I'm excited for Thorpe BUT

[tbonezone]

this 5th year grad transfer patch deal tells me that the program is not doing it's job on the recruiting end. geno thorpe is the latest band aid for a skinny class.

 

[Cusesky8214]

this 5th year grad transfer patch deal tells me that the program is not doing it job on the recruiting end. geno thorpe is the latest band aid for a skinny class.

Kansas doesn't seem to have a problem using band aids

 

[orangecuse]

I'm going to have to guess that you're are a college and not NBA guy. Golden State literally led the entire NBA in both the regular season and postseason in Points allowed per shot and finished 2nd in the NBA .2 behind the Spurs and a mile ahead of 3rd place in Defensive (Points allowed per 100 possessions) in the regular season. But sure, go ahead and use a few quarters against by far the 2nd best team in the NBA as reasons to try to make a point that is completely bizarre and not remotely accurate. Between that and someone actually believing that Chukwu being injured was a reason we stunk last year in the same thread, I might have to go listen to Skip or Stephen A for a more realistic take.

Or, don't take yourself so seriously. Remember, opinions vary. Listen to XM-Sirius radio and you'll get a few that feel GS's defense is overrated, FWIW Mad Dog for one, Adam Schein another. The regular season means squat in the NBA, so I take the stats with a grain of salt. If Leonard doesn't get hurt in game one for the Spurs, they were on their way to 110 plus points on the Warriors' home floor. GS is a superb team, but it's clearly their incredible weapons on the offensive side of the ball that makes them that. After the Cavs won against Boston and Lebron commented on facing that "juggernaut," he wasn't referring to their defensive prowess, but certainly their offense and the match up issues for the Cavs due to their very questionable defense. What makes the Warriors the Warriors is their offense, not their defense...attempting to argue that today's NBA cares about defense speaks for itself. Just my $.02.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Or, don't take yourself so seriously. Remember, opinions vary. Listen to XM-Sirius radio and you'll get a few that feel GS's defense is overrated, FWIW Mad Dog for one, Adam Schein another. The regular season means squat in the NBA, so I take the stats with a grain of salt. If Leonard doesn't get hurt in game one for the Spurs, they were on their way to 110 plus points on the Warriors' home floor. GS is a superb team, but it's clearly their incredible weapons on the offensive side of the ball that makes them that. After the Cavs won against Boston and Lebron commented on facing that "juggernaut," he wasn't referring to their defensive prowess, but certainly their offense and the match up issues for the Cavs due to their very questionable defense. What makes the Warriors the Warriors is their offense, not their defense...attempting to argue that today's NBA cares about defense speaks for itself. Just my $.02.

Taking your cues from Mad Dog or Schein should be the first clue that something is wrong. They try to be contrarian. The numbers are the numbers. The Warriors probably defended the most possessions in the NBA due to pace of play, so their umbers are even more noteworthy.

 

[tbonezone]

good for kansas. i don't want to be that program. it lessens the experience.

 

[Cusesky8214]

good for kansas. i don't want to be that program. it lessens the experience.

Good thing we aren't that program. I think for our situations the past few years the grad transfer is a nice option to have. And even after our sanctions may continue to be a nice option depending on the situation. It will be nice to bring in our own talent and develop them but I'm not against bringing in some added firepower when needed. Some on here hate the grad transfer route and to each their own but I think it's something that will be used quite often now in college basketball like it or not.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

The transfer thing is big until NCAA puts the hammer down on it ... but it won't ever hurt blue bloods so I think this trend will only continue (if not increase). It would be a bad sign if we were a program that a fifth year senior wanted to transfer FROM rather than TO ...

Ideally I think transfers at forward make sense ... the zone seems to expect too much from guards and centers (basing this on the fact that it takes centers 2-3 years to learn our system and guards at least a couple years typically.)

 

[orangecuse]

Taking your cues from Mad Dog or Schein should be the first clue that something is wrong. They try to be contrarian. The numbers are the numbers. The Warriors probably defended the most possessions in the NBA due to pace of play, so their umbers are even more noteworthy.

Or, an argument can be made that since GS offense is so remarkable, it doesn't take too long into the game for them to get substantial separation from their opponent, forcing them (opponent) to rush things, get out of their own respective offense, game plan, etc. In doing so, the opponent is completely out of offensive sync, etc., contributing to their own woes and enhancing the facade of high level D by GS. Again, nobody in the NBA fears the Warriors because of their defense, it's their astounding blitzkrieg offense they're concerned of.

