If I Had to Pick One Key for Us to Win.....

[CorduroyG]

Hasn't been mentioned on here exactly but I think it will be interesting to see how Gonzaga tries to beat the zone.

I think they will try to put Sabonis at the foul line so he can shoot the 15 footer or deliver the inside pass if he's pressured. If he gets the ball fairly easily at the foul line and makes a couple of Js and short assists, he will be hard to stop. Like his father, he can be an exceptional passer from the high post.

I assume JB will anticipate this and make them shoot more from the outside by packing in the middle of the zone by backing the guards down. If this happens, then their guards and Wiltjer will need to make 3s. I suspect if they only shoot about 25% and we get most of the defensive boards then we have a good chance.

Their other choice is to put Wiltjer at the foul line and keep Sabonis in the low post. Wiltjer is also a good passer (not as good as Sabonis) but he will make a lot of the 15 footers if he is left wide open. Key will be to deny him the ball even more so than Sabonis.

Personally, I think Sabonis is the key...stop him reasonably (like say 16/12) and think we will win. If he dominates, we're in trouble.

Agree i think few will put sabonis at the high post. If he puts wiltjer there he'll be doing us a favor. Sabonis can do alot of damage there.

 

[billsin01]

He took more shots than anyone except G. I don't know how that's a supplemental role.

Are you seriously debating that Cooney is not better in a supplemental role as opposed to the role of creator and primary scorer? I don't think that's debatable and, what's more, I don't even view it as a criticism. Critique, I guess, but not really a criticism. I loved CJ Fair as much or more than anyone on this board but he was better as the 2/3 option vs. the 1. That's fine to say, IMO.

He took more shots (although it's worth pointing out that he was clearly supplemental to G who not only took more shots and scored more points but also had the ball in his hands far more often) but it's the nature of the shots he took. He struggled on three drives to the basket, but if he wants to pick spots to aggressive that's fine. Otherwise it 7 threes and most if not all were open looks. One has to assume some of that is because of his movement without the ball and some of it has to do with the attention paid to G, who was dominant, and Richardson, who was excellent vs. Dayton.

Anyway, I know Cooney gets a ton of criticism here, but saying he's a more effective player when he's playing a secondary role seems like Basketball 101 in a lot of ways, IMO.

 

[billsin01]

A lot of this is fair (I'll leave the missed lay-up thing alone). Cooney was solid, it was nice to see, we'll have a better shot at winning on Friday if Cooney's solid again.

It's hard to argue that his shouldn't be a supplemental role, based on his four-year body of work. Cooney's had maybe half a dozen games in which he's legitimately carried the team? Don't know how many of those we've won. But his skill-set doesn't lend itself to playing that role. On the other hand, if he's playing efficiently and getting even a little rest, he can be valuable as a third offensive option (as we saw on Sunday).

Yeah, I can't quite figure out how we're still trying to get to the bottom of this in year 5. Cooney is absolutely fine. Maybe not as consistent a shooter as we'd like but probably a better defender and all-around player than many expected. Having said that he's better in a supplemental role. And it's OK to say that -- I mean, we all would probably agree that GMac was the better player and I don't think GMac was all that ideally suited to that role his junior and senior year either. He did very well but we're probably a better team if he's playing off a guy who the offense is running through like he was with Melo (of course saying we're a better team with Melo is probably not the best basketball analysis we've ever seen on this board).

 

[Dave85]

Hasn't been mentioned on here exactly but I think it will be interesting to see how Gonzaga tries to beat the zone.

I think they will try to put Sabonis at the foul line so he can shoot the 15 footer or deliver the inside pass if he's pressured. If he gets the ball fairly easily at the foul line and makes a couple of Js and short assists, he will be hard to stop. Like his father, he can be an exceptional passer from the high post.

I assume JB will anticipate this and make them shoot more from the outside by packing in the middle of the zone by backing the guards down. If this happens, then their guards and Wiltjer will need to make 3s. I suspect if they only shoot about 25% and we get most of the defensive boards then we have a good chance.

