I think were ranked too low

[TheCusian]

Care to show your work? Just curious.

Sure. No time to dig for numbers but off the top of my head:

HOF, 900+ wins vs zilch
Worse talent in better conference vs top 10 recruiting classes forever in worse conference
In his time at KU, Self has way more NCAA implosions than JB

 

[HOFCeluck]

Sure. No time to dig for numbers but off the top of my head:

HOF, 900+ wins vs zilch Kind of an absurd comparison since one coach has coached twice as long as the other...and Self is a near-lock for the HOF.

Worse talent in better conference vs top 10 recruiting classes forever in worse conference I agree...it's easier to draw talent to KU...plus JB all but built SU into a power whereas KU would be a blueblood with or without Self.

In his time at KU, Self has way more NCAA implosions than JB There's no way that's true.

 

[Cuse4ever]

Do you think that MSU and KU have better talent than SU this year or just better coaches?

Both

 

[jordoo]

Both

LOL, OK! We are all entitled to our opinions and I can see how someone might think that way but I don't agree on either part with either team or coach.

 

[Cuse4ever]

Some do some don't. Like JB, some shorten the bench in big games. Like Duke. The 2 winningest coaches.

Name 1 top team that only has one center with the primary backup not trusted to get more than 3 mins against a lower tier D1 team. Roc has gotten into foul trouble every game this year, against equally matched teams I'm guessing it won't improve much. Don't bother responding because your Bud Poliquin-esque quips are pointless and too Boeheim is the Greatest focused.

 

[Cuse4ever]

LOL, OK! We are all entitled to our opinions and I can see how someone might think that way but I don't agree on either part with either team or coach.

It's all opinion but what makes Boeheim better than Self or Izzo? Please don't say total wins because Self is much younger & Izzo plays the toughest schedule year in year out.

 

[TheCusian]

Point 1: Not absurd at all - a part of being a better coach is longevity and sustained success over that time. There is one other coach who can say that and he's not Bill Self.

Point 3:
Since the 2003-2004 season Self at Kansas has lost to #14 Bucknell, #13 Bradley in the 1st round. They have losses to #9 Northern Iowa, #11 VCU, #10 Stanford.

Since 2003-04 JB has lost to #13 Vermont, #12 Texas A&M in the first round. They also lost to #11 Marquette and #11 Dayton.

On the whole they are probably even. Point goes to docsu

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's all opinion but what makes Boeheim better than Self or Izzo? Please don't say total wins because Self is much younger & Izzo plays the toughest schedule year in year out.

It's amazing how many people just involuntarily yell "900 wins!" "HOF!" without giving any thought whatsoever

 

[TheCusian]

It's all opinion but what makes Boeheim better than Self or Izzo? Please don't say total wins because Self is much younger & Izzo plays the toughest schedule year in year out.

Love how total wins doesn't count - like doing it at an elite level for longer is easy. Or that Self and Izzo are guaranteed 900 wins somehow. It's like saying Peyton Manning isn't a better QB than Luck - because Luck is younger.

 

[TheCusian]

It's amazing how many people just involuntarily yell "900 wins!" "HOF!" without giving any thought whatsoever

Until Self or Izzo can claim those numbers - JB and K win that argument.

 

[jordoo]

It's all opinion but what makes Boeheim better than Self or Izzo? Please don't say total wins because Self is much younger & Izzo plays the toughest schedule year in year out.

Well first and foremost I'm a Syracuse fan which makes me biased. So if its even close I'm leaning toward SU and JB. I am also not discounting wins as its kind of the object of the game and continued excellence in both numbers of wins and winning percentage over an extremely long period of time in D1 basketball is very rare. If you cannot acknowledge the greatness and rarity of accomplishment its pointless to argue with you about it really.

 

[jordoo]

It's amazing how many people just involuntarily yell "900 wins!" "HOF!" without giving any thought whatsoever

Also amazing how some completely dismiss it as if its meaningless.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Also amazing how some completely dismiss it as if its meaningless.

It's not meaningless, but it is in no way fair or objective to compare total wins between coaches when two have been coaching half as long as the other, and then use it as some arbiter of who the better coach is.

