Im glad that TC is such a good D player

[Halo]

Not even one real game has been played yet and we're already having threads like these...must be a sign that an interesting season is upon us.

 

[skurey]

That's a dopey, non-factual statement. 12.1 points per game. 37.5% from three point range. He's not Ray Allen--lets rescind his scholarship!!! He's a role playing, starting caliber ACC player who needs to add consistency.

He is inconsistent. He is way better than you give him credit for, and the fact that you are congenitally incapable of recognizing that is proof positive that you don't have a @#$ clue what you're talking about and completely lack perspective.

Being inconsistent is what bad players do. Again you're the one straw manning about Ray Allen and loss of scholarship.

 

[RF2044]

Being inconsistent is what bad players do. Again you're the one straw manning about Ray Allen and loss of scholarship.

Being inconsistent is what YOUNG players do. Oh Lord

Again, I'm glad that some of you aren't coaches and that people who actually understand the game are.

 

[Townie72]

cooney drew one 1 player tops in man to man coverage. what do you want me to say?

ok.here it is. nobody is afraid of him. truth.

Not according to the PFCs in Cooney's Army. His presence on the court creates a situation in which the other SU players have more freedom to score. Of course, how this works when the opponent is playing man-to-man isn't quite clear.

TC is like having a golf partner who is as likely to shoot par as he is to not breaking 100 on a given day.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Of course he's capable of a better season it can't get much worse

There are a lot of GREAT Syracuse players who had sophomore years worse than Trevor's last year.

 

[RF2044]

Not according to the PFCs in Cooney's Army. His presence on the court creates a situation in which the other SU players have more freedom to score. Of course, how this works when the opponent is playing man-to-man isn't quite clear.

TC is like having a golf partner who is as likely to shoot par as he is to not breaking 100 on a given day.

Correction: it "isn't quite clear" to those who don't understand our half court offensive sets, floor spacing, how our players are coached to improvise, or what the defense is trying to do.

Otherwise, your post is spot on.

 

[rrlbees]

Not according to the PFCs in Cooney's Army. His presence on the court creates a situation in which the other SU players have more freedom to score. Of course, how this works when the opponent is playing man-to-man isn't quite clear. TC is like having a golf partner who is as likely to shoot par as he is to not breaking 100 on a given day.

Or JB and others last year.

"Usually, we get him shots,'' Boeheim said. "We could not get him any shots. Part of that, though, by them guarding him out there, that's why Tyler could drive and C.J. could get it in there.''

 

[NKR1978]

Pointing to the entire distribution and the shape of the curve is hardly "cherry picking stats". In fact, its almost the opposite.

Of course, to the statistically-challenged ...

You've been beating the same drum since he arrived on campus. You only have two more seasons of suffering.

At least you don't seam to be whining that he's a D3 player anymore.

 

[djcon57]

Being inexperienced is what YOUNG players do. Oh Lord

Again, I'm glad that some of you aren't coaches and that people who actually understand the game are.

Who's young?

The Redshirt Junior?

The Redshirt Junior in today's NCAA when it's standard to have teams full of Fresh and Soph going deep into the tourney?

*cringe*

 

[RF2044]

Who's young?

The Redshirt Junior?

The Redshirt Junior in today's NCAA when it's standard to have teams full of Fresh and Soph going deep into the tourney?

*cringe*

Last year, when he was as a first time starter, he was not a redshirt junior.

Facts are tricky, I know.

 

[Townie72]

Or JB and others last year.

"Usually, we get him shots,'' Boeheim said. "We could not get him any shots. Part of that, though, by them guarding him out there, that's why Tyler could drive and C.J. could get it in there.''

Was that quote before or after his second half of the ACC swoon?

Given his erratic shooting, its probably a good idea to not get him any shots.

Let's hope we have much more inside scoring. TC jacking up 3's is the path to the NIT.

 

[djcon57]

Last year, when he was as a first time starter, he was not a redshirt junior.

Facts are tricky, I know.

3 years on campus practicing with the team.

A 3rd year player is not young in today's NCAA.

It's just not. We can agree to disagree with many things, but calling Cooney, a 3rd year player, "young"...yikes

 

[007]

Not according to the PFCs in Cooney's Army. His presence on the court creates a situation in which the other SU players have more freedom to score. Of course, how this works when the opponent is playing man-to-man isn't quite clear.

TC is like having a golf partner who is as likely to shoot par as he is to not breaking 100 on a given day.

I know I am going to regret jumping into this cesspool...

Having a shooter on the floor absolutely limits what teams can do in terms of providing weak side help, hedging ball screens, doubling down on wing post entries, doubling ball screens, ducking under screens rather than fighting through, trailing cutters, and on and on. This is especially true when playing man to man. Those situations get amplified even further when you can have a second shooter on the floor. And anyone who has ever coached above a modified level would tell you the same thing.

