If you're Coyle -- what do you do?

[billsin01]

So the way I see it, Coyle has a bunch of ways to approach the head coaching spot. i'll add a little context to the options here:

Option A
Anyone who has followed this program since the Mac days knows that this administration -- regardless of who's been in charge -- is loathe to spend money. The problem is that we've also struggled to find any sort of national relevance or -- at the very least -- any sort of sustained relevance (I'd argue we haven't really been relevant at all) since the mid-90s. The fact may be -- and I'd argue very likely is true -- that if you're going to turn this university's football program into one people actually care about, you have to be willing to pay enough to get a coach capable of overcoming the obstacles that aren't going away any time soon. Will the university do this? Probably not.

Option B
Admittedly a half-measure if you don't view him as the future but continuity is rarely a bad thing, the recruiting seems to be relatively decent and the product on the field, while not exciting, is at least not miserable. you'd also certainly have a clearer picture on the direction at the end of 2016.

Option C
This one is intriguing to me. is there any way to go to the administration and say we'll save money by not hiring a new coach but we need to upgrade in a big way at position X and position Y. A veteran offensive line coach? A proven offensive coordinator? Maybe just a coach or two with better reps recruiting? I'm sure Shafer would be frustrated by having his hand forced but it could make a difference and be a cost-effective way of doing so.

Option D
Move on from Shafer and start over with what is likely an unproven commodity. Downside, you start over. Upside, perhaps you grab the next Chip Kelly (or fill in whatever name you like). You also could potentially hire someone who would at least offer more in the way of excitement and yield a few extra season tix.

I don't really see many other options but I'm fine with other suggestions if I'm missing anything.

 

[storange]

None of the above, I focus on ticket sales and game day experience and let the season play out and see where we are then.

 

[billsin01]

None of the above, I focus on ticket sales and game day experience and let the season play out and see where we are then.

fair enough -- game day experience improvements are a desperate need. But I should have been more clear -- I'm talking about the end of 2015. I would think a new AD would have to make some sort of decision about the future of the program at the season's conclusion.

 

[Chip]

None of the above, I focus on ticket sales and game day experience and let the season play out and see where we are then.

I think at this point he can only focus on game day experience.

Won't be much he can do about ticket sales this short term, unless he literally promotes a come to the game for free day for Clemson or BC. Which will then anger those who bought tickets to the point that they may not go.

 

[Scooch]

It's just too soon to know. We're 3-3 and have half the season left to play. The last 2 weeks have sucked, but if we can turn things around and win a few more games then this hypothetical changes dramatically.

 

[FAL]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

 

[orange79]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

I have no doubt we would

 

[OrangeXtreme]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

A couple of freshman mistakes. A couple of bad calls.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity.

 

[Orangello]

Do like the rest of us, mute your TV set and get your drink on.

 

[orangeinjersey]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

Why do people keep saying this? If we won the last two, we'd be 5-1 instead of 3-3. If he had won two more games last year, we'd been 5-7. We just lost two games to 1 win teams. He is paid to win football games. Everything else is just fluff.

 

[orangeinjersey]

The next coach whenever it is, has to be an offensive guy. A spread, air raid, whos comitted to bringing the greatest show on turf to the dome. I dont care if we win games giving up 40 points on D. No more north eastern smash mouth meathead football.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

$7-$8 we don't even need that much.

Here is what supposedly the assistants made last year in the ACC:

Clemson $4.5M
FSU $3.5M
VA Tech $3.5M
Louisville $3.25M
UVA $3.0M
NC State $2.75M
GA Tech $2.25M
UNC $2.0M

We only need $3M to be middle of the pack from that list. Since privates usually pay less $2.5M is likely right in the middle.

Then we have the HCs:

FSU $4.0M
Clemson $3.5M
Louisville $3.5M
GA Tech $2.75M
Miami $2.5M
UVA $2.5M
VA Tech $2.5M
Wake $2.5M
Duke $2.25M
BC $2.0M
NC State $2.0M
Pitt $2.0M
UNC $2.0M

We only need $2.5M to be middle of the pack.

So in total we can budget $5M and be the middle of the ACC. We are not in the B1G or the SEC. We don't need to spend like those schools.

 

[Chris02M]

Why do people keep saying this? If we won the last two, we'd be 5-1 instead of 3-3. If he had won two more games last year, we'd been 5-7. We just lost two games to 1 win teams. He is paid to win football games. Everything else is just fluff.

we were also underdogs in both games. virginia had ND beat. Usf giving them a pass for freshmans first game outside carrier dome. we are 1 game off schedule. Splitting pitt-Virginia games was always the goal. Let's not right a obituary for this years team just yet, lets just enjoy the rest of the year

 

[Chris02M]

B and C to me are the only real options. OL and DB Coaching needs improvement more than anything

 

[orangeinjersey]

we were also underdogs in both games. virginia had ND beat. Usf giving them a pass for freshmans first game outside carrier dome. we are 1 game off schedule. Splitting pitt-Virginia games was always the goal. Let's not right a obituary for this years team just yet, lets just enjoy the rest of the year

aghhh we were underdogs? is that the story now? Because this whole board had USF and UVA pegged as wins after the LSU game.

