I love the off season banter with regard to transfers coming and going, coordinators leaving

[LeMoyneCuse]

And who did they hire in their place and where did they come from?

Google

Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for.

www.google.com

 

[tep624]

Google

Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for.

www.google.com

Well if you're going to throw out half an analysis maybe you should be the one googling.

 

[GoSU96]

When it comes to coaching this is nothing new. I don't know how many times I can say that. George DeLeone left for the NFL 25 years ago. We are not a top tier program, and we have always (always, always) lost staff who get jobs at more prestigious, better resourced schools.

The player dynamic is different, obviously. We'll see how it goes. No one expects the portal/NIL process to remain unchanged. I suspect we'll see some new regulations installed in the next year or 2.

I continue to find the gloom of "guys, its over, SU will never be competitive again, don't bother, let's shut the board down" perplexing. I mean any outcome is possible. But losing all hope because a couple guys left via the portal (while more stayed, I'll note), and because we lost 2 staff members to promotions seems weird to me. I'm not counting Anea, he was a short-timer if there ever was one. I'm stunned he came here to begin with.

People done lost their damn minds

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Well if you're going to throw out half an analysis maybe you should be the one googling.

I'm not doing work for the axe you're grinding.

 

[mscanlo]

i think it's fair to say the board would agree that these were 3 of our TOP assistants. the two coordinators are automatically considered top because they are coordinators, and arguably our best recruiter (if not top 2).

you can throw out Alabama, UGA, etc. but they did not lose their 3 TOP assistants to lateral moves. I get Alabama, but to compare this situation to Alabama and Saban's ability to rotate in pretty much anyone he wants, is a little crazy.

heck, maybe Dino did a great job retaining White and Monroe over the past few seasons, and i am being overly skeptical. as others said, maybe they saw the writing on the wall with Dino next year. I'm just saying, it seems a little weird... sorry for the contrarian view to the orange kool-aid

 

[GoSU96]

What I'm suggesting is that yes power programs lose assistants but they are far better positioned to replace those assistants with assistants with P5 level experience and high ceilings than we are. We'll be looking at the P5 scrap yard and the G5 and both are much more of a crap shoot.

And yet we’ve managed to get coaches to replace guys who then leave themselves. Dino has done a pretty good job with staffing. Not great, there have been duds.

SU is going to be a place where high potential guys can get first p-5 experience. Which is fine, get what you can out of them and be prepared to need to replace them if they are good. And the job is good. White and Monroe left only after multiple offers, they left because of unique, great fits.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

you can throw out Alabama, UGA, etc. but they did not lose their 3 TOP assistants to lateral moves. I get Alabama, but to compare this situation to Alabama and Saban's ability to rotate in pretty much anyone he wants, is a little crazy.

So you're just going to cherry pick now?

 

[mscanlo]

So you're just going to cherry pick now?

can you expand on how i am cherry picking. i said the exception of alabama... i dont think that's cherry picking

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

can you expand on how i am cherry picking. i said the exception of alabama... i dont think that's cherry picking

You've said it can't be Alabama or Georgia and it has to be TOP assistants, whatever that means. You're literally trying to frame your argument to deny that this happens everywhere to everyone.

 

[mscanlo]

You've said it can't be Alabama or Georgia and it has to be TOP assistants, whatever that means. You're literally trying to frame your argument to deny that this happens everywhere to everyone.

apologies,, bad wording... i meant "throw out" as in can use those as examples, only to say Alabama might be the exception, but to compare SU to Bama doesn't seem fair. i did not mean you can't use them as examples. confusing, i know

 

[Scooch]

i think it's fair to say the board would agree that these were 3 of our TOP assistants. the two coordinators are automatically considered top because they are coordinators, and arguably our best recruiter (if not top 2).

you can throw out Alabama, UGA, etc. but they did not lose their 3 TOP assistants to lateral moves. I get Alabama, but to compare this situation to Alabama and Saban's ability to rotate in pretty much anyone he wants, is a little crazy.

heck, maybe Dino did a great job retaining White and Monroe over the past few seasons, and i am being overly skeptical. as others said, maybe they saw the writing on the wall with Dino next year. I'm just saying, it seems a little weird... sorry for the contrarian view to the orange kool-aid

Forget Anae, he was a hired gun who was never going to spend more than a season (mayyyyyybe 2) here. We replaced him with Beck, who has precisely the kind of resume you want as a replacement.

