If you listen to JB he thinks we can win games….eventually

[Alsacs]

Let's be accurate. Some of the same people would be complaining. Not all. There are always quacks. And let's also be reasonable. Fans are disappointed when their team has a disappointing loss. In 2009 I was disappointed when we lost to Oklahoma. I wasn't calling for JB to be fired and I don't know that I heard anyine else doing it.

So tell me, where in your mind is the bar for you to consider us as meeting the minimum standard of Syracuse basketball success?

The poster you responded to thinks legitimate frustration posters and the low IQ complaining posters the OP made this thread about are the same. He defends the wall against ANY frustration. Which is that posters right but doesn’t make him automatically right.

Any poster calling for Boeheim being fired for performance in 2002 is a moron. The program since 2015 has been mediocre in the regular season and very competitive in March when we made it. Boeheim should never be fired. If Hopkins didn’t leave for Washington though Boeheim would be gone now. Hopkins was getting the job but he left.

 

[sufandu]

The poster you responded to thinks legitimate frustration posters and the low IQ complaining posters the OP made this thread about are the same. He defends the wall against ANY frustration. Which is that posters right but doesn’t make him automatically right.

Any poster calling for Boeheim being fired for performance in 2002 is a moron. The program since 2015 has been mediocre. Boeheim should never be fired. If Hopkins didn’t leave for Washington though Boeheim would be gone now. Hopkins was getting the job but he left.

And the game I think Day2 was referencing wasn't even the 2002 season. I think that was the first game of the NC season where Melo had like 31. Anyone that watched that team play had to see that team was going to be a lot of fun to watch and had a shot to be good.

 

[Alsacs]

And the game I think Day2 was referencing wasn't even the 2002 season. I think that was the first game of the NC season where Melo had like 31. Anyone that watched that team play had to see that team was going to be a lot of fun to watch and had a shot to be good.

To be fair the Memphis game was in 2002.
It was the season opener at MSG. I went to that as a freshman. It was the coaches vs. cancer doubleheader.
It was the 2002-2003 season. Melo was stud in that game.

If fans were calling for Boeheim to be fired I don’t believe it. Day can say it though.
We rolled off 14 wins in a row after the Memphis game till we lost at Pitt.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We can "win some games," sure. But, that's so vague that it's meaningless.
We can "be competitive." Again, meaningless.

We are still quite capable of having four guys go off with 3-pointers in any given game, and having Jesse go off inside. The offense is still capable, if we can defeat the inevitable pressure up the court and get started. But, the defense is going to be the consistent liability. The ballhandling and playmaking are going to be consistent liabilities. It all comes down to what the opposition has in terms of its own athletes, determination, and ball-hawking prowess. But, unfortunately for us, it doesn't take a lot of talent for a team to have the kinds of kids who can defensively make life difficult for our players.

The zone is not going to be a weapon again this year. Jesse may be a weapon, though. Benny might be, if JB reaches the point of surrendering Jimmy's minutes, which i don't anticipate happening on a regular basis.

"We're in a tough spot." We have to hope our struggles don't lead to defections from the players in the program we will count on next year, or decommits from the ones we don't even have yet. I kinda think we will need a talented, experienced transfer in next year, but good luck convincing someone that there's a spot to take or that their prospects will be enhanced.

 

[Day2]

Let's be accurate. Some of the same people would be complaining. Not all. There are always quacks. And let's also be reasonable. Fans are disappointed when their team has a disappointing loss. In 2009 I was disappointed when we lost to Oklahoma. I wasn't calling for JB to be fired and I don't know that I heard anyine else doing it.

So tell me, where in your mind is the bar for you to consider us as meeting the minimum standard of Syracuse basketball success?

Maybe I shouldn’t combine marijuana and mezcal, but what does your question even mean? And what does bringing up the Oklahoma game prove?

 

[Newhouser]

The poster you responded to thinks legitimate frustration posters and the low IQ complaining posters the OP made this thread about are the same. He defends the wall against ANY frustration. Which is that posters right but doesn’t make him automatically right.

