If you listen to JB he thinks we can win games….eventually

[pearl31]

Nonsense. That 2017 team was able to turn things around because they had players on the bench who were better than the starters, and because the starting lineup had several players who weren't playing their natural positions [White, Lydon]. Once those adjustments were made, the team got substantially better.

What adjustments can be made here?

And no -- it isn't a knee jerk reaction. In a private group chat here with several posters who have posted in this thread, I expressed my concern that this would be the worst team of JB's tenure. It wasn't based on a game, or disgust from a game outcome -- it's based upon being pragmatic about the limitations of several of the players, and what I was observing in the exhibition games. And we don't have options on the bench to turn to -- the three guys we play aren't providing much scoring.

Do I think we can beat teams by outshooting them? Sure, that will happen. But overall, we're too poor defensively and rebounding to sustain a high level of being competitive. And the lead guard issues are a massive issue that we'll have to overcome.

Doesn't mean that there aren't some bright spots [Jesse's potential, for one]. But post-2015, we've been able to fall back on solid defensive play most years, and I don't see this team being able to do that.

It’s just really something how you proclaim these things (in November, natch) as some clairvoyant basketball savant. While castigating people having the audacity to wait and see as “ridiculous” and posting “nonsense.” And, wow, kudos on the echo-chamber chat you led - must’ve been quite the support group.

So put it out there right now, RF- you’re saying this is a losing season for JB, right?

 

[djcon57]

Offensively, we are a different team when Cole is playing and scoring well. He just opens up so many things for everyone it makes him the difference maker. In order for this team to succeed, he needs to be steady. Not great, just steady. Joe also needs to stop picking up his dribble in the back court while under pressure. He is the same style of point that Gerry was, and has many of the same strengths and weaknesses. He has improved a ton since last year but obviously his work is not yet done. Will he continue to improve? I think he will, and I think there will be adjustments made to help him bring the ball up court. It would be nice for him to play more off ball, but honestly there are issues with both our PG's that need work. At least we have a chance to score with Joe.

”He has improved a ton since last year but obviously his work is not yet done.”

has he though?

 

[FireballPhil]

”He has improved a ton since last year but obviously his work is not yet done.”

has he though?

He has. And if you truly don't think so I feel sorry for you. His court vision and passing has gone up dramatically over last year. His body is completely different-many have said covid played a huge part in last year and maybe they are correct. But that doesn't have anything to do with the great amount of work he put in to the off season to transform himself and his body back into shape. He is playing much more under control, his shooting percentage is way up. His dribbling under pressure is super weak and is his major weakness. I think Gerry has been working a lot with him and will continue. I think they will be watching a ton of film and they are both smart enough to figure few things out. Or at least I hope they do because we are going to face a lot of teams capable of pressuring him all game long.

 

[RF2044]

-- It’s just really something how you proclaim these things (in November, natch) as some clairvoyant basketball savant. While castigating people having the audacity to wait and see as “ridiculous” and posting “nonsense.” And, wow, kudos on the echo-chamber chat you led - must’ve been quite the support group.

So put it out there right now, RF- you’re saying this is a losing season for JB, right?

Wow, Pearl. Thought we were on good terms, but that was one hell of a sanctimonious post. So here's a suggestion: you don't like my posts, don't read them. You don't like my observations, that's fine too -- some people have trouble hearing that their baby's ugly.

I have zero problem owning my observations, several of which I've already outlined earlier. This is the least athletic club JB has ever put on the floor. We're poor defensively. We're a poor rebounding team. We have essentially zero bench scoring to rely upon. And our starting point guard can't handle pressure defense, and puts us in the hole shot clock wise by squandering a lot of it before we even begin executing our half court sets.

We have the toughest preseason schedule in a long time, and we're fielding what is arguably the worst team we've had in a long time. Bad combination. I invite you to stop with the emotional hysteria, and then take a look at our schedule -- given how things have unfolded so far against teams like VCU, who pressed the crap out of us and big-boy'd us athletically [to say nothing of Auburn], what do you expect to happen when we play Villanova?

I am concerned that this is going to be a disastrous preseason, and that we won't be able to overcome that when we get to conference. Hope like hell we're going to beat Indiana, and Georgetown on the road, but I'm not confident about either game.

I don't know if it will be a losing season, but math. We're at .500 right now, with several tough games coming up. I expect we're going to hover around .500 the entire season, which is not where anyone expected this team would be after the Lafayette game.