People have said, repeatedly, that White and Monroe have had offers in the past and we managed to retain them. That won't last forever.

We replaced White with the guy who literally designed the D that he ran. Seems like an incredible bit of coach recruiting to me.

Monroe? Who knows, we'll get someone.

I just don't see the calamity some people do. We are Syracuse, this happens, has always happened, and will continue to happen.

 

[tep624]

And yet we’ve managed to get coaches to replace guys who then leave themselves. Dino has done a pretty good job with staffing. Not great, there have been duds.

SU is going to be a place where high potential guys can get first d-1 experience. Which is fine, get what you can and be prepared to need to replace them if they are good. And the job is good. White and Monroe left only after multiple offers, they left because of unique, great fits.

There was a fundamental shift in NCAA football about 10 years or so ago when the SEC started to distance itself from everyone else.

There's now a new fundamental shift where the B1G is also distancing itself from the rest of the pack, while trying to keep up with the SEC. That's been evolving as they've always had OSU/Michigan and a sprinkling of others at the top which were playoff teams, but it seems now with the heavier annual revenue share they have that it's permeating down into the B1G schools that were always peer level to Syracuse. To lose assistants that we wanted to retain to Minnesota and Nebraska which aren't elite B1G programs isn't a good look.

I've not seen the definitive reason but $$ seems to be consistently be thrown around as major drivers for both White and Monroe departing for lateral moves.

 

[mscanlo]

Forget Anae, he was a hired gun who was never going to spend more than a season (mayyyyyybe 2) here. We replaced him with Beck, who has precisely the kind of resume you want as a replacement.

People have said, repeatedly, that White and Monroe have had offers in the past and we managed to retain them. That won't last forever.

We replaced White with the guy who literally designed the D that he ran. Seems like an incredible bit of coach recruiting to me.

Monroe? Who knows, we'll get someone.

I just don't see the calamity some people do. We are Syracuse, this happens, has always happened, and will continue to happen.

fair, and not trying to be crazy headed.

if Anae was only going to be here for 2 years, and then Beck take the reins, than the plan seems to be working a year earlier.

on Long, I get he created the 3-3-5, but this seems to be Long providing Dino a solid favor during a turbulent environment. plus, the guy people wanted to see learn from Long, and eventually take over, suddenly leaves ( i get your point on he has been here for a while).

on Monroe - who steps in from a recruiting standpoint, and can sell Syracuse like he has? He was here for 6 years (and even more with Dino personally) and thus, got to refine his Syracuse pitch. That's not easy to just hire someone who can step into those shoes and do that. Syracuse, as we all know, is a unique sell.


it's one thing when a program that is reeling off conference and national titles left and right loses assistants. That's to be expected.

 

[anomander]

You turn everything into a doon-and-gloom post about NIL. That’s fine, have at it if that’s how you want to approach things.

In this specific case we have a guy who was a position coach for 7 years who got a promotion to the state where he’s from. Like it or not, Minnesota always had more resources than SU. Or do we do not remember a certain AD who bolted for there a few years ago? And that was before NIL and the latest TV deal.

Look, maybe 5 years from now we’ll all look up from the Mad Max Fury Road-like wasteland that has become SU football and say “man, Anomander sure was right.” It’s possible.

I just don’t see the point in wallowing in misery about an unknown future, and wailing about everything that happens to SU as if the sky has fallen. It’s Nick Monroe, he’s a nice guy, good recruiter, and life will go on.

We’ll kick off on 9/2 and see how things go. Honestly I think we’ll be the same program 5 years from now as we are today.