 

[orange79]

Stop this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand

Then why did you post the things I was referring to?

 

[RF2044]

3 years on campus practicing with the team.

A 3rd year player is not young in today's NCAA.

It's just not. We can agree to disagree with many things, but calling Cooney, a 3rd year player, "young"...yikes

A third year player is not a redshirt junior--its just not. Last year, he was a redshirt sophomore. And at the beginning of his redshirt SOPHOMORE season, he wasn't a third year player in the sense that he'd completed three years--he was only beginning his third year. The previous two years, he'd been a redshirt who hadn't seen game action, and then a reserve who played sporadically behind two backcourt players who garnered the vast majority of PT. Thus, he wasn't a highly experienced player entering last year--which is why I characterized him as "young."

He was a first year starter. He had first year starter ups and downs. It sucked, but that's a common occurrence for first year starters who haven't played a lot up to that point in their career.

If he has the same type of wild inconsistency this year, I swear to god I will 100% be on the same page as many who are writing him off, because second year starters should iron out some of the kinks and be more mentally prepared to contribute at a higher level as a function of the game experience they have under their belts. But I am not prepared to write him off now, after a couple of exhibitions games, precisely because he was a first year starter, and I expect him to be both better and more consistent as a function of being thrown into the fire last year--and having the aforementioned inconsistency.

As for "yikes" -- "yikes" is comparing a top 75-ish recruit that came in and was redshirted to the blue chip frosh carrying teams like UK deep into the tourney. No comparison. Cooney was recruited as a role player, and that's what he's going to be throughout the rest of his time here on the hill. He'll be at his best when he's a complimentary scorer on a team that can score in other ways. Last year, we didn't have that kind of team and it exacerbated his flaws at the redshirt SOPHOMORE stage of his developmental curve.

So much of this criticism reminds me of the same crap that was expressed about Andy Rautins late in his career. Rautins silenced his detractors with his senior year play. Will Cooney be able to do the same this year and next? We'll see.

 

[RF2044]

I know I am going to regret jumping into this cesspool...

Having a shooter on the floor absolutely limits what teams can do in terms of providing weak side help, hedging ball screens, doubling down on wing post entries, doubling ball screens, ducking under screens rather than fighting through, trailing cutters, and on and on. This is especially true when playing man to man. Those situations get amplified even further when you can have a second shooter on the floor. And anyone who has ever coached above a modified level would tell you the same thing.

007--don't bother. Why would anybody want to hear what a basketball coach has to say about X's and O's?

 

[Townie72]

I know I am going to regret jumping into this cesspool...

Having a shooter on the floor absolutely limits what teams can do in terms of providing weak side help, hedging ball screens, doubling down on wing post entries, doubling ball screens, ducking under screens rather than fighting through, trailing cutters, and on and on. This is especially true when playing man to man. Those situations get amplified even further when you can have a second shooter on the floor. And anyone who has ever coached above a modified level would tell you the same thing.

All those things happen if you can ignore a shooting guard and slough off him defensively.

Let's see how ACC coaches defense SU this year when TC in in there given his erratic shooting.

Take the 9-12 performance out of the mix and TC shot 27% from the 3 pt line in the rest of the ACC games.

 

[Ghost]

Exactly my brother. How is it that no one else is getting this (except of course the ones who actually do like RF)?

Cooney could have stood at the half court line and his man would have been right on him. No one else drew that kind of attention. Which means that guy never ever ever ever helps even if he's the last line of defense to the bucket. Because they are more afraid of a 3-point shot from him than a 2 pointer from someone else.

It's not like he got super-special unique once-in-a-generation attention. He got the same attention most sharpshooters get. The concerning aspect is, and will remain to be, can he be consistent shooting the ball, and, if not, does he offer up enough otherwise to compensate for that?

You CAN overplay him. Just taking a glance at the ACC leaders last year in three point field goals, nobody else shot anywhere near the percentage of 3s as total percentage of field goal attempts as Trevor (except Coron Williams and he shot .613 from two amazingly - Cooney was .478). It hurts him and our offense to some extent that he's so limited otherwise.

We have to have him running around like a maniac on offense most possessions because quite frankly he's not a threat otherwise. You could just stand in front of him and he's just going to catch and reverse the ball. Other players garner enough respect where the overplay is risky - pick your poison kind of deal.