I do know that this team seems a lot closer to pulling off that low than any other team JB has ever fielded, even 2017. And I say that in full recognition that our HOF head coach is one of the best game coaches in the business, and that he's shown the ability to make lemonade out of lemons in recent years, when the program has been down. Given the personnel, I don't think that he'll be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this time.


Edit -- by the way, that "echo chamber" disagreed to a man with the concerns I expressed. I'm guessing that after watching the team lose 3 out of 4, people are seeing a lot of those issues I was concerned about for themselves now. Couldn't care less whether people want to take a wait and see approach, and never "predicted" we'd have a losing season. I'm just concerned that we're in danger of doing so.

 

[CousCuse]

Wow, Pearl. Thought we were on good terms, but that was one hell of a sanctimonious post. So here's a suggestion: you don't like my posts, don't read them. You don't like my observations, that's fine too -- some people have trouble hearing that their baby's ugly.

I have zero problem owning my observations, several of which I've already outlined earlier. This is the least athletic club JB has ever put on the floor. We're poor defensively. We're a poor rebounding team. We have essentially zero bench scoring to rely upon. And our starting point guard can't handle pressure defense, and puts us in the hole shot clock wise by squandering a lot of it before we even begin executing our half court sets.

We have the toughest preseason schedule in a long time, and we're fielding what is arguably the worst team we've had in a long time. Bad combination. I invite you to stop with the emotional hysteria, and then take a look at our schedule -- given how things have unfolded so far against teams like VCU, who pressed the crap out of us and big-boy'd us athletically [to say nothing of Auburn], what do you expect to happen when we play Villanova?

I am concerned that this is going to be a disastrous preseason, and that we won't be able to overcome that when we get to conference. Hope like hell we're going to beat Indiana, and Georgetown on the road, but I'm not confident about either game.

I don't know if it will be a losing season, but math. We're at .500 right now, with several tough games coming up. I expect we're going to hover around .500 the entire season, which is not where anyone expected this team would be after the Lafayette game.

I do know that this team seems a lot closer to pulling off that low than any other team JB has ever fielded, even 2017. And I say that in full recognition that our HOF head coach is one of the best game coaches in the business, and that he's shown the ability to make lemonade out of lemons in recent years, when the program has been down. Given the personnel, I don't think that he'll be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this time.

Nova isn't as good as VCU, and Auburn is a NC contender.

 

[pearl31]

Nova isn't as good as VCU

come on man

 

[CousCuse]

come on man

They brought in a lot of guys from the portal, those early losses are not indicative of that team. I saw their 3 games at Atlantis and thought they were a very good team, very good. Beat SU, gave Baylor the best game down there of the 3 and went OT with UCONN. Villanova doesn't look up to their standard this year. If SU shot good, they probably beat VCU anyways.

 

[Briancuse]

Nova isn't as good as VCU, and Auburn is a NC contender.

I'm with you on Auburn. Your Nova comment im about to break out the Billy Madison speech.

 

[pearl31]

Wow, Pearl. Thought we were on good terms, but that was one hell of a sanctimonious post. So here's a suggestion: you don't like my posts, don't read them. You don't like my observations, that's fine too -- some people have trouble hearing that their baby's ugly.

I have zero problem owning my observations, several of which I've already outlined earlier. This is the least athletic club JB has ever put on the floor. We're poor defensively. We're a poor rebounding team. We have essentially zero bench scoring to rely upon. And our starting point guard can't handle pressure defense, and puts us in the hole shot clock wise by squandering a lot of it before we even begin executing our half court sets.

We have the toughest preseason schedule in a long time, and we're fielding what is arguably the worst team we've had in a long time. Bad combination. I invite you to stop with the emotional hysteria, and then take a look at our schedule -- given how things have unfolded so far against teams like VCU, who pressed the crap out of us and big-boy'd us athletically [to say nothing of Auburn], what do you expect to happen when we play Villanova?

I am concerned that this is going to be a disastrous preseason, and that we won't be able to overcome that when we get to conference. Hope like hell we're going to beat Indiana, and Georgetown on the road, but I'm not confident about either game.

I don't know if it will be a losing season, but math. We're at .500 right now, with several tough games coming up. I expect we're going to hover around .500 the entire season, which is not where anyone expected this team would be after the Lafayette game.