Any poster calling for Boeheim being fired for performance in 2002 is a moron. The program since 2015 has been mediocre in the regular season and very competitive in March when we made it. Boeheim should never be fired. If Hopkins didn’t leave for Washington though Boeheim would be gone now. Hopkins was getting the job but he left.

And that's the interesting question knowing what we now know. Where would be if Hop took over as planned? I think in the same spot. Not the same team but regular season result... similar especially knowing Hops struggles.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Sad thing is I don’t think we layed A stinker against Auburn. That was our best game albeit with no bench and 3rd in 3 days.

Is there any way we get 15 more wins before Miami and the last game can be an official Boeheim send off?

 

[sufandu]

Maybe I shouldn’t combine marijuana and mezcal, but what does your question even mean? And what does bringing up the Oklahoma game prove?

If you can't figure out my point or don't understand my question, which isn't difficult, I'm not takjng the time to explain them. It's clear, and has been for a long time, you are never willing to concede someone has made a valid point that opposes yours.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And that's the interesting question knowing what we now know. Where would be if Hop took over as planned? I think in the same spot. Not the same team but regular season result... similar especially knowing Hops struggles.

I think this is an incomplete take. If you’ve been following Hop, you’d know much of the issue is inability to grow his recruiting base out west, which takes time. He would not have had similar issues at Syracuse

 

[JeremyCuse]

To be fair the Memphis game was in 2002.
It was the season opener at MSG. I went to that as a freshman. It was the coaches vs. cancer doubleheader.
It was the 2002-2003 season. Melo was stud in that game.

If fans were calling for Boeheim to be fired I don’t believe it. Day can say it though.
We rolled off 14 wins in a row after the Memphis game till we lost at Pitt.

Absolutely nobody called for JB to be fired after that game, it's another board fantasy moment

 

[Newhouser]

I think this is a particularly lazy take. If you’ve been following Hop, you’d know much of the issue is inability to grow his recruiting base out west, which takes time. He would not have had similar issues at Syracuse

Thanks I follow Hop pretty closely, and I think there are plenty of strategic questions as well. Blind faith seems like a particularly lazy take to me.

 

[rrlbees]

Absolutely nobody called for JB to be fired after that game, it's another board fantasy moment

November 15, 2002

“Fire Boeheim”

JeremyCuse

 

[JeremyCuse]

November 15,2002

“Fire Boeheim”

JeremyCuse

Ha, my posting back then was almost non-existant, college tends to do that. Wish I could go back.

 

[Chris02M]

we get more out of benny by plaving him more, symir needs more time as well . starting line ups should vary based on who we are playing.

very few teams do this at any level of play

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Thanks I follow Hop pretty closely, and I think there are plenty of strategic questions as well. Blind faith seems like a particularly lazy take to me.

Yeah, that came off harsher than intended.

I do worry Hop may not have the bad cop side to him that Boeheim does. Too much a player’s coach won’t work either.

 

[pearl31]

Right in the end?

I'm not the one doubling down on stupidity two consecutive days. But I suppose you had fun with your pollyanna-ish post from yesterday, after we beat ASU.

Newsflash for you: if Hurley hadn't been such a lousy coach, and had pressed us like he did the last 7 minutes of the game, we would have lost that one, too. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Did you see the Duke / Gonzaga game last night? Either of those teams would beat us by 30. It's a sad commentary that this is how far our program has fallen, that we lose to two non-P5 teams back-to-back, and some are chastising the fanbase for being objective about the product on the court.

My entire life our fanbase has enjoyed the consistency of death, taxes, and JB winning 20+. This year is something completely different -- and pretending otherwise is akin to burying your head in the sand.

Very unlikely we pull out of this tailspin, because we lack the personnel to do so.

You are (understandably) posting from a disgusted worst-case-as-of-this-moment mindset. And in so doing, you're hurling things out there as fact that are, well, knee-jerk disgust.
I can point to at least 3 recent early-season vantage points that appeared as bleak or bleaker than now. And, as with those teams, the personnel with whom we were disgusted in Nov/Dec was eventually regarded differently by March.
Me? As with dasher I'm kind of shocked at how bad the defense is but to say that can't/won't improve is irrational gloom. And to deny the legit offensive potential is, again, willful defeatism.
We should not have allowed 100 to Colgate or lost to them.
We should not have allowed VCU to score 40+ points in a half.
But to proclaim, in November, that the season is over is ridiculous - especially for you.
I actually see this team as somewhat similar to the 16-17 White/Gillon team, and that outcome (piling up a bunch of losses, playing bad defense, but also beating some good teams, ultimately not being tourney-worthy) being this team's +/- likely outcome.

