Im glad that TC is such a good D player

[Ghost]

I think you are partly blaming him for the offense he's forced to play. I also don't like some of the sets we run. They don't work very well. As mentioned earlier, I can't stand the play where he runs to the wing from the opposite corner and immediately passes the ball back to the PG. Don't see the point of it, really. I'd really love to see the offense change a bit and allow him to start taking more backdoor cuts and try to keep the defenders off guard. Just don't see JB doing it.

I guess my point here is that many people are angry about TC and his play on offense, but the reality is JB keeps playing him so maybe TC is doing what is expected of him. I think there are people who should be asking more about why the offense is structured like it is instead of why does TC run around so much.

I try to say in the end that I don't blame him. It's just sort of the result - and it may be the only way to use him if he doesn't show he's more than a one-dimensional player.

Yeah, I always liked the back-door play where the 5 hits him on a back-cut. Worked a few times early last year then we didn't seem to try it again. Oh well.

 

[Townie72]

You have it backwards Townie. All those things happen BECAUSE you can not "slough off" a shooter.

Almost every ACC team played Cooney the same way last year in man. The face guarded him, they didn't leave him to provide help or hedge or double. The bodied him up when he cut, and they fought him through screens. They forced him to catch and shoot out of rhythm or off balance, and they dared him to drive. He shot poorly as a function of that pressure.

That's what I said. Teams were concentrating on TC and not sloughing off. All made more attractive by our lack of offensive alternatives.

 

[kcsu]

Exactly my brother. How is it that no one else is getting this (except of course the ones who actually do like RF)?

Cooney could have stood at the half court line and his man would have been right on him. No one else drew that kind of attention. Which means that guy never ever ever ever helps even if he's the last line of defense to the bucket. Because they are more afraid of a 3-point shot from him than a 2 pointer from someone else.

Total BS

 

[rrlbees]

Total BS

You should ask JB since he has said the same thing.

 

[jordoo]

Trevor is a convenient scape goat to blame the downfall of a glorious 25-0 start on. His shooting slump coincided with our struggles as a team and continued down the stretch run of losses, 1st round ACCT loss and 2nd round NCAAT loss. Now he has struggled to make his 3's in a couple of exhibition games and that frustration has bubbled back up. I think back though and I can't remember anyone hitting their jumpers much at all down the stretch run last season. Every one was slumping on offense which meant they pressed more and defenses could wait for the drive and crowd the lane because most of our guys obviously didn't want to shoot jumpers that they weren't confident they could make. The same thing happened two seasons ago for a long stretch then we got James back and he got hot at MSG. The whole teams suddenly started shooting better and we made a great run to the final 4 where James went cold along with almost everyone other than CJ. MCW who was really hot in the tourney went cold again with his jumper.

The lack of objectivity by some posters in regard to Cooney is very telling especially when you see little snarky hits at him by the same posters.

 

[Millhouse]

Trevor is a convenient scape goat to blame the downfall of a glorious 25-0 start on. His shooting slump coincided with our struggles as a team and continued down the stretch run of losses, 1st round ACCT loss and 2nd round NCAAT loss. Now he has struggled to make his 3's in a couple of exhibition games and that frustration has bubbled back up. I think back though and I can't remember anyone hitting their jumpers much at all down the stretch run last season. Every one was slumping on offense which meant they pressed more and defenses could wait for the drive and crowd the lane because most of our guys obviously didn't want to shoot jumpers that they weren't confident they could make. The same thing happened two seasons ago for a long stretch then we got James back and he got hot at MSG. The whole teams suddenly started shooting better and we made a great run to the final 4 where James went cold along with almost everyone other than CJ. MCW who was really hot in the tourney went cold again with his jumper.

The lack of objectivity by some posters in regard to Cooney is very telling especially when you see little snarky hits at him by the same posters.

the guy shoots 34% from 3 with very high variance.

I'll take a guy with a slightly worse percentage that might not be so feast or famine that can score in other ways

 

[CForth51]

I didn't have the opportunity to watch the exhibition games being away from CNY, so unsure how Cooney has looked this year. I wouldn't put too much stock into his poor numbers though. Someone asked about him being a spark off the bench, and while I'm not arguing he should come off the bench or start, I don't think he should be playing 30 plus minutes. As many have mentioned Cooney works really hard to get open and last year I think he lost his legs late in the season. By getting more rest through the season I would hope his performance would not dip as the season progressed.

This leads me to my question - and I didn't see a line up in the syracuse.com plus/minus article that featured Patterson as the 2 guard with the players that I suspect will get the bulk of the minutes (Joseph, Gbinije, McCullough and Christmas). Did we see this? Do others think this would be a good option? I have been pleasantly surprised with Patterson's numbers and have always thought that he is a good defensive player (much like Cooney), but he does seem susceptible to the bonehead play. Could we see the two of them split time at the off guard or will Patterson see more of the bench when we get to the season?