I do know that this team seems a lot closer to pulling off that low than any other team JB has ever fielded, even 2017. And I say that in full recognition that our HOF head coach is one of the best game coaches in the business, and that he's shown the ability to make lemonade out of lemons in recent years, when the program has been down. Given the personnel, I don't think that he'll be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this time.


Edit -- by the way, that "echo chamber" disagreed to a man with the concerns I expressed. I'm guessing that after watching the team lose 3 out of 4, people are seeing a lot of those issues I was concerned about for themselves now. Couldn't care less whether people want to take a wait and see approach, and never "predicted" we'd have a losing season. I'm just concerned that we're in danger of doing so.

Look I hear you. Of course we should be concerned - the 2nd halves of Colgate/VCU alone should have any realistic observer concerned. And yeah this pre-conf schedule is murder.
But please don’t come with the sanctimonious thing. The OP of this thread was greeted w nothing but sanctimony - and that’s really the only reason I jumped in here at all. And judgement based on emotions? I could easily show you a mirror… It’s all a matter of perspective…

 

[djcon57]

He has. And if you truly don't think so I feel sorry for you. His court vision and passing has gone up dramatically over last year. His body is completely different-many have said covid played a huge part in last year and maybe they are correct. But that doesn't have anything to do with the great amount of work he put in to the off season to transform himself and his body back into shape. He is playing much more under control, his shooting percentage is way up. His dribbling under pressure is super weak and is his major weakness. I think Gerry has been working a lot with him and will continue. I think they will be watching a ton of film and they are both smart enough to figure few things out. Or at least I hope they do because we are going to face a lot of teams capable of pressuring him all game long.

You feel sorry for me for watching the poor defense and complete inability to get the ball up the floor and not suggest boosting shooting numbers vs Colgate and Lafayette is not improvement?

weird post.

he‘s always destroyed the BC types then he has the occasional great game vs a good team like the tourney games last year. I was hoping for that to be different this year. would be nice to have a 3rd year starter at point guard be consistent...I know it’s a lot to ask

 

[tipphill]

very few teams do this at any level of play

this season is different--- we are VERY slow. we cannot play the zone

 

[rrlbees]

complete inability to get the ball up the floor

Complete exaggeration

 

[CuseFaninVT]

”He has improved a ton since last year but obviously his work is not yet done.”

has he though?

I’m with you. He’s improved incrementally, not a ton

 

[RF2044]

Look I hear you. Of course we should be concerned - the 2nd halves of Colgate/VCU alone should have any realistic observer concerned. And yeah this pre-conf schedule is murder.
But please don’t come with the sanctimonious thing. The OP of this thread was greeted w nothing but sanctimony - and that’s really the only reason I jumped in here at all. And judgement based on emotions? I could easily show you a mirror… It’s all a matter of perspective…

All good -- we're rooting for the same team.

But I think there's some background context you don't seem to be aware of. The OP made a post after the ASU game, declaring people "morons" for expressing concern after Colgate / VCU. And then when we got crushed by Auburn, he doubled down on calling people "dumb" in this thread, because of JB's post-game comments.

Can't speak for others, but that's what I was responding to.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

So do I. That’s not the point. I’m calling out people who’ve made stupid assertions after 5-10 games every year and it’s clearly triggered some.

Unlike some I still enjoy seasons where we aren’t national championship caliber, but we still have big wins. Life is too short to complain all the time and that’s all that is cool around here these days.

You have a lot of posts about what is “cool” or “not cool,” ”calling out people,” or what is “triggering people“ and about you trying to “develop” a certain kind of board-wide perspective. Your perspective. Yet you also acknowledge that it’s toward your own “spin.” Why can’t you deal with the fact that there are always going to be varying experiences, attitudes, skews on ‘objectivity,’ and expectations? And it’s no one’s position to decide how anyone else should feel?

Be you—shake your pom-poms as much as you like. And make supportable arguments to advance your own ideas. But stop worrying about evangelizing and converting everyone. This is a community of sorts but it’s not mature, reasonable, or realistic to think it’s ever going to be some sort of homogenous pep squad when we are not all able to find satisfaction with what we are currently seeing on the court. History is nice but it ain’t payin’ the bills right now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You have a lot of posts about what is “cool” or “not cool,” ”calling out people,” or what is “triggering people“ and about you trying to “develop” a certain kind of board-wide perspective. Your perspective. Yet you also acknowledge that it’s toward your own “spin.” Why can’t you deal with the fact that there are always going to be varying experiences, attitudes, skews on ‘objectivity,’ and expectations? And it’s no one’s position to decide how anyone else should feel?