 

[Day2]

If you can't figure out my point or don't understand my question, which isn't difficult, I'm not takjng the time to explain them. It's clear, and has been for a long time, you are never willing to concede someone has made a valid point that opposes yours.

LOL, whatever you say, sport.

 

[Day2]

You are (understandably) posting from a disgusted worst-case-as-of-this-moment mindset. And in so doing, you're hurling things out there as fact that are, well, knee-jerk disgust.
I can point to at least 3 recent early-season vantage points that appeared as bleak or bleaker than now. And, as with those teams, the personnel with whom we were disgusted in Nov/Dec was eventually regarded differently by March.
Me? As with dasher I'm kind of shocked at how bad the defense is but to say that can't/won't improve is irrational gloom. And to deny the legit offensive potential is, again, willful defeatism.
We should not have allowed 100 to Colgate or lost to them.
We should not have allowed VCU to score 40+ points in a half.
But to proclaim, in November, that the season is over is ridiculous - especially for you.
I actually see this team as somewhat similar to the 16-17 White/Gillon team, and that outcome (piling up a bunch of losses, playing bad defense, but also beating some good teams, ultimately not being tourney-worthy) being this team's +/- likely outcome.

You know what’s funny about that 16-17 season? Aside from the usual doom and gloom, I remember a lot of people on this board (in this thread even) talking about how embarrassing it was to lose to South Carolina. South Carolina wound up going to the Final Four.

 

[Day2]

Absolutely nobody called for JB to be fired after that game, it's another board fantasy moment

You want names and addresses?

 

[Alsacs]

You know what’s funny about that 16-17 season? Aside from the usual doom and gloom, I remember a lot of people on this board (in this thread even) talking about how embarrassing it was to lose to South Carolina. South Carolina wound up going to the Final Four.

That team 16-17 also lost to sub .500 Georgetown, UConn and St. John’s besides to South Carolina.

But point to just the South Carolina game to fit your narrative.

If Syracuse is no longer an elite program then the losses won’t be dissected.

 

[Day2]

I think this is a particularly lazy take. If you’ve been following Hop, you’d know much of the issue is inability to grow his recruiting base out west, which takes time. He would not have had similar issues at Syracuse

I think he would have more talent if he was here. I also think the result would be similar because the ACC has been a tougher conference and he’s not a great coach.

 

[RF2044]

You are (understandably) posting from a disgusted worst-case-as-of-this-moment mindset. And in so doing, you're hurling things out there as fact that are, well, knee-jerk disgust.
I can point to at least 3 recent early-season vantage points that appeared as bleak or bleaker than now. And, as with those teams, the personnel with whom we were disgusted in Nov/Dec was eventually regarded differently by March.
Me? As with dasher I'm kind of shocked at how bad the defense is but to say that can't/won't improve is irrational gloom. And to deny the legit offensive potential is, again, willful defeatism.
We should not have allowed 100 to Colgate or lost to them.
We should not have allowed VCU to score 40+ points in a half.
But to proclaim, in November, that the season is over is ridiculous - especially for you.
I actually see this team as somewhat similar to the 16-17 White/Gillon team, and that outcome (piling up a bunch of losses, playing bad defense, but also beating some good teams, ultimately not being tourney-worthy) being this team's +/- likely outcome.

Nonsense. That 2017 team was able to turn things around because they had players on the bench who were better than the starters, and because the starting lineup had several players who weren't playing their natural positions [White, Lydon]. Once those adjustments were made, the team got substantially better.

What adjustments can be made here?

And no -- it isn't a knee jerk reaction. In a private group chat here with several posters who have posted in this thread, I expressed my concern that this would be the worst team of JB's tenure. It wasn't based on a game, or disgust from a game outcome -- it's based upon being pragmatic about the limitations of several of the players, and what I was observing in the exhibition games. And we don't have options on the bench to turn to -- the three guys we play aren't providing much scoring.

