I suppose with a new AD on the horizon you could say that Shafer is on the "hot seat"

[elimunelson]

You guys understand we have two cupcakes on the schedule. Am I hearing everyone right that Shafer is no doubt about it coming back if we win 2 of the other 10 games??? That would be an incredible season with all those consecutive losses to end the season. Mark my words, if the season ends on such a swoon the recruits aren't sticking around, SS or not.

He needs to win 6 games IMO to feel any sort of comfort for 2016.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

If the M.O. becomes get a new coach every 4 years, SU won't progress beyond mediocrity at best.

 

[retro44]

As a fanbase we have a lot here that has an inferiority complex. And what do they bring to the table? Absolutely nothing,zero,nada.!!!!!

 

[Ringostar57]

All the SS naysayers: You would have been screaming to fire Coach MacPherson after 2 or 3 seasons and if that happened no 1987. Patience. Unlike most of you I do not have much time left but i am patient. It takes time to build something special of value while junk can be manufactured overnight. There are no quick fixes.

 

[bcubs9497]

I realize that you have a different investment in this coaching staff, but you also need to understand that Syracuse football fans haven't had a ton to cheer for in a long time. We've been incredibly patient and frankly many can't stand for two straight years without a bowl game, even if it's "unfair" to the coaches.

Not to be rude, but anything short of 6 wins this year and I'll ready to turn the page.

It takes time to take a program that has basically sucked for years, and turn it into a perennial top 25 contender. Anyone expecting a 7-8 win season this year, or for the next two years, is probably expecting too much, too soon. Personally, I think it's going to take at least a year for the 2015 class of recruits to make a significant impact; they're young kids after all, and have a lot to learn. And it'll be the same for each successive class.

Let's see how HCSS and his staff develop the 2015 class, and see how they do with recruiting in 2016 and 2017. Going close to .500 (6-6 or 5-7) this year, and 7-5 in 2016 with a bowl game, I think, would be a good measure of success. Couple that with good recruiting classes for 2016 and 2017 and I can see 8-4 or 9-3 by 2018/2019 with a good chance at being ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season.

 

[bcubs9497]

As a fanbase we have a lot here that has an inferiority complex. And what do they bring to the tale? Absolutely nothing,zero,nada.!!!!!

Yep. Being a winner takes patience, persistence, and stability.

 

[elimunelson]

It takes time to take a program that has basically sucked for years, and turn it into a perennial top 25 contender. Anyone expecting a 7-8 win season this year, or for the next two years, is deluding themselves. Personally, I think it's going to take at least a year for the 2015 class of recruits to make a significant impact; they're young kids after all, and have a lot to learn. And it'll be the same for each successive class.

Let's see how HCSS and his staff develop the 2015 class, and see how they do with recruiting in 2016 and 2017. Going close to .500 (6-6 or 5-7) this year, and 7-5 in 2016 with a bowl game, I think, would be a good measure of success. Couple that with good recruiting classes for 2016 and 2017 and I can see 8-4 or 9-3 by 2018 with a shot at being ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season.

This is all under the assumption that you considered Marrone's tenure a period where we sucked. I don't b/c my expectations are that of a abused football victim. I now just want 7-8 win seasons. Marrone did that and Shafer has turned that into a barely eligible bowl team (one play from not being one) and a completely useless 2014 season.

So to full circle this, if we get this team to your preferred place in 2016, we are back where we started before SS took over.

Bottom line, we need better immediately.

 

[baggerbob]

It takes time to take a program that has basically sucked for years, and turn it into a perennial top 25 contender. Anyone expecting a 7-8 win season this year, or for the next two years, is deluding themselves. Personally, I think it's going to take at least a year for the 2015 class of recruits to make a significant impact; they're young kids after all, and have a lot to learn. And it'll be the same for each successive class.

Let's see how HCSS and his staff develop the 2015 class, and see how they do with recruiting in 2016 and 2017. Going close to .500 (6-6 or 5-7) this year, and 7-5 in 2016 with a bowl game, I think, would be a good measure of success. Couple that with good recruiting classes for 2016 and 2017 and I can see 8-4 or 9-3 by 2018 with a shot at being ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season.

There is a group of fans, who would have gotten rid of Ben, and Mac, before they had a chance to bring success to the program. I've been a fan since Jim was here, and seen the good, and bad, so i have patience to stick with a good man for a few years. Scott does it the right way, Students, as well as Athletes.

 

[bcubs9497]

Another thing about canning a coach after only a few years; other coaches, ones who don't suck, will be reluctant to take a job here. You'll end up with a succession of Charlie Weiss's.

 

[bcubs9497]

This is all under the assumption that you considered Marrone's tenure a period where we sucked. I don't b/c my expectations are that of a abused football victim. I now just want 7-8 win seasons. Marrone did that and Shafer has turned that into a barely eligible bowl team (one play from not being one) and a completely useless 2014 season.

So to full circle this, if we get this team to your preferred place in 2016, we are back where we started before SS took over.

Bottom line, we need better immediately.

I really don't know anything about the Marrone period, and I really don't care. It's in the past.