Strange after reading most of your posts and others in this thread who actually have an idea of the current landscape it's almost as if you agree with me but since I'm actually saying it I'm the bad guy?

I’ve posted on here for over 10 years. Probably too much at times. I wouldn't consider myself a “Doom and gloom” poster. Sure I'm critical at times but I call it like I see it and don't sugar coat it. What is happening right now is not about Nick Monroe, or any specific player/coach. I think it's a pretty easy analysis to make that this is just the beginning of things exploding outside of Syracuse’s control and will only continue getting worse for a program that has already experienced 20+ years of “doom and gloom”. For a school that has historically had a hard time finding and developing more than 4-5 extremely talented athletes we are now going to have to deal with our best players being picked off before they reach the upperclassmen level which we need to compete. If you or anyone else thinks we are going to consistently fill the holes these players and coaches leave on an annual basis then you’re just lying to yourself. We aren’t TCU replacing their OC with another proven and successful OC, and we certainly aren’t Georgia or Alabama who can deal with several coaches and players leaving early since they have an abundance of it. The separation has started and is now in full swing…..but I think you know that already.

 

[PhatOrange]

Charles Kelly just left to go be the DC at Colorado. Josh Gattis left his Co-OC gig to be OC at Michigan. Doug Nussmeier had previously done the OC at Bama to OC at Michigan thing. Tosh Lupoi left to be DL coach for the Browns.

Net net, there's not "something off here." Anae didn't want to work with Dino and White / Monroe got more money.

And I don't think Babers wanted to work with Anea either. That parting was mutual for sure.

I mean Babers all but called out Anea in a presser after Tuckers 5 carry game. That's not something we see around Syracuse to much. At that point no amount of counseling was going to save the marriage.

 

[Scooch]

Strange after reading most of your posts and others in this thread who actually have an idea of the current landscape it's almost as if you agree with me but since I'm actually saying it I'm the bad guy?

I’ve posted on here for over 10 years. Probably too much at times. I wouldn't consider myself a “Doom and gloom” poster. Sure I'm critical at times but I call it like I see it and don't sugar coat it. What is happening right now is not about Nick Monroe, or any specific player/coach. I think it's a pretty easy analysis to make that this is just the beginning of things exploding outside of Syracuse’s control and will only continue getting worse for a program that has already experienced 20+ years of “doom and gloom”. For a school that has historically had a hard time finding and developing more than 4-5 extremely talented athletes we are now going to have to deal with our best players being picked off before they reach the upperclassmen level which we need to compete. If you or anyone else thinks we are going to consistently fill the holes these players and coaches leave on an annual basis then you’re just lying to yourself. We aren’t TCU replacing their OC with another proven and successful OC, and we certainly aren’t Georgia or Alabama who can deal with several coaches and players leaving early since they have an abundance of it. The separation has started and is now in full swing…..but I think you know that already.

All I'm saying is that you are speaking in absolutes that frame things in the worst possible way.

"this is just the beginning of things exploding outside of Syracuse’s control"

"we are now going to have to deal with our best players being picked off before they reach the upperclassmen level which we need to compete"

"If you or anyone else thinks we are going to consistently fill the holes these players and coaches leave on an annual basis then you’re just lying to yourself."

On the coaching front we've had a very unique offseason. If we lose Beck, Long and another staff member next year then we can start talking about trends. But make no mistake, staff will leave because staff always leaves.

As for "our best players being picked off"... again, this offseason has been unique in that regard, and we didn't lose ALL of our best players. If we lose a bunch of guys next season, then it'll be a trend and we can discuss it.

My point continues to be that no one knows precisely how each season will unfold. Claiming that our new normal is losing our 4-5 best players every year, plus our coordinators, seems a bit premature to me.

 

[tep624]

And I don't think Babers wanted to work with Anea. That parting was mutual for sure.

I mean Babers all but called out Anea in a presser after Tuckers 5 carry game. That's not something we see around Syracuse to much. At that point no amount of counseling was going to save the marriage.