Do I think we can beat teams by outshooting them? Sure, that will happen. But overall, we're too poor defensively and rebounding to sustain a high level of being competitive. And the lead guard issues are a massive issue that we'll have to overcome.

Doesn't mean that there aren't some bright spots [Jesse's potential, for one]. But post-2015, we've been able to fall back on solid defensive play most years, and I don't see this team being able to do that.

 

[Day2]

That team 16-17 also lost to sub .500 Georgetown, UConn and St. John’s besides to South Carolina.

But point to just the South Carolina game to fit your narrative.

If Syracuse is no longer an elite program then the losses won’t be dissected.

I thought you took your ball and went home. Welcome back.

And what narrative would that be? I’m not making excuses about that one particular loss. I’m pointing out that - in addition to the OP’s point - we have posters jumping to conclusions about other teams that also prove to be wrong.

 

[Alsacs]

I thought you took your ball and went home. Welcome back.

And what narrative would that be? I’m not making excuses about that one particular loss. I’m pointing out that - in addition to the OP’s point - we have posters jumping to conclusions about other teams that also prove to be wrong.

You lump all criticism together and defend the wall no matter what.
That is your right.
It doesn’t mean you are right.

The people who bring legitimate points up and the people who complain without anything of substance are different.

The OP of this thread acknowledges the people who complain with points are not the problem.

 

[FireballPhil]

Nonsense. That 2017 team was able to turn things around because they had players on the bench who were better than the starters, and because the starting lineup had several players who weren't playing their natural positions [White, Lydon]. Once those adjustments were made, the team got substantially better.

What adjustments can be made here?

And no -- it isn't a knee jerk reaction. In a private group chat here with several posters who have posted in this thread, I expressed my concern that this would be the worst team of JB's tenure. It wasn't based on a game, or disgust from a game outcome -- it's based upon being pragmatic about the limitations of several of the players, and what I was observing in the exhibition games. And we don't have options on the bench to turn to -- the three guys we play aren't providing much scoring.

Do I think we can beat teams by outshooting them? Sure, that will happen. But overall, we're too poor defensively and rebounding to sustain a high level of being competitive. And the lead guard issues are a massive issue that we'll have to overcome.

Doesn't mean that there aren't some bright spots [Jesse's potential, for one]. But post-2015, we've been able to fall back on solid defensive play most years, and I don't see this team being able to do that.

I think you are mostly correct, this could indeed be a rough season to take in.

Defensively we need Benny to get better in a hurry. We cannot extend the zone out to cover the good three point shooters because we don't have a guy quick enough to rotate back down to the weak side corner-Benny solves this problem. He reminds me of Hak in this regard, but can he provide the offense Hak did in order to get him the playing time he needs? Right now it sure isn't being seen, but he is a 4/5 star for a reason-one must think he can and will improve dramatically. Hopefully he can pick up some things watching some film over the next few days and make the adjustments we believe he is capable of.

Offensively, we are a different team when Cole is playing and scoring well. He just opens up so many things for everyone it makes him the difference maker. In order for this team to succeed, he needs to be steady. Not great, just steady. Joe also needs to stop picking up his dribble in the back court while under pressure. He is the same style of point that Gerry was, and has many of the same strengths and weaknesses. He has improved a ton since last year but obviously his work is not yet done. Will he continue to improve? I think he will, and I think there will be adjustments made to help him bring the ball up court. It would be nice for him to play more off ball, but honestly there are issues with both our PG's that need work. At least we have a chance to score with Joe.

The team is still a work in progress. It has been said all preseason that this is a very tough non conference schedule, and we were all proud of how hard it was and how good it will look come March playing the teams we have. Now that we have lost to these teams the sky has fallen. Not many cupcakes to fatten the schedule, we all knew this was the hardest season in forever to get to 20 wins.

If they figure out how to extend the zone while covering the corner, and how to bring the ball up in traffic we have a decent shot at winning more games than we lose, just because of our shooting ability. If we don't we won't even sniff an NIT bid.