If you want immediatecy, great. I guarantee you that it won't happen.

Unless y'all are willing to pony up a shtload of money, and are willing to overlook "questionable" behavior (domestic assaults, sexual assaults, theft, drunk and disorderlys, etc) to become an SEC type team.

 

[elimunelson]

I really don't know anything about the Marrone period, and I really don't care. It's in the past.

If you want immediatecy, great. I guarantee you that it won't happen.

SS was Marrone's D Coordinator. He took over with maximum momentum from the Pinstripe victory and is now in year 3 of the extension of Marrone's tenure (since he was part of that one). We're on a downward trajectory again.

If we can turn it around this year, he's my guy for sure. But another 4 win season I fail to see how a new AD is going to back this guy. Worse case he doesn't fire him and he sits on the hottest hot seat we've seen since GROB in 2008.

There are ZERO excuses for SS at this point (and this program really).

 

[bcubs9497]

SS was Marrone's D Coordinator. He took over with maximum momentum from the Pinstripe victory and is now in year 3 of the extension of Marrone's tenure (since he was part of that one). We're on a downward trajectory again.

If we can turn it around this year, he's my guy for sure. But another 4 win season I fail to see how a new AD is going to back this guy. Worse case he doesn't fire him and he sits on the hottest hot seat we've seen since GROB in 2008.

There are ZERO excuses for SS at this point (and this program really).

Yeah.

Impatience; the road to mediocrity.

 

[Full_Rebar]

You know what else leads to mediocrity- accepting it as the standard. One bowl in 3 years is cause enough for change- especially if it's another year of inept offense in an era where almost everyone else can put points on the board. I'm sorry, but this isn't pessimism, this is realism.

As far as this coaching job not being appealing- How many teams are playing in a BCS conference these days? How many coaches would love a shot at one of those jobs? Anyone who thinks that Syracuse would struggle to find a coach should ask if they are the pessimistic ones.

 

[Orangezoo]

Obviously the NFL is a different animal than college football but I would cite Tom Coughlin and Jason Garrett as a good examples of why we should be patient. It takes time to build a methodology that is in the DNA of an entire team and organization. You have to look for the signs pointing to growth and improvement. On the recruiting front there is a great deal of positive to talk about. Good recruiting builds up programs. Accepting making a bowl game as success is setting the bar too low. If pain and a non-bowl season is the pre-cursor to building a top 25 caliber program where it becomes about "which" bowl vs "a" bowl then sign me up for a few more years of getting a foundation system to build upon for the future.

I am not a native NY'er but close enough growing up in Northeast PA and being a cuse alum. So I get the success is expected piece. That said, it is too early IMHO to be saying hot seat just yet. Too many wins on the recruiting front, the IPF, coming off a season that while it was rough it was also a brutal schedule where we bit off more than we could chew. At a minimum Shafer deserves 2 more years to get his system up and running including RW's frosh year. And I will stress the use of the term "minimum" here.

 

[Alsacs]

You know what else leads to mediocrity- accepting it as the standard. One bowl in 3 years is cause enough for change- especially if it's another year of inept offense in an era where almost everyone else can put points on the board. I'm sorry, but this isn't pessimism, this is realism.

As far as this coaching job not being appealing- How many teams are playing in a BCS conference these days? How many coaches would love a shot at one of those jobs? Anyone who thinks that Syracuse would struggle to find a coach should ask if they are the pessimistic ones.

RW was recruited by DeAndre Smith and Eric White. It is not like this commitment was done by SS exclusively as well. If we don't go bowling and we keep SS we are basically saying mediocrity is acceptable. I want SS to succeed, but the guy has got to show he is the main for the future.

 

[TheCusian]

You know what else leads to mediocrity- accepting it as the standard. One bowl in 3 years is cause enough for change- especially if it's another year of inept offense in an era where almost everyone else can put points on the board. I'm sorry, but this isn't pessimism, this is realism. As far as this coaching job not being appealing- How many teams are playing in a BCS conference these days? How many coaches would love a shot at one of those jobs? Anyone who thinks that Syracuse would struggle to find a coach should ask if they are the pessimistic ones.

This is my favorite. How are we accepting mediocrity, exactly?

I'm fed up and want us to be relevant - I'm addicted to the recruiting board - but pulling the plug this early is wrong.

Also you've never seen Lester's offense. Not sure how you can draw conclusions and call it realism - there is no way that's not pessimism.

 

[bcubs9497]

You know what else leads to mediocrity- accepting it as the standard. One bowl in 3 years is cause enough for change- especially if it's another year of inept offense in an era where almost everyone else can put points on the board. I'm sorry, but this isn't pessimism, this is realism.

As far as this coaching job not being appealing- How many teams are playing in a BCS conference these days? How many coaches would love a shot at one of those jobs? Anyone who thinks that Syracuse would struggle to find a coach should ask if they are the pessimistic ones.

Who said anything about accepting the last few years as standard? Not me. What I've been saying all along is that it takes time to build a fcked up program into one that is consistently relevant. To be consistently relevant, it takes time.

 

[Full_Rebar]

This is my favorite. How are we accepting mediocrity, exactly?