Yeah Anae shouldn't even be part of this conversation. What happened with him happens.

 

[PhatOrange]

i think it's fair to say the board would agree that these were 3 of our TOP assistants.

Not in my opinion. Everybody will have a different opinion, but I think White was #1. Not only as a coordinator but his Linebackers have been awesome. Anea was better than Gilbert but not as good as Sean Lewis.

#1 White
#2a West - our cornerback play has been spectacular. Iffy, Trill, Williams, Duce ...Johnson has been awesome. Hard to argue.
#2b Beck - small sample size but Shrader was way better than last year at the most important position.
#3 Achuff - his LBs first and then DL has been nothing short of awesome. Darton was a walkon. This is the guy who's a good candidate to be the next DC.
#4 Anea
#5 Lynch - whole body of work. Co-OC, OL and RB. His units have performed.
#6 Monroe - he's here because of our last two safeties Carter and Cisco. But his units were not strong prior to that.
#7 Schmidt - last year OL was better. this year regressed. Maybe that was Anea's doing. We'll see what the bounce back is.
#8 Johnson - I like Johnson but his unit has been underwhelming to date. Small sample size 1 season.

 

[kcsu]

You mean something seems off, like our head coach is only hanging on because the buyout is too high? The guy has 1 year left on his contract. Lame duck head coach doesn't exactly promote job security for his assistants.

and we have a winner

 

[kcsu]

fair, and not trying to be crazy headed.

if Anae was only going to be here for 2 years, and then Beck take the reins, than the plan seems to be working a year earlier.

on Long, I get he created the 3-3-5, but this seems to be Long providing Dino a solid favor during a turbulent environment. plus, the guy people wanted to see learn from Long, and eventually take over, suddenly leaves ( i get your point on he has been here for a while).

on Monroe - who steps in from a recruiting standpoint, and can sell Syracuse like he has? He was here for 6 years (and even more with Dino personally) and thus, got to refine his Syracuse pitch. That's not easy to just hire someone who can step into those shoes and do that. Syracuse, as we all know, is a unique sell.


it's one thing when a program that is reeling off conference and national titles left and right loses assistants. That's to beN expected.

Swag is on a first name basis with every important coach in FL NY and Jersey. He is a massive loss

 

[money3189]

All I'm saying is that you are speaking in absolutes that frame things in the worst possible way.

"this is just the beginning of things exploding outside of Syracuse’s control"

"we are now going to have to deal with our best players being picked off before they reach the upperclassmen level which we need to compete"

"If you or anyone else thinks we are going to consistently fill the holes these players and coaches leave on an annual basis then you’re just lying to yourself."

On the coaching front we've had a very unique offseason. If we lose Beck, Long and another staff member next year then we can start talking about trends. But make no mistake, staff will leave because staff always leaves.

As for "our best players being picked off"... again, this offseason has been unique in that regard, and we didn't lose ALL of our best players. If we lose a bunch of guys next season, then it'll be a trend and we can discuss it.

My point continues to be that no one knows precisely how each season will unfold. Claiming that our new normal is losing our 4-5 best players every year, plus our coordinators, seems a bit premature to me.

Some dudes will say extreme things just to get attention.

 

[anomander]

Some dudes will say extreme things just to get attention.

What’s extreme about it? Reading your posts in the thread you seem to be in full agreement with me. You’re just not saying it.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

apologies,, bad wording... i meant "throw out" as in can use those as examples, only to say Alabama might be the exception, but to compare SU to Bama doesn't seem fair. i did not mean you can't use them as examples. confusing, i know

I'm only adding this because it's topical, not because I'm trying to dig a heel in.

 

[PhatOrange]

I'm only adding this because it's topical, not because I'm trying to dig a heel in.

Alabama to Ole Miss? No way ;-)

 

[money3189]

What’s extreme about it? Reading your posts in the thread you seem to be in full agreement with me. You’re just not saying it.

If you are constantly defending your take to people about your posts it tells me you like to say things that entices a response. Thats my opinion.