Their other choice is to put Wiltjer at the foul line and keep Sabonis in the low post. Wiltjer is also a good passer (not as good as Sabonis) but he will make a lot of the 15 footers if he is left wide open. Key will be to deny him the ball even more so than Sabonis.

Personally, I think Sabonis is the key...stop him reasonably (like say 16/12) and think we will win. If he dominates, we're in trouble.

Hopefully they will not watch what Pitt and Louisville do.

 

[Dave85]

Anyway, I know Cooney gets a ton of criticism here, but saying he's a more effective player when he's playing a secondary role seems like Basketball 101 in a lot of ways, IMO.

I kind of agree with this statement. However, when Cooney is shooting well he plays a lot better on defense. And then overall I think the team plays better. Of course I bet one of the idiot savant deep data mining guys on this board will point out a game where Cooney shot well, he did not get any steals, and we lost. In my defense I'm kind of just making this stuff up as I go along. You can even quote me and I will not even charge you for it!

 

[ZagVisito]

It's been mentioned above, the key on Sabonis at the foul line and whether there's room in the middle. That sounds right to me, too, as the critical factor. Part and parcel of that is how he (and Wiltjer/Drainginis) can rebound against the zone, they don't see it much, most zones suffer rebounding-wise, you guys specialize and that seems unlikely.

Other than that? At least on your end of the court? Yeah, whether the 3s get converted. Wiltjer can be unstoppable and has ripped off 3 quick 3s for 9 blindingly fast points many many times this year. He also went 2 for 17 against SMC at home. Perkins actually led the WCC in 3pt % over Wiltjer much of the year. Both have been hot during the tourney, even Sabonis is 2/2 from 3.

Obviously we can also go very cold, when we do we go low, but may not work well against you guys.

 

[LetMeIn]

It's been mentioned above, the key on Sabonis at the foul line and whether there's room in the middle. That sounds right to me, too, as the critical factor. Part and parcel of that is how he (and Wiltjer/Drainginis) can rebound against the zone, they don't see it much, most zones suffer rebounding-wise, you guys specialize and that seems unlikely.

Our rebounding out of the zone isn't much better than most zone teams.

I'm curious about Gonzagas defense. They seem to have a sneaky good defense this year (23 ken pom) and have held both SH and Utah under 60. How? What is their defensive philosophy? How do you they defend the Pick and Roll? Who will Wiltjer guard?

 

[GardenOrange]

I think a huge factor for SU is turnovers. If we keep them low, we almost always win. It is the most key factor that we can control as well. If the TOs are low, there are less runouts for the opponent and more possesions where they have to go against our 2-3 all set up. Also, less TOs equals less empty trips for us on offense. If we turn it over less than 10, I like our chances.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

There are so many! I will go with Cooney successfully making 3s and driving to the basket. If Cooney is playing well it's a much better team on both ends.

Please no cooney driving to the basket .. It's an outlet pass in the oppositions fast break

 

[Dave85]

Please no cooney driving to the basket .. It's an outlet pass in the oppositions fast break

I don't disagree. But the question was what was key to winning. Part of my answer was Cooney SUCCESSFULLY driving to the basket. I could have went with Roberson showing up making rebounds. If Roberson has 10+ rebound day or Cooney is making layups we will do very well.

 

[AdoptedZag]

Our rebounding out of the zone isn't much better than most zone teams.

I'm curious about Gonzagas defense. They seem to have a sneaky good defense this year (23 ken pom) and have held both SH and Utah under 60. How? What is their defensive philosophy? How do you they defend the Pick and Roll? Who will Wiltjer guard?

It's mostly just agressive hedging the ball screens. Teams will attempt to use the high ball screen to get a guard iso on Wiltjer but for all his defensive misgivings, he's a pretty good hedger with his long reach and (mostly) adequate footwork. Teams that have success in going iso vs. him have done so with multiple high ball screens to counteract the hedge action.