I'm fed up and want us to be relevant - I'm addicted to the recruiting board - but pulling the plug this early is wrong.

Also you've never seen Lester's offense. Not sure how you can draw conclusions and call it realism - there is no way that's not pessimism.

People who think Shafer should get more time if he has 3 seasons where he made one bowl game (on the final play) would be accepting mediocrity (or worse). I'm saying that not making a bowl game and not showing demonstrated offensive improvement should signal time for a change.

Of course I am speaking in terms of what-if scenario, isn't that the point of this thread? When is a reasonable time frame to admit that you might be able to do better? How long does a coach need to get for his staff, his system, his recruits, to produce results against a realistic schedule?

 

[Domedog84]

This is all under the assumption that you considered Marrone's tenure a period where we sucked. I don't b/c my expectations are that of a abused football victim. I now just want 7-8 win seasons. Marrone did that and Shafer has turned that into a barely eligible bowl team (one play from not being one) and a completely useless 2014 season.

So to full circle this, if we get this team to your preferred place in 2016, we are back where we started before SS took over.

Bottom line, we need better immediately.

Marrone was here 4 years and won 8 games twice. The first time we played two FCS teams. The second we got lucky in several games, especially USF. The other two seasons he won 5 or less games. We can give him a pass on his first year, but his third was a great start coupled with a huge let down the second half of the season. So Shafer has given us one bowl year and one dud, but you are ready to label his tenure so vastly different from Doug's? Don't we want to at least see four years of Shafer?

 

[bcubs9497]

People who think Shafer should get more time if he has 3 seasons where he made one bowl game (on the final play) would be accepting mediocrity (or worse). I'm saying that not making a bowl game and not showing demonstrated offensive improvement should signal time for a change.

Of course I am speaking in terms of what-if scenario, isn't that the point of this thread? When is a reasonable time frame to admit that you might be able to do better? How long does a coach need to get for his staff, his system, his recruits, to produce results against a realistic schedule?

2015 will be HCSS third year as head coach. His recruiting classes are 2014 and 2015. Obviously, 2015 hasn't even seen the field, and most of the 2014 class was probably red-shirted. Shafer hasn't even had a chance yet to field HIS team, with HIS recruits. Maybe we should be a bit more patient and see how things pan out.

 

[bcubs9497]

SS was Marrone's D Coordinator. He took over with maximum momentum from the Pinstripe victory and is now in year 3 of the extension of Marrone's tenure (since he was part of that one). We're on a downward trajectory again.

If we can turn it around this year, he's my guy for sure. But another 4 win season I fail to see how a new AD is going to back this guy. Worse case he doesn't fire him and he sits on the hottest hot seat we've seen since GROB in 2008.

There are ZERO excuses for SS at this point (and this program really).

So, I would assume that you're not a fan of what Shafer and his staff did with the D during the "Marrone Era"?

 

[JrodCuse]

First off, we've went to bowl games in 2 out of the last 3 years. So stop acting like we're some god awful garbage team. Those days are behind us. Last year we had more injuries than I've ever seen to a football team at any level. This year will be telling but all you negative douches get old and tired real quick. Have some damn optimism for just once in your life. Try it. I dare you.

 

[TheCusian]

People who think Shafer should get more time if he has 3 seasons where he made one bowl game (on the final play) would be accepting mediocrity (or worse). I'm saying that not making a bowl game and not showing demonstrated offensive improvement should signal time for a change. Of course I am speaking in terms of what-if scenario, isn't that the point of this thread? When is a reasonable time frame to admit that you might be able to do better? How long does a coach need to get for his staff, his system, his recruits, to produce results against a realistic schedule?

Well - his first class was a cobbled together Marrone class. His first class had a bunch of guys jump into the two-deep. His second class is poised to do that this year (including a few guys who turned down wiscy, Florida, and Michigan) And he got a commitment from a high 4-star and we're poised to bring back #44 and there are a dozen guys that are suddenly interested in us. A bunch of 2017 guys are interested.

We've not had a snap of Lester's offense. Our defense ranges from good to average all of the SS years.

IF Lester's offense is as bad as we ended the year or doesn't jump from where it was - I might begin to get pessimistic.

And finally - I joined this board around the time Marrone lost to Minnesota, Rutgers, Cinci - with a senior QB. There were tons of posters throwing in the towel on Marrone and his OC. Then we know what happened next. Things change too quick in football to throw in the towel on SS.

 

[Alsacs]

2015 will be HCSS third year as head coach. His recruiting classes are 2014 and 2015. Obviously, 2015 hasn't even seen the field, and most of the 2014 class was probably red-shirted. Shafer hasn't even had a chance yet to field HIS team, with HIS recruits. Maybe we should be a bit more patient and see how things pan out.

So does DM get credit for SS's 2013 season. All those kids were DM recruits and he went 7-6. SS still has a lot to prove or he would been extended already.

 

[bcubs9497]

So does DM get credit for SS's 2013 season. All those kids were DM recruits and he went 7-6. SS still has a lot to prove or he would been extended already.

Yes. As well, Shafer deserves credit for the defense.