It's kind of bizarre thing to watch on offense to be honest - which I suppose is fantastic if he's hitting shots, but if he isn't half the people on offense are just standing around trying to set screens for him. I do wonder if exhaustion doesn't play a part - the kid was running nonstop across that baseline forever last year...lol

I don't know, if he's shooting well, it pays off, but the results are somewhat disastrous if he isn't. That's not on TC obviously, but it does, and will, continue to make him a focal point for fans.

 

[007]

All those things happen if you can ignore a shooting guard and slough off him defensively.

Let's see how ACC coaches defense SU this year when TC in in there given his erratic shooting.

Take the 9-12 performance out of the mix and TC shot 27% from the 3 pt line in the rest of the ACC games.

You have it backwards Townie. All those things happen BECAUSE you can not "slough off" a shooter.

Almost every ACC team played Cooney the same way last year in man. The face guarded him, they didn't leave him to provide help or hedge or double. The bodied him up when he cut, and they fought him through screens. They forced him to catch and shoot out of rhythm or off balance, and they dared him to drive. He shot poorly as a function of that pressure.

 

[djcon57]

Cooney was recruited as a role player, and that's what he's going to be throughout the rest of his time here on the hill.

We absolutely 100% agree. Cooney is a fantastic role player. It'd be nice to see him used as such.

 

[rrlbees]

All those things happen if you can ignore a shooting guard and slough off him defensively. Let's see how ACC coaches defense SU this year when TC in in there given his erratic shooting. Take the 9-12 performance out of the mix and TC shot 27% from the 3 pt line in the rest of the ACC games.

I don't know how they will defend him this year, a lot depends on the other players too, not just Cooney. I do know how ACC teams defended him last, as described by others here. And they were able to keep doing that because teams had little fear that others who were left unguarded outside would hit anything and our offense generally was subpar. If others this year can hit a jumper or penetrate and finish or kick, maybe how they defense Cooney will change. He can help himself and the team too by going to the basket more.

You may have also noticed last year that when we played teams who would play both zone and m2m, they would mostly play m2m when Cooney was in and zone when he came out. Why? As a team we were better vs m2m.

 

[pearl31]

Of course, how this works when the opponent is playing man-to-man isn't quite clear.

You're seriously going with this as your "proof"??
I'm... just... at a loss
do you get the most basic concepts of basketball?

 

[orange2win]

This is a weird string. Game not shown in my area, but box score shows TC was 3rd leading scorer in the game and only 3 points behind the leader. The opposition was kept to a near record low 35 points, so defense was not the issue. So how come the TC roast?

He's a member of our +30 PtsG club, something none of our current six NBA pros have done, except Carmelo. Quite a feat.

Let's hope for an outstanding senior year from Trevor.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It's not like he got super-special unique once-in-a-generation attention. He got the same attention most sharpshooters get. The concerning aspect is, and will remain to be, can he be consistent shooting the ball, and, if not, does he offer up enough otherwise to compensate for that?

You CAN overplay him. Just taking a glance at the ACC leaders last year in three point field goals, nobody else shot anywhere near the percentage of 3s as total percentage of field goal attempts as Trevor (except Coron Williams and he shot .613 from two amazingly - Cooney was .478). It hurts him and our offense to some extent that he's so limited otherwise.

We have to have him running around like a maniac on offense most possessions because quite frankly he's not a threat otherwise. You could just stand in front of him and he's just going to catch and reverse the ball. Other players garner enough respect where the overplay is risky - pick your poison kind of deal.

It's kind of bizarre thing to watch on offense to be honest - which I suppose is fantastic if he's hitting shots, but if he isn't half the people on offense are just standing around trying to set screens for him. I do wonder if exhaustion doesn't play a part - the kid was running nonstop across that baseline forever last year...lol

I don't know, if he's shooting well, it pays off, but the results are somewhat disastrous if he isn't. That's not on TC obviously, but it does, and will, continue to make him a focal point for fans.

I think you are partly blaming him for the offense he's forced to play. I also don't like some of the sets we run. They don't work very well. As mentioned earlier, I can't stand the play where he runs to the wing from the opposite corner and immediately passes the ball back to the PG. Don't see the point of it, really. I'd really love to see the offense change a bit and allow him to start taking more backdoor cuts and try to keep the defenders off guard. Just don't see JB doing it.

I guess my point here is that many people are angry about TC and his play on offense, but the reality is JB keeps playing him so maybe TC is doing what is expected of him. I think there are people who should be asking more about why the offense is structured like it is instead of why does TC run around so much.

 

[Townie72]

You're seriously going with this as your "proof"??
I'm... just... at a loss
do you get the most basic concepts of basketball?

You might consider canning the theatrics. "I'm at a loss.", indeed. Sounds like Blanch DuBois".

Basketball isn't all that complicated.

The very idea of a minor talent like TC creating havoc in ACC defensive schemes is absurd.