I suppose with a new AD on the horizon you could say that Shafer is on the "hot seat"

[Cusefan95]

I realize that you have a different investment in this coaching staff, but you also need to understand that Syracuse football fans haven't had a ton to cheer for in a long time. We've been incredibly patient and frankly many can't stand for two straight years without a bowl game, even if it's "unfair" to the coaches.

Not to be rude, but anything short of 6 wins this year and I'll ready to turn the page.

...and this here is exactly why any successful coach at Syracuse would be absolute insane to NOT leave as soon as a better offer is on the table - and why the folks still bitter about Doug are nuts. Syracuse is a school where you get to an 8-9 win season and Adios before you regress at all and have fans calling for you to be fired.

 

[CuseOnly]

...and this here is exactly why any successful coach at Syracuse would be absolute insane to NOT leave as soon as a better offer is on the table - and why the folks still bitter about Doug are nuts. Syracuse is a school where you get to an 8-9 win season and Adios before you regress at all and have fans calling for you to be fired.

It's pretty much the same at every school, we are not unique and neither is the situation.

 

[CuseOnly]

Sounds good. Top 40 recruiting class and 7 wins is my bet.

I am gunning for 8 wins and top 30 recruiting class

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I have to believe a new AD will have some strong opinions on how this program has evolved and, unfortunately, devolved in some areas. The arguments on getting/deserving a 4th year won't matter if he hangs another 4 win season on the program. In fact, I think the bias will be against TGD's hirings/decisions.

The unfortunate state of the program is that this isn't a matter of SS having enough time to implement his program; this is about him proving he is competent to run a middle of the pack ACC program (much less a rising one).

 

[elimunelson]

I have to believe a new AD will have some strong opinions on how this program has evolved and, unfortunately, devolved in some areas. The arguments on getting/deserving a 4th year won't matter if he hangs another 4 win season on the program. In fact, I think the bias will be against TGD's hirings/decisions.

The unfortunate state of the program is that this isn't a matter of SS having enough time to implement his program; this is about him proving he is competent to run a middle of the pack ACC program (much less a rising one).

People seem to forget that Shafer fell into this job. He was the default hire when Marrone left. To me this is no different than many other guys who have fallen into jobs (Stewart at WVU, Rutgers coach, etc). I have a much smaller leash for a guy like this than someone brought in who is completely new to the program. When a team comes out THAT flat vs Villanova to set the tone of the season, that is 100% on the HC. He failed there. Let's hope he figures it out.

I think we need to analyze Shafer in light of that factor. The AD, i'm sure, will analyze in light of that factor as well.

 

[bcubs9497]

People seem to forget that Shafer fell into this job. He was the default hire when Marrone left. To me this is no different than many other guys who have fallen into jobs (Stewart at WVU, Rutgers coach, etc). I have a much smaller leash for a guy like this than someone brought in who is completely new to the program. When a team comes out THAT flat vs Villanova to set the tone of the season, that is 100% on the HC. He failed there. Let's hope he figures it out.

I think we need to analyze Shafer in light of that factor. The AD, i'm sure, will analyze in light of that factor as well.

Yeah. Right.

I have nothing more to say...

 

[elimunelson]

Yeah. Right.

I have nothing more to say...

u understand no one else interviewed for the job? You already have said you didn't follow the Marrone era so i'm just giving some context to my opinion. I respect your opinion here and hope u are right. I'm just saying i've been around this program for 25 years (which to some around here makes me a newbie) and got a good feeling for when the gig may or may not be up.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

People seem to forget that Shafer fell into this job. He was the default hire when Marrone left. To me this is no different than many other guys who have fallen into jobs (Stewart at WVU, Rutgers coach, etc). I have a much smaller leash for a guy like this than someone brought in who is completely new to the program. When a team comes out THAT flat vs Villanova to set the tone of the season, that is 100% on the HC. He failed there. Let's hope he figures it out.

I think we need to analyze Shafer in light of that factor. The AD, i'm sure, will analyze in light of that factor as well.

You are exactly right as to the first sentence. I've been told that TGD was absolutely befuddled and unprepared for the process.

 

[TheCusian]

You are exactly right as to the first sentence. I've been told that TGD was absolutely befuddled and unprepared for the process.

Doesn't mean he's not worthy or not up to the job, either.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Doesn't mean he's not worthy or not up to the job, either.

I wouldn't disagree with that statement, but would say that it would then require Gross to be lucky in order to get it right. I honestly hope he was lucky.

 

[baggerbob]

u understand no one else interviewed for the job? You already have said you didn't follow the Marrone era so i'm just giving some context to my opinion. I respect your opinion here and hope u are right. I'm just saying i've been around this program for 25 years (which to some around here makes me a newbie) and got a good feeling for when the gig may or may not be up.