 

[Chris02M]

aghhh we were underdogs? is that the story now? Because this whole board had USF and UVA pegged as wins after the LSU game.

winnable yes,should of won (yes to virginia)(usf game our youth hurt us both in coaching and players themselves as we fell behind 24-3 lets not forget)

 

[jekelish]

You don't really need to extend Shafer right now. His contract goes through 2017, so you can simply retain him and see what happens next year before reassessing the situation.

 

[billsin01]

It's just too soon to know. We're 3-3 and have half the season left to play. The last 2 weeks have sucked, but if we can turn things around and win a few more games then this hypothetical changes dramatically.

True, if we win a couple our feeling changes. I'd agree with that. But do the options change that much? If we're 6-6 -- which I think we'd all agree would actually constitute a pretty strong finish -- are we sure we've got our guy? Conversely if we're 4-8 do we necessarily have to fire him? All I'm saying is that if you're taking a step back and looking at this -- allowing for the fact that there are games yet to be played -- how might you head into the offseason.

So, yes, obviously some upsets along the way would change things but I don't really think these are hypetheticals as much as the actual options that could be in play for Coyle (except for having big money to throw around -- that may be a pipe dream) at the end of the season.

 

[billsin01]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

The simple answer to this question is: yes. You have a brand new AD with a football coach who has yet to really prove himself and is clearly no the AD's chosen guy. That alone creates uncertainty. Add to that a down season last year and a couple disappointing losses already this year with a likely (not guaranteed, but likely) sub-.500 finish. Um, yes, we are having this discussion even if we beat USF or UVA.

Secondly, it's not even a bad discussion per se. There are two options that include extensions for shafer. I mean, yes, one changes some assistants and maybe the AD has input on new hires, but ultimately this is hardly an ax shafer thread.

 

[billsin01]

A couple of freshman mistakes. A couple of bad calls.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity.

Bad calls happen. Injuries happen. Freshman mistakes happen when you, you know, are forced to play freshmen. We're simply not winning and that part is black and white. now maybe we win going forward with Shafe (which is why their are two options to keep him in the freaking poll), but if anyone here thinks a brand new AD won't be making a decision on the future of the football program after this season, they are crazy.

 

[billsin01]

$7-$8 we don't even need that much.

Here is what supposedly the assistants made last year in the ACC:

Clemson $4.5M
FSU $3.5M
VA Tech $3.5M
Louisville $3.25M
UVA $3.0M
NC State $2.75M
GA Tech $2.25M
UNC $2.0M

We only need $3M to be middle of the pack from that list. Since privates usually pay less $2.5M is likely right in the middle.

Then we have the HCs:

FSU $4.0M
Clemson $3.5M
Louisville $3.5M
GA Tech $2.75M
Miami $2.5M
UVA $2.5M
VA Tech $2.5M
Wake $2.5M
Duke $2.25M
BC $2.0M
NC State $2.0M
Pitt $2.0M
UNC $2.0M

We only need $2.5M to be middle of the pack.

So in total we can budget $5M and be the middle of the ACC. We are not in the B1G or the SEC. We don't need to spend like those schools.

True, but you have to get that coach at Syracuse (and assistants) and make him/them believe you can win. I would say that costs you at least an extra $1M all told, maybe more. I'm not saying it's the right path but if the Cuse wants to land a really legit, proven staff, they're going to have to pay at least the $5M, but probably more like $6M-$7M.

 

[billsin01]

we were also underdogs in both games. virginia had ND beat. Usf giving them a pass for freshmans first game outside carrier dome. we are 1 game off schedule. Splitting pitt-Virginia games was always the goal. Let's not right a obituary for this years team just yet, lets just enjoy the rest of the year

I don't think we're discussing obituary as much as the reality that we probably aren't looking anything better than .500. If .500 is the case, it's not pure disaster, but it still calls on a new AD to assess the coaching situation.

 

[billsin01]

You don't really need to extend Shafer right now. His contract goes through 2017, so you can simply retain him and see what happens next year before reassessing the situation.

Fair point. I was thinking it was '16. That changes the hypothetical, but I still think a new AD is going to have to see something to not make some sort of changes (assistants or the HC) in the offseason. That's not to say we couldn't win more games and surprise, but simply that it's not the most likely scenario.

 

[OrangeSky]

<Sigh>

Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

The results are what they are. We have had several wins that could have easily been losses too.

I think Shafer has done decent job recruiting, and a bad job coaching. After 3 years, I still haven't been too impressed with the coaching and I'm not too sure he has the chops to make this program relevant. I was encouraged by the LSU game where I thought he was coaching to win. I feel like he coached not to lose in our winnable games. How many years of learning on the job does it take? I don't know the answer but I think the window is closing.

Having said that, I think we need to wait until the end of this season before making a decision.

 

[Chip]

<Sigh> Would we even be having this discussion if we had won either of the past two games?

Not if we won 6 last year.

But we won 3, so it comes with the territory when the leader makes 7 figures per year.