 

[suinaustin]

Our rebounding out of the zone isn't much better than most zone teams.

I'm curious about Gonzagas defense. They seem to have a sneaky good defense this year (23 ken pom) and have held both SH and Utah under 60. How? What is their defensive philosophy? How do you they defend the Pick and Roll? Who will Wiltjer guard?

They give up about the same pts per game as Cuse does. 64-65. They may score at a higher rate but, if the D can keep them at that 65 or under, Cuse can pull this off.

 

[orangefan13]

Our three are all going to have have to bring it. Maybe Cooney or Gbinije could surprise and take a charge or two

 

[TheCusian]

I won't complain either. And it is "possible". But this wouldn't be my first choice as a pre-game strategy.

I don't think there's a single poster who does

 

[ZagVisito]

Our rebounding out of the zone isn't much better than most zone teams.

I'm curious about Gonzagas defense. They seem to have a sneaky good defense this year (23 ken pom) and have held both SH and Utah under 60. How? What is their defensive philosophy? How do you they defend the Pick and Roll? Who will Wiltjer guard?

This has been Few's best defensive team ever, never had a higher rated one, at times this year we've been ranked number one in the country in 3 pt defense. This is all crazy bc we've never been a defensive minded team, but it has seemed to be more and more of an emphasis for the last few years as we've climbed the defensive stats nationally.

With the caveat that I am not a bb guy, never coached, played only freshman ball in HS, so you're getting only the view of a rabid fan, with that caveat, I can start by saying we're much longer than we've ever been. This might be an area where our short bench has helped b/c Maclellen is a defensive monster, very long, very fast and very committed, our conference defensive player of the year. He spent much of the year struggling offensively, so he focused big time on being a blanket. Similarly, Drainginis is also a long, committed, 5th year senior that just always seems to be in the right position, has a natural feel for where the ball is going. Perkins isn't as fast or as long, but he would be the one that would be described as sneaky and also seems to rarely be out of position. Everyone has heard our weakness is our guards, well that is definitely no longer true, guards scored 19 of 21 of our last points against SMC in WCC final - says something when 2 bigs are Sabonis/Wiltjer. But, during the period this year when they did struggle, they all seemed to try to pick up their defensive pressure at a greater level than maybe normal.

In terms of the bigs, it is well documented that Wiltjer is a liability, his idea of defense is scoring 15 more points than you (which he does) with the one exception being that he is long and can come from the backside to block shots and once he blocks one, it seems to get in people's heads. Sabonis, well, no one pushes him anywhere and I truly think guys get a little scared of him. Not that he fouls hard or anything, he's just so intense and with such a motor, such a reputation as an elite, guys - including Poetle (sp?) the Utah lottery pick just seem to disappear. They can't get position early, they aren't going anywhere Sabonis doesn't let them and I think is in their heads early.

Of course, we don't play in the ACC and that helps those stats, lots of blowouts this year, so teams stop playing. But, this team is by far the mentally toughest we've ever had, even before we really started playing top 15 level ball 3 weeks ago. In each loss, we've held leads, often big in the second half, so the games were already controlled well, our problem was as much psychological as physical. During that period when they struggled, their focus became insane defense since that was easier to gain confidence. To summarize, all I can point to is being longer, faster, disciplined, committed, experienced and just better than teams past.

In terms of the pick/roll, we struggled with what SMC does with the pick high at the FT line. Wiltjer got exposed big. Caveat that SMC ran that thing to perfection, the most skilled team we faced, maybe right up there with what you have faced. Timing was perfect, passes crisp, eyes back of heads. Except, during the WCC final, we turned them over at a ridiculous rate and that has spilled over to the tournament. I can point to nothing except they have so much experience, 3 5th year seniors/Sabonis' professional ball in Spain, they just rarely are caught out of position or sleeping, often anticipating sneaky good and interrupting plays before they ever get started.

All that's long and not particularly insightful (they're good, dah) but I am a guest here and trying to be a good one and contribute what little I can.