 

[jordoo]

Or, an argument can be made that since GS offense is so remarkable, it doesn't take too long into the game for them to get substantial separation from their opponent, forcing them (opponent) to rush things, get out of their own respective offense, game plan, etc. In doing so, the opponent is completely out of offensive sync, etc., contributing to their own woes and enhancing the facade of high level D by GS. Again, nobody in the NBA fears the Warriors because of their defense, it's their astounding blitzkrieg offense they're concerned of.

The Warriors start two elite defenders who can defend multiple positions. Durant had his best year ever on Defense and they bring in Igy off the bench who even late in his career gets it done on D.
I agree that there offense is part of it and that really gets other teams out of their comfort zone and causes them to chase which means they aren't playing offense the way they game planned. Then again that's the whole idea in the NBA. You have the best players in the world, they are going to make buckets. You want to force certain players to make plays or shots and you want to contest as much as you can. NBA offence is water, it's eventually going to go where it goes. You can't stop it but you can slow it down and try to direct it.

The numbers are what they are and G-St played better D than 28 other NBA teams.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Edit: meant to quote RoatanCuse

I don't think a grad transfer is going to be a sure thing to learn the system quickly just like a freshman isn't. Yes I do think Geno will be around this summer. By all accounts he's mature team guy, so he has that going for him.

Geno 1.6 steals per
John 0.8 steals per
Interestingly enough Gillon jumped to 1.4 per at SU playing a couple less minutes and struggling in our defense.

I think Geno will be much better defensively than John. Offensively I think his highs won't be as high and his lows won't be as low.

The off season reports and practice reports are going to be very interesting this year. I can't wait to start hearing stuff from the staff leaking out about all the guys. So many directions things can go with so many guys.

You pretty much reflect my thinking about learning the SU zone. There are zones, then there is JB's more complicated zone.. Interesting about the steals...heartening to see that. I am cautiously lookiing to see a more defensive-minded team this year, and I think our height & athleticism can make that happen. Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.

 

[chugg21]

The Warriors start two elite defenders who can defend multiple positions. Durant had his best year ever on Defense and they bring in Igy off the bench who even late in his career gets it done on D.
I agree that there offense is part of it and that really gets other teams out of their comfort zone and causes them to chase which means they aren't playing offense the way they game planned. Then again that's the whole idea in the NBA. You have the best players in the world, they are going to make buckets. You want to force certain players to make plays or shots and you want to contest as much as you can. NBA offence is water, it's eventually going to go where it goes. You can't stop it but you can slow it down and try to direct it.

The numbers are what they are and G-St played better D than 28 other NBA teams.

Hell, Draymond is definitely winning NBA DPOY as well. Of course the offense gets top billing because its the most unstoppable ever. Combine that with a top 2 defense and that is why they are unbeatable currently..

 

[orangecuse]

The Warriors start two elite defenders who can defend multiple positions. Durant had his best year ever on Defense and they bring in Igy off the bench who even late in his career gets it done on D.
I agree that there offense is part of it and that really gets other teams out of their comfort zone and causes them to chase which means they aren't playing offense the way they game planned. Then again that's the whole idea in the NBA. You have the best players in the world, they are going to make buckets. You want to force certain players to make plays or shots and you want to contest as much as you can. NBA offence is water, it's eventually going to go where it goes. You can't stop it but you can slow it down and try to direct it.

The numbers are what they are and G-St played better D than 28 other NBA teams.

Maybe that stat has more to do with how pathetic the rest of the NBA is when it comes to playing defense? With today's NBA and what it has evolved to in its current state, being better than 28 other NBA teams on D isn't a stat that carries much weight in my opinion.

Again, the Cavs scored 113 points and didn't score in the last 3 minutes of game 3, they broke all kinds of scoring, shooting percentage records in game 4 with 133 points, and had 120 points in defeat in game 5, where they went 5-6 minutes in the 2nd Q up 8 to down 17 points. That scoring drought of theirs had everything to do with Lue's bizarre substitution pattern in that stretch more than anything. Derron Williams, Korver and Shumpert all on the floor!?!?!? Even so, the Cavs still managed to score 60 points in the half on there way to 120.

The Cavs, or anyone in the NBA for that matter, don't lose to the Warriors because of their D, it's because of their astounding offense.

Defensive stats can be misleading, we know that very well as SU fan's and the beloved zone. Statistically, our D in recent years has been relatively solid by the numbers, although as some here have been able to point out when debating this, breaking the game, D stats down further, etc., that can be misconstrued or subject to interpretation.

 

[jordoo]

Maybe that stat has more to do with how pathetic the rest of the NBA is when it comes to playing defense? With today's NBA and what it has evolved to in its current state, being better than 28 other NBA teams on D isn't a stat that carries much weight in my opinion.