 

[jordoo]

the guy shoots 34% from 3 with very high variance.

I'll take a guy with a slightly worse percentage that might not be so feast or famine that can score in other ways

This is objective and fair. You express your preference to a more consistent shooter than a streaky one which any objective person (agree or disagree) can see is reasonable.

Edit: I also agree that Cooney needs to diversify his offense.

 

[jordoo]

I didn't have the opportunity to watch the exhibition games being away from CNY, so unsure how Cooney has looked this year. I wouldn't put too much stock into his poor numbers though. Someone asked about him being a spark off the bench, and while I'm not arguing he should come off the bench or start, I don't think he should be playing 30 plus minutes. As many have mentioned Cooney works really hard to get open and last year I think he lost his legs late in the season. By getting more rest through the season I would hope his performance would not dip as the season progressed.

This leads me to my question - and I didn't see a line up in the syracuse.com plus/minus article that featured Patterson as the 2 guard with the players that I suspect will get the bulk of the minutes (Joseph, Gbinije, McCullough and Christmas). Did we see this? Do others think this would be a good option? I have been pleasantly surprised with Patterson's numbers and have always thought that he is a good defensive player (much like Cooney), but he does seem susceptible to the bonehead play. Could we see the two of them split time at the off guard or will Patterson see more of the bench when we get to the season?

In both games Buss played minutes with the main guys. He has played very well, aggressive, confident but also under control. Looks like he is a lock to be a rotational player this year to me.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

Buss didn't hit his open 3's either in 2nd exhibition game but unlike Cooney he looks to do other things on offense. hard to really judge what will happen after 2 exhibition games though

 

[jordoo]

Buss didn't hit his open 3's either in 2nd exhibition game but unlike Cooney he looks to do other things on offense. hard to really judge what will happen after 2 exhibition games though

The few times Cooney has driven the ball or pump faked and dribbled into a pull up (in these two exhibition games) it looked more like he decided it was time to try that since he'd missed jumpers. I think he can do these things to some extent but his hurdle will be doing it in reaction to the defense rather than making a decision to do it. I think Cooney is a shooter who is trying to implement different things into his game. Things he is capable of to some extent, but not comfortable with.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

The few times Cooney has driven the ball or pump faked and dribbled into a pull up (in these two exhibition games) it looked more like he decided it was time to try that since he'd missed jumpers. I think he can do these things to some extent but his hurdle will be doing it in reaction to the defense rather than making a decision to do it. I think Cooney is a shooter who is trying to implement different things into his game. Things he is capable of to some extent, but not comfortable with.

if he doesn't make the adjustments than Buss will eat into his minutes more but lot of people have already written TC off and I just don't think we have seen enough this year to do that. I know you haven't. I would like to see Trevor cut to the basket more instead just run around the 3 point line when he doesn't have the ball

 

[OttoMets]

I think you are partly blaming him for the offense he's forced to play. I also don't like some of the sets we run. They don't work very well. As mentioned earlier, I can't stand the play where he runs to the wing from the opposite corner and immediately passes the ball back to the PG. Don't see the point of it, really. I'd really love to see the offense change a bit and allow him to start taking more backdoor cuts and try to keep the defenders off guard. Just don't see JB doing it.

I guess my point here is that many people are angry about TC and his play on offense, but the reality is JB keeps playing him so maybe TC is doing what is expected of him. I think there are people who should be asking more about why the offense is structured like it is instead of why does TC run around so much.

Good point.

Unfortunately, that'd be tantamount to criticizing the coach, which is exponentially worse than criticizing Cooney and would be dismissing by shouts of "Hall of Fame!" and the like.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Good point.

Unfortunately, that'd be tantamount to criticizing the coach, which is exponentially worse than criticizing Cooney and would be dismissing by shouts of "Hall of Fame!" and the like.

LOL. Exactly. Can't win for trying at this site.

 

[jordoo]

LOL. Exactly. Can't win for trying at this site.

Some arguments cannot be won because we don't know what doing something else would have accomplished or wouldn't have. There is certainly nothing wrong with wishing that we did something else on offense when what we did or do doesn't work. The board issues with criticizing JB are that there is a small minority (hmmmm maybe like with Cooney) that are unreasonable in their criticisms and refusal to give credit for what has been done. This in turn causes supporters to be unreasonable in their defense and then there are a bunch of people in between who would welcome well thought out respectful discussions that were actually objective but that faction is usually lost in the back and forth of the others.