At 25 years, you weren't even here for the beginning of either Ben, or Mac, and that's probably just as well. You would have been saying they should have been replaced, before we got to 1959, or 1987. Ben had 2 good years in his first 9, and Mac had 1 bowl game in his first 6. Ben's season 11 we went 11-0, Mac's season 7 we went 11-0-1. Come back in a couple of years, and then I'll talk to you, until then I'm done with this discussion. Yes you are a newbie at 25 years, but that's what's fun, as you get older you develop patience, you realize nothing happens immediately.

 

[rosconey]

cant stand the give him time like mac got arguments-
hcss didnt inherit the same type of program as mac did- i was never a sac mac man because i could see growth and improvement -

this argument was also used as justification to keep robinson around-

the new ad will base his decision on his criteria -not ours or jake's or gross's

 

[OrangeXtreme]

cant stand the give him time like mac got arguments-
hcss didnt inherit the same type of program as mac did- i was never a sac mac man because i could see growth and improvement -

this argument was also used as justification to keep robinson around-

the new ad will base his decision on his criteria -not ours or jake's or gross's

Mac was 6-15-1 after two seasons. You saw growth and improvement.

Shafer is 10-15, and played half a season without his starting QB. And you want to pull the plug.

If you were willing to give Mac enough time, why not Shafer?

 

[GoSU96]

You are exactly right as to the first sentence. I've been told that TGD was absolutely befuddled and unprepared for the process.

The fact that he was caught flat-footed isn't a surprise. My guess is he thought he had all the leverage in the world and there was no risk to change, unless he was the one making it.

As for hiring Shafer, or Hackett for that matter, perfectly reasonable thing to do. Shafer was a proven coordinator, had been integral to rebuilding the program, including recruiting.

As for judging his performance, the whole needs time "his guys" is a bit much. The guys already on the roster were "his guys". Also, he didn't inherit a disaster. The offense finished ranked 17th, the defense 48th. The team smoked a top 10 Lville team, whipped WVU, beat a SEC team in a night road game. The second half of the year it was performing at a top 20 level.

This job was not a rebuild, it was to continue improvement and development, he wasn't starting from scratch. He made one massively bad hire that has set the program back, hopefully Lester can fix it. The offense didn't need to sustain the level it was at in 2012, but it shouldn't have fallen off the cliff like it did.

I don't think he is safe, no questions asked. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that's he out. But I'd expect he's under pressure to show legitimate improvement. There's more than win/loss record in that evaluation.

 

[rosconey]

Mac was 6-15-1 after two seasons. You saw growth and improvement.

Shafer is 10-15, and played half a season without his starting QB. And you want to pull the plug.

If you were willing to give Mac enough time, why not Shafer?

we werent coming from the same place - how can you not see or understand that-

 

[OrangeXtreme]

we werent coming from the same place - how can you not see or understand that-

Are we better than 3-9 if Hunt stays healthy for the whole season?

If we went 6-6 last year instead of 3-9, are people still pushing the panic button?

 

[jekelish]

The offense finished ranked 17th, the defense 48th. The team smoked a top 10 Lville team, whipped WVU, beat a SEC team in a night road game. The second half of the year it was performing at a top 20 level.

That's a little misleading, don't you think? Yes, the team did all that on offense. But then they also lost: 1) a 3 year, record setting QB; 2) a record setting WR; 3) the offensive coordinator; 4) the RB coach; 5) the WR coach...do I need to go on? The offense was DECIMATED between '12 and '13. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. It's kind of a miracle we won 7 games in 2013 with how little there was in the cupboard on offense, outside of Jerome Smith.

 

[bcubs9497]

cant stand the give him time like mac got arguments-
hcss didnt inherit the same type of program as mac did- i was never a sac mac man because i could see growth and improvement -

this argument was also used as justification to keep robinson around-

the new ad will base his decision on his criteria -not ours or jake's or gross's

Never mind.

 

[CuseLegacy]

At 25 years, you weren't even here for the beginning of either Ben, or Mac, and that's probably just as well. You would have been saying they should have been replaced, before we got to 1959, or 1987. Ben had 2 good years in his first 9, and Mac had 1 bowl game in his first 6. Ben's season 11 we went 11-0, Mac's season 7 we went 11-0-1. Come back in a couple of years, and then I'll talk to you, until then I'm done with this discussion. Yes you are a newbie at 25 years, but that's what's fun, as you get older you develop patience, you realize nothing happens immediately.

LOL.. no he would never have survived sitting outside in the elements watching Maloney.

 

[GoSU96]

That's a little misleading, don't you think? Yes, the team did all that on offense. But then they also lost: 1) a 3 year, record setting QB; 2) a record setting WR; 3) the offensive coordinator; 4) the RB coach; 5) the WR coach...do I need to go on? The offense was DECIMATED between '12 and '13. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. It's kind of a miracle we won 7 games in 2013 with how little there was in the cupboard on offense, outside of Jerome Smith.

