a year if they portal again. If that goes away (which appears likely), there’s nothing stopping power schools from letting kids leave through the portal and then offer them big cash to come back as starters if they do develop (or another power school for example).

That’s the next fundamental shift in favor of the power schools and it’s coming.

 

[Cuseregular]

I think an important point is that the NCAA is suggesting no limits on transferring. Part of the argument now as to how the portal could potentially benefit Syracuse is that kids who portal are locked in or they have to sit out a year if they portal again. If that goes away (which appears likely), there’s nothing stopping power schools from letting kids leave through the portal and then offer them big cash to come back as starters if they do develop (or another power school for example).

That’s the next fundamental shift in favor of the power schools and it’s coming.

Thought it was that way already as it and that they can portal in and out and transfer as many times as they want without having to sit, no?

 

[tep624]

Thought it was that way already as it and that they can portal in and out and transfer as many times as they want without having to sit, no?

I think right now you have to sit a year if you portal again. But they’re discussing changing that to making it completely wide open. I think right now you can only portal again without penalty if you’re a grad transfer.

 

[kcsu]

I think an important point is that the NCAA is suggesting no limits on transferring. Part of the argument now as to how the portal could potentially benefit Syracuse is that kids who portal are locked in or they have to sit out a year if they portal again. If that goes away (which appears likely), there’s nothing stopping power schools from letting kids leave through the portal and then offer them big cash to come back as starters if they do develop (or another power school for example).

That’s the next fundamental shift in favor of the power schools and it’s coming.

When that comes its the end of college football. It will take the gov to get involved

 

[HtownOrange]

We need to either join the B10 or get congress involved with antitrust rulings.

Why not the SEC?
Why not improve the ACC and make it worth more than the B1G or SEC?
Are you an attorney, do you know that Congress can get involved?
Even if Congress can get involved, would you really want Congress involved?

 

[orangecuse]

Strange that you only take that sentence from my entire post. Maybe I made that comment because any time you respond to me or make a post referring to me it is when I am critical on the outlook for the program. The same people respond to me the same way just taking the other view point.

As far as only posting through Orange colored glasses it’s because I’m sick of it after 20 years of ineptitude and the playing field just got exponentially harder, and is stacked even more against us, or do you disagree? Just writing hopeful things for the sake of being liked is just fake and I’d rather not waste my time. To a lot of people that is just as annoying as those who are being critical. It just shows that you know what’s in store but just want to give people a hard time for expressing it.

Amen!

I've been around this place in its various creations since the AOL days. And, from my experience, there are indeed plenty of those folks as you've mentioned.

As Alsacs would state from time to time, you don't have to agree with me, however, debate the argument, stay on point, don't make it personal, etc. Unfortunately, some here do go off point at times (making things personal) and lose sight of debating the spirit of the specific argument.

Kudos to you for standing your ground.

 

[money3189]

Amen!

I've been around this place in its various creations since the AOL days. And, from my experience, there are indeed plenty of those aforementioned folks as you've mentioned.

As Alsacs would mention from time to time, you don't have to agree with me, debate the argument, stay on point, don't make it personal, etc. Unfortunately, many here do go off point at times and lose sight of debating the spirit of the specific argument.

Kudos to you for standing your ground.

People being critical is not the issue. We all critique and praise at times. The issue I have is judging people because they dont agree with you or dont share the same mindset. "Just writing hopeful things for the sake of being liked is just fake and I’d rather not waste my time. Who is he referring to and how does he know the intent of their post? He is making it personal by saying that. Why come to a board if you are not open to other peoples perspectives? You can disagree with someone without judging them.

 

[orangecuse]

People being critical is not the issue. We all critique and praise at times. The issue I have is judging people because they dont agree with you or dont share the same mindset. "Just writing hopeful things for the sake of being liked is just fake and I’d rather not waste my time. Who is he referring to and how does he know the intent of their post? He is making it personal by saying that. Why come to a board if you are not open to other peoples perspectives? You can disagree with someone without judging them.

Well, that's after you and a few others chased him into defense mode after taking it off tangent. At least that's how I see it.

FWIW, the guy has been here a very long time. Based upon the likes he has received, it's quite apparent that he's open to other people's perspectives. Ironically, you are the one seemingly having difficulty with his particular perspective.

 

[money3189]

Well, that's after you and a few others chased him into defense mode after taking it off tangent. At least that's how I see it.

I pointed out that he is in defense mode a lot. He didnt like it and started labeling me. Pointing that out is a problem but his judging/ labeling several members is acceptable? A "tell it how it is" person have to realize that other people can tell it how it is also. Dont complain when others do it.

If he doesnt share the same views with people here then he doesnt have to come. He keeps saying how he is tired of people. No one is forcing him to stomach everything he sees here. I personally dont visit forums that dont interest me. I dont go in threads involving topics I dont know or care for. I wouldnt want to lose him as a member. So if he is struggling with the content he can stroll pass threads he doesnt like. He can mute certain individuals as well but Im not a fan of judging people every time someone disagrees with you. This seems to be a recurring thing.