You realize that these teams are defending the best offensive players and teams in the world. Where do you see better defense being played? Remember anywhere else you see defense its against offense on a level far below the NBA.

 

[orangenirvana]

I hope Thorpe is the last 5th year guard we see in a while.

The 5th year option is great for filling a gap, but it's pretty lame that we needed to fill the same gap two offseasons in a row.

What's the solution? Boeheim is going to create the best roster he can every season. He's taking advantage of the current rules. I don't see the problem.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Maybe that stat has more to do with how pathetic the rest of the NBA is when it comes to playing defense? With today's NBA and what it has evolved to in its current state, being better than 28 other NBA teams on D isn't a stat that carries much weight in my opinion.

This is an amazing perspective to me.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What's the solution? Boeheim is going to design the best roster he can every season. He's taking advantage of the current rules. I don't see the problem.

The solution to the guard problem is pretty easy. Don't put all your chips in one basket.

 

[orangenirvana]

The solution to the guard problem is pretty easy. Don't put all your chips in one basket.

I'm assuming you're referring to Quade Green. But he would've been a one-and-done anyway so what difference would it make with regard to your point?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm assuming you're referring to Quade Green. But he would've been a one-and-done anyway so what difference would it make with regard to your point?

Green's not a one and done. Way to small.

 

[orangecuse]

You realize that these teams are defending the best offensive players and teams in the world. Where do you see better defense being played? Remember anywhere else you see defense its against offense on a level far below the NBA.

Yes, it's the premise of the point I'm arguing. That defense is relatively inconsequential in today's NBA, it's the immense offensive skill set and talent level of the players that by far supersedes defense. It doesn't matter that GS is arguably a stout defensive team, their incredible offensive prowess is what makes them, quoting LBJ, "the juggernaut" that they are.

 

[jordoo]

Yes, it's the premise of the point I'm arguing. That defense is relatively inconsequential in today's NBA, it's the immense offensive skill set and talent level of the players that by far supersedes defense. It doesn't matter that GS is arguably a stout defensive team, their incredible offensive prowess is what makes them, quoting LBJ, "the juggernaut" that is the Warriors.

Great offense always trumps great defense. That is true at every level. Basketball is an offensive sport. Perhaps you simply don't like the sport because the higher level of play and skill the higher the scores will be. That doesn't mean that playing defense doesn't matter and it doesn't mean that NBA teams aren't playing defense. I can watch an NBA game where both teams are well over 100 points and still see great individual and team defense as well as adjustment to team defense.

Take the best offensive team in college and let them play the worst defensive NBA team statistically. What do you think is going to happen.

 

[orangecuse]

This is an amazing perspective to me.

Just as amazing is how the overall general consensus has been that nobody in the NBA seemingly plays or cares to play any defense.

 

[orangecuse]

Great offense always trumps great defense. That is true at every level. Basketball is an offensive sport. Perhaps you simply don't like the sport because the higher level of play and skill the higher the scores will be. That doesn't mean that playing defense doesn't matter and it doesn't mean that NBA teams aren't playing defense. I can watch an NBA game where both teams are well over 100 points and still see great individual and team defense as well as adjustment to team defense.

Take the best offensive team in college and let them play the worst defensive NBA team statistically. What do you think is going to happen.

Thanks again for making my point. Incredible offense ultimately is the ace in the hole.

 

[Knicks411]

Just as amazing is how the overall general consensus has been that nobody in the NBA seemingly plays or cares to play any defense.

Where is this the consensus?

The Warriors have a great defense. They have the best offense in the history of the league. Both statements can (and are) true. They play at a fast pace so they give up a relatively high amount of points, but we have ways of adjusting for this.

They gave up a lot of points to the Cavs? It's almost like the Cavs have one of the greatest players in the history of the game on their roster, and they surrounded him with great shooting. They also only managed 91 points per 100 possessions in the first game of the series

 

[jordoo]

Just as amazing is how the overall general consensus has been that nobody in the NBA seemingly plays or cares to play any defense.

Only the consensus of those that do not know much about the NBA IMO.

 

[orangecuse]

Where is this the consensus?

The Warriors have a great defense. They have the best offense in the history of the league. Both statements can (and are) true. They play at a fast pace so they give up a relatively high amount of points, but we have ways of adjusting for this.

They gave up a lot of points to the Cavs? It's almost like the Cavs have one of the greatest players in the history of the game on their roster, and they surrounded him with great shooting. They also only managed 91 points per 100 possessions in the first game of the series

Since you're convinced of such, and in your view no question of fact exists, proceed with the filing of your summary judgement.