Not in the least.

I specifically said that expecting the offense to sustain the performance was unreasonable in 2013. Thing is what was obvious to everyone, that the run game was the strength of the offense was true, everyone except McF**it. They actually ran the ball better in '13, once they committed to the run. Instead they wanted to be a pass heavy team, which required taking a flyer on 5th year transfer, instead of going with a strong armed, decent running QB.

The offense wasn't decimated. They returned three starters on the OL with experienced backups stepping in, the TE, the entire running back unit, and multiple WR's with substantial experience. What killed them was scrapping what worked and not tailoring it to what was on the roster and trying to switch to whatever it was MacDonald was trying to do.

The collapse was by choice, not necessity.

 

[TheCusian]

cant stand the give him time like mac got arguments- hcss didnt inherit the same type of program as mac did- i was never a sac mac man because i could see growth and improvement - this argument was also used as justification to keep robinson around- the new ad will base his decision on his criteria -not ours or jake's or gross's

Yeah - the worst is saying "we gave Robinson more time so let's not do that with Shafer" - like they are the same.

 

[TheCusian]

The fact that he was caught flat-footed isn't a surprise. My guess is he thought he had all the leverage in the world and there was no risk to change, unless he was the one making it. As for hiring Shafer, or Hackett for that matter, perfectly reasonable thing to do. Shafer was a proven coordinator, had been integral to rebuilding the program, including recruiting. As for judging his performance, the whole needs time "his guys" is a bit much. The guys already on the roster were "his guys". Also, he didn't inherit a disaster. The offense finished ranked 17th, the defense 48th. The team smoked a top 10 Lville team, whipped WVU, beat a SEC team in a night road game. The second half of the year it was performing at a top 20 level. This job was not a rebuild, it was to continue improvement and development, he wasn't starting from scratch. He made one massively bad hire that has set the program back, hopefully Lester can fix it. The offense didn't need to sustain the level it was at in 2012, but it shouldn't have fallen off the cliff like it did. I don't think he is safe, no questions asked. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that's he out. But I'd expect he's under pressure to show legitimate improvement. There's more than win/loss record in that evaluation.

1. The offense fell off a cliff for two reasons: McDonald (which is on Shafer) and losing a QB and OC to the NFL. Marrone failed to recruit a great option at QB and left us without any coaching from #17 offense but a WR coach.

2. The guys who are juniors and seniors on the offensive side of the ball are not his guys. You could argue the defensive guys are his (though Chauncy Scissum didn't have an offer before Marrone left and was the first to get one when Marrone left.)

3. To be fair - the offense for McDonalds first year was good enough to win 7 games ... And looked like it was Hunt was going to be good following that win. Why McDonald failed last season was largely red zone issues and playcalling - and whatever combination of that with his stellar personality - got him demoted. New system, new QB and new QB transfer, new OC, new QB coach, new HC, new conference. And we went to a bowl. It's still crazy to me that it went THAT well. So - given all those variables - did it fall off a cliff or did it over achieve?

4. Every coach of an under .500 team is under pressure to get better. Where we agree is that if the offensive system shows life and improvement, the defense regresses a touch and we finish with 4-5 wins - he will have shown enough.

 

[TheCusian]

Not in the least. I specifically said that expecting the offense to sustain the performance was unreasonable in 2013. Thing is what was obvious to everyone, that the run game was the strength of the offense was true, everyone except McF**it. They actually ran the ball better in '13, once they committed to the run. Instead they wanted to be a pass heavy team, which required taking a flyer on 5th year transfer, instead of going with a strong armed, decent running QB. The offense wasn't decimated. They returned three starters on the OL with experienced backups stepping in, the TE, the entire running back unit, and multiple WR's with substantial experience. What killed them was scrapping what worked and not tailoring it to what was on the roster and trying to switch to whatever it was MacDonald was trying to do. The collapse was by choice, not necessity.

Continently left out replacing a guy who is in the NFL with a guy who is generally assumed to be a better runner than passer...

 

[Ozcuse]

I think the major philosophy difference between Marrone's offense and McDonald was Marrone wanted to build an offense around the existing strengths of the team and McDonald (especially year 2) wanted to "square peg/round hole" what the unique/successful offenses were doing (Clemson, Oregon, Baylor) without having the ideal personnel to run it.

Hopefully Lester has taken stock of what we have and developed an offense around it and isn't falling into the same philosophical mistakes that McDonald made.

Early Prediction: Offense is better, defense is worse. Worst case 4-8, best case 6-7/7-6.

Shafer gets year 4, tweaks assistant coach roster.

 

[GoSU96]

Continently left out replacing a guy who is in the NFL with a guy who is generally assumed to be a better runner than passer...

Huh?