 

[orangecuse]

Some dudes will say extreme things just to get attention.

I pointed out that he is in defense mode a lot. He didnt like it and started labeling me. Pointing that out is a problem but his judging/ labeling several members is acceptable? A "tell it how it is" person have to realize that other people can tell it how it is also. Dont complain when others do it.

If he doesnt share the same views with people here then he doesnt have to come. He keeps saying how he is tired of people. No one is forcing him to stomach everything he sees here. I personally dont visit forums that dont interest me. I dont go in threads involving topics I dont know or care for. I wouldnt want to lose him as a member. So if he is struggling with the content he can stroll pass threads he doesnt like. He can mute certain individuals as well but Im not a fan of judging people every time someone disagrees with you. This seems to be a recurring thing.

This was subsequent to your initial post above where you seemingly interjected a relatively passive aggressive type, snark reply to another poster, baiting him to reply directly to you. His response back to you was without sarcasm, simply a reasonable and honest reply. It proceeded accordingly from there.

We all see things how we choose to see them.

Respectfully, on this one, you and I can simply agree to disagree.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Why not the SEC?

because the B10 has at least sniffed around our butts.

 

[money3189]

This was subsequent to your initial post above where you seemingly interjected a relatively passive aggressive type, snark reply to another poster, baiting him to reply directly to you. His response back to you was without sarcasm, simply a reasonable and honest reply. It proceeded accordingly from there.

We all see things how we choose to see them.

Respectfully, on this one, you and I can simply agree to disagree.

My response to that person was my way of telling him not to bother with him but I can see how it could be interpreted differently. I could have used different words. He then asked me a question "whats extreme about it? " Which I responded to. I gave my opinion and he is warranted to defend himself. No interjection and I dont bait. I respond to people directly.

 

[HtownOrange]

because the B10 has at least sniffed around our butts.

Thanks for avoiding your real issue. Why must it be the B10 or Congress that saves SU's backside? Why no other alternatives? Why have you not provided other alternatives? Obviously, if you offer the B10 and Congress as options you are comfortable offering advice to the BOT to save SU's hide, back to the original question, why no other options/alternatives?

I am not attempting to start a war of words rather, I am looking for solutions. The B10 and SEC as the last two standing with 16 teams is not actually viable as a league. TV execs know this and know they will lose most CFB fans. They also know that the B10 and SEC need canon fodder and if the schools are not paid sufficiently, they will refuse to play the B10 and SEC. Likewise, a practical avenue to the championship must be available.

Again, you have proffered the B10 and Congress as the only two solutions. I ask why no other alternatives?

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

If he doesnt share the same views with people here then he doesnt have to come.

WOW!

 

[IthacaMatt]

People act as if only SU loses staff. Everyone loses staff, at every level. The top tier P5 schools lose coordinators to other schools as HCs, and lose staff to the NFL, constantly.

Every tier below that loses coaches as they advance up and across the food chain.

People get so myopic about SU. I get it, that’s the school we follow. But the hysteria is a bit silly. This stuff happens to literally every school at every level.

"Every school" loses both coordinators plus 2 or 3 other guys after their first winning season in 4 years? Maybe when you're Alabama or some big time school where you win 10 games every year.

But why are guys (who mostly can't recruit ...), who coach for a team that has only 2 winning seasons in about the last 10 years, such hot targets as coaches?

 

[IthacaMatt]

why should we be beating these schools? What advantages do we have over them? Look at wakes roster? I bet 60% of it is North Carolina kids. BC is probably 40% kids from Catholic/ Jesuit/ prep or high schools. Pitt has had on field success along and also located in an state that still cares about HS football a lot more than NY.

complacent? Yeah that’s it. It’s reality. Can it get better? Sure it can but thinking we should just be out recruiting any of these schools is crazy. I just don’t get it. That ship sailed 25 years ago

I think that education matters more to football players and their families than it does for basketball players, who all think they're going pro.

Football families are maybe more in touch with the long odds of ever becoming a pro, and it's not like there are 30 other countries you can go play overseas and still make a nice living, like you can do with basketball.

I would take an SU degree over Wake, NC State, Va. Tech Pitt, Clemson, Miami. We're about on par with BC and Georgia Tech, and a step below UNC, UVa and Duke.

So that's one thing going for Syracuse, and it's something I get the sense that Dino sells pretty well, having all the data about successful Syracuse grads who are captains of industry in the recruit's local area.

Of course we play in a Dome, and with the new lights, let me tell you, it looks cool as hell, both in person and on TV. The fans for the early portion of the season were the best I've seen in 20 years. We had back to back sell-outs, and left announcers deaf and speechless. Fans here proved, yet again, that they will support a winning team.

The facilities are in the middle of a huge upgrade, and are really getting there, from what we have been seeing.

The worst thing happening to Syracuse right now is the fact that ESPN is not paying the league fair market value compared to other P5 leagues, and they are undermining the stability of their own product.