...you could always compare final fours or titles over equivalent time spans, but for whatever reason, that's not as popular.

 

[jordoo]

It's not meaningless, but it is in no way fair or objective to compare total wins between coaches when two have been coaching half as long as the other, and then use it as some arbiter of who the better coach is.

...you could always compare final fours or titles over equivalent time spans, but for whatever reason, that's not as popular.

It may not be fair but its an accomplishment that very few will ever reach and it absolutely does matter. Its obviously not the only thing to consider but if you aren't going to consider it then why bother with a comparison to begin with.

 

[TheCusian]

It's not meaningless, but it is in no way fair or objective to compare total wins between coaches when two have been coaching half as long as the other, and then use it as some arbiter of who the better coach is.

...you could always compare final fours or titles over equivalent time spans, but for whatever reason, that's not as popular.

It's not as popular because it's discounting 3/4ths of the information. Titles and FF's vs Longevity as a barometer for success is a fun argument - but we're talking in total - all the info available.

(and for the record I think Izzo is as fine a coach. Self is the one I disagree with).

 

[Cuse4ever]

It’s way too early to tell anything. The fact that UConn won last year should go to show that anything can happen once you get into the tournament. They could play last year’s tournament over 1,000 times and UConn wouldn’t win again. Like most years, this year we are in the mix with a shot to make a run. That’s all you can really ask for year to year.

We should all stop dumping on the UConnvicts as much as most of us love it. 4 Titles in 20 years is phenomenal even if a couple were against lousy Final Four teams. They got hot last year and beat good teams, no shame in that title. BTW - Calhoun is a POS scumbag.

 

[Cuse4ever]

Until Self or Izzo can claim those numbers - JB and K win that argument.

Budweiser sells the most beer, does that make it the best beer in the market?

 

[Cuse4ever]

Also amazing how some completely dismiss it as if its meaningless.

What's Boeheim record against the Top 25 verse other coaches? I'm too lazy to look it up but my guess is it's good but it's not top 5 or even top 10 percentage wise like his overal total wines (#2 all-time).

 

[HOFCeluck]

Usually in talking to other fans elite coaches are measured in terms of titles, final fours, and conference titles. If you asked a Duke fan why Coach K was great they'd name his four titles, eleven final fours, and God knows how many ACC season and tournament titles. His total wins is a factor, but it's down the list.

 

[jordoo]

What's Boeheim record against the Top 25 verse other coaches? I'm too lazy to look it up but my guess is it's good but it's not top 5 or even top 10 percentage wise like his overal total wines (#2 all-time).

Look it up if you want to know. I believe its actually very good as someone dug it up a few years back. Its obviously much lower than his over all percentage but so is everyone elses.

 

[TheCusian]

Budweiser sells the most beer, does that make it the best beer in the market?

Now you've lost it. Comparing JB to Budweiser is a straight up insult. Are you a UCONN fan?

 

[TheCusian]

Usually in talking to other fans elite coaches are measured in terms of titles, final fours, and conference titles. If you asked a Duke fan why Coach K was great they'd name his four titles, eleven final fours, and God knows how many ACC season and tournament titles. His total wins is a factor, but it's down the list.

I think Kansas fans would point to Self's conference titles too. That's what I'm saying - it's not that impressive to be better than Barnes at Texas with top 5 recruiting classes year after year. You can say he's undercoached his talent.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think Kansas fans would point to Self's conference titles too. That's what I'm saying - it's not that impressive to be better than Barnes at Texas with top 5 recruiting classes year after year. You can say he's undercoached his talent.

10 straight conference titles is a legit accomplishment...and since 2005 KU has only had 5 top-5 classes, at least per Sckout.

 

[SoBeCuse]

JB's accomplishments deserve praise and accolades for sure. I am leaning towards Cuse4ever's side however. I do think MSU and KU this year and generally have more talent. I also think Izzo and Self are better coaches. It's close but just my opinion of course.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I just want to make it clear that there's no other coach I'd want than JAB. He is the perfect coach for SU.