In reality almost no issue with a bball team is as simple as just pointing the figure at one player or coach. Usually its a combination of many factors, players, coaches ect that react in a way fails to produce the desired success. Sometimes things can be changed and improvements can be made but sometimes teams have fatal flaws and changing it up only exposes that same flaw in a different way. Its the same when a team is good, a combination of moving parts and direction that works rather than just one superior player or coach.

 

[asj410]

I just hope we see plenty of Cooney face this season.

 

[CForth51]

I would like to see him expand on his mid-range game too. There is nothing that builds confidence more for a shooter than seeing the ball go in to start a game. A few easy (easier) 15 footers might do Cooney some good. Glad to hear Patterson has a chance at the rotation - think he can provide where we're lacking more so than Johnson. I'm kind of excited for all the unknowns this year and think someone, if not a few guys, are going to be a pleasant surprises.

 

[jordoo]

I would like to see him expand on his mid-range game too. There is nothing that builds confidence more for a shooter than seeing the ball go in to start a game. A few easy (easier) 15 footers might do Cooney some good. Glad to hear Patterson has a chance at the rotation - think he can provide where we're lacking more so than Johnson. I'm kind of excited for all the unknowns this year and think someone, if not a few guys, are going to be a pleasant surprises.

Johnson made about 3 shots in a row (finally) late in the 2nd exhibition and boy does his shot look good. He played good position D on the back line of the zone and covers a lot of territory with his quickness plus he handles more like a guard than a forward. Still very skinny though.

 

[NKR1978]

Good point.

Unfortunately, that'd be tantamount to criticizing the coach, which is exponentially worse than criticizing Cooney and would be dismissing by shouts of "Hall of Fame!" and the like.

The offense has just been awful for the last two years. I miss the 2009, 2010 and 2012 offenses. Hopefully having a point guard who pushes tempo will help the offense. The last two years we've really been too content to let the defense win games.

Is the basketball forum or the football forum?

 

[CaptainJ]

The offense has just been awful for the last two years. I miss the 2009, 2010 and 2012 offenses. Hopefully having a point guard who pushes tempo will help the offense. The last two years we've really been too content to let the defense win games.

Is the basketball forum or the football forum?

I'm not sure about the team, but I find a number of the posts offensive on occasion. Maybe this board will become a role model for the team.

 

[OttoMets]

The offense has just been awful for the last two years. I miss the 2009, 2010 and 2012 offenses. Hopefully having a point guard who pushes tempo will help the offense. The last two years we've really been too content to let the defense win games.

Is the basketball forum or the football forum?

I'll add that I hate what happened to the 2012 offense after Fab's first suspension; he was starting to become a scoring threat in a couple ways (high pick and roll, jumpshooting, etc.). That was looking like a team that was really improving as the year went on. The offense stagnated after Pittsburgh.

 

[Ghost]

the guy shoots 34% from 3 with very high variance.

I'll take a guy with a slightly worse percentage that might not be so feast or famine that can score in other ways

This is pretty much the issue. People want more diversity if he can't show the consistency. I guess at this point it's about how much stock you put in a couple meaningless exhibition games. It is odd to see a great shooter miss a ton of wide open looks though heading into the season. Knowing how important his shooting is because he's on the court so much, and offers up little else thus far in his career - he's a natural focal point.

 

[OGBJ20]

Johnson made about 3 shots in a row (finally) late in the 2nd exhibition and boy does his shot look good. He played good position D on the back line of the zone and covers a lot of territory with his quickness plus he handles more like a guard than a forward. Still very skinny though.

It was good to see him shoot the rock instinctively with full extension in the second half instead of aiming without lift in the first half. He just needs to keep working hard on the other phases of the game while using his athletic abilities and he will make great contributions this year.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Basketball isn't all that complicated.

I tried too, but I just can't let this statement go. Townie, I mostly enjoy your posts, but this comment surprised me.

If it wasn't complicated, almost anyone could do it well. In the grand scheme of things, very few people get paid crazy money to coach basketball teams. It is truly a handful of people who are able to be successful at the upper levels of D1 basketball. As that is the case, it would be difficult to infer that it "isn't complicated"

And as for "minor talent", I have two comments to make. 1) As one of the "handful" of people who has done what is necessary to be successful, JB did not get there by recruiting and playing "minor talent", nor would he be able to stay there recruiting and playing "minor talent". 2) As a roughly top 75-100 player, TC would statistically be considered to be amongst the top 300 - 400 players eligible to play college basketball. I'm not sure what the total number of kids 18-22 yrs old, but I am fairly certain that represents the top couple %. Hardly "minor talent".

Would it be fair to say that your statement may have had a hint of hyperbole to it?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the guy shoots 34% from 3 with very high variance.

I'll take a guy with a slightly worse percentage that might not be so feast or famine that can score in other ways

So... Triche then?