Be you—shake your pom-poms as much as you like. And make supportable arguments to advance your own ideas. But stop worrying about evangelizing and converting everyone. This is a community of sorts but it’s not mature, reasonable, or realistic to think it’s ever going to be some sort of homogenous pep squad when we are not all able to find satisfaction with what we are currently seeing on the court. History is nice but it ain’t payin’ the bills right now.

I wasn’t waving any pom poms. I wasn’t trying to convert anyone. I acknowledged our limitations. I made an assessment based on history. I said if I was wrong you could call me out. I said we are likely to be mediocre and be competitive that is it.

Fans are angry because I said I’ve seen this story before. And I get called a Pollyanna because I made an assessment based on history. It was a reasoned thought.

So I know what I said. I don’t need people to change my words because it’s not the enough of an emotional negative reaction that a large amount of people are having right now.

And the generalizations are sure upsetting specific people.

 

[Day2]

You lump all criticism together and defend the wall no matter what.
That is your right.
It doesn’t mean you are right.

The people who bring legitimate points up and the people who complain without anything of substance are different.

The OP of this thread acknowledges the people who complain with points are not the problem.

If you say so.

I agree with the statement in bold, though.

 

[Sherman20]

Tuesday's game and the Georgetown games are must wins at this point.

Indiana is going to be a really tough game to win.

 

[MikeSU02]

Complete exaggeration

You should tell JB that, then, bc even JB has been sitting him when the he gets picked up full court and keeps having issues getting the ball up the court.

The kid isn’t a PG.

Every one of the last four teams we’ve played have hunted Joe bringing the ball up the court because of his lack of ability in that respect.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Either he’s blowing smoke or he’s dumber than our fans. I know the posts here will most certainly say he’s dumber.

Again, not saying we will be great(even though people claim I said that in a different thread), but based on JB’s press conference he thinks we can win games and be competitive.

Curious to see how that happens. I do think the third game when we play our starters 40 hurt us yesterday especially with Buddy and Joe having absolutely zero legs.

Edwards and Buddy need to be the foundation. We need more out of Benny and the defense at least needs to get to somewhat average.

I still say we end up with at least 18 or 19 wins. This Is the same spot we were in the past 4 of the past seasons and we finished with 19, 18, 18 and 20 wins.

I agree with him and you.

I think D will improve enough to be passable by the end of the season - just like last year.

If we get in, I can see it playing out similar to last year...10 or 11 seed that is playing like a 4 or 5 with a sweet sixteen ceiling...

It may be harder to get into the tourney than it will be to win a couple of games once we are there...

 

[Eric15]

Tuesday's game and the Georgetown games are must wins at this point.

I would be legitimately surprised if JB doesn't figure out a way to scrounge together a bubble-type season. I envision this season as an 17-14 (9-11) type record (similar to 2019-20) where we have a make a major run in the ACCT to make the tourney.

But my goodness, if we have games in November that are genuinely "must-wins" that speaks volumes about where we are as a program right now.

 

[Briancuse]

I would be legitimately surprised if JB doesn't figure out a way to scrounge together a bubble-type season. I envision this season as an 17-14 (9-11) type record (similar to 2019-20) where we have a make a major run in the ACCT to make the tourney.

But my goodness, if we have games in November that are genuinely "must-wins" that speaks volumes about where we are as a program right now.

That is where we are at right now it's very possible the Colgate loss keeps us out or not being able the beat Vcu also keeps us out.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We are starting out first halfs HOT, hitting them with all our firepower. Colgate, VCU, Auburn we did that to them, and up on them or tied.

Defense is being scorched for 50%; 75% of the time. The passes that are going into the corner are straight-line bullet assists, making opposing forwards and SG's look like PG's.

We have way more work to do than last year's team early on.

Is English your first language?

 

[TinyManInside]

We're going to win more games than we lose this year. Boeheim always figures out a way. We might end up only +1 in win differential but I don't think this year is the year that we post a losing record. I'm worried about next year though.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I mean... I would rather not have our team be like the 2016-2017 team that missed the tournament. Sure, I understand the similarities between them (incredibly porous on defense, very capable of getting hot on offense with a guy who often bailed out the team with tough shots, i.e. White/Boeheim.)