important to remember where shafer left us on defense | Syracusefan.com

important to remember where shafer left us on defense

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6.4>6.21

Effff you Milhouse! ;)
 
Millhouse said:
we were 106th in yards per play in 2015, after being decent in 13 and 14.

6.21 yards in 15, 6.4 this year
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How much did the last three games affect our average?
 
NKR1978 said:
How much did the last three games affect our average?
Expand...
it was 5.52 after florida state which would've been middle of the pack had we stayed there (61st)

of course, stopping after game 9 gives the first three lousy opposing offenses a higher weight

i'm ok with chalking this up to injuries and depth

2015 was bad all year long
 
Pts given up per game


2008 - 32.7(102 of 120) Robinson
2009 - 27.9(81 of 120) Marrone
2010 - 19.3(17 of 120) Marrone
2011 - 28.5(73 of 120) Marrone
2012 - 24.8(47 of 124) Marrone
2013 - 25.4(56 of 125) Shafer
2014 - 24.3(38 of 128) Shafer
2015 - 31.0(90 of 128) Shafer
2016 - 38.6(120 of 128) Babers
2017 - 32.2(102 of 128) Babers
 
Grbac said:
Pts given up per game


2008 - 32.7(102 of 120) Robinson
2009 - 27.9(81 of 120) Marrone
2010 - 19.3(17 of 120) Marrone
2011 - 28.5(73 of 120) Marrone
2012 - 24.8(47 of 124) Marrone
2013 - 25.4(56 of 125) Shafer
2014 - 24.3(38 of 128) Shafer
2015 - 31.0(90 of 128) Shafer
2016 - 38.6(120 of 128) Babers
2017 - 32.2(102 of 128) Babers
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I knew the defense was bad, but this is painful to see. We haven't given up this many points since the worst coach in cfb history was here. Great...
 
orange_in_VA said:
I knew the defense was bad, but this is painful to see. We haven't given up this many points since the worst coach in cfb history was here. Great...
Expand...

Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
 
721Comstock said:
Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
Expand...
Yeah, it's almost impossible to look at some of these stats year over year in a vacuum. So many other factors contribute to total points allowed and other stats. While Shafer's defenses were really more fun to watch due to sacks and turnovers, were they really that much better than the D has been under Ward (I'd say no). People seem to forget about a lot of the blowout losses under the Shafer defenses, and pick and choose the stats to fit their own narrative.

Don't get me wrong, I still think there is a lot of work to do on the defensive side of the ball, but we aren't that far away from being consistently good on defense. Just need some depth on the DL and better play makers in the secondary.
 
721Comstock said:
Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
Expand...

Shafer had to start AJ Long. I repeat, AJ Long. Injuries happen to literally every team in college football. The Offense hasn't scored more than the defense has given up in 16 of 24 games. Why is everyone so focused on the last 3?
 
FasterCuse said:
Yeah, it's almost impossible to look at some of these stats year over year in a vacuum. So many other factors contribute to total points allowed and other stats. While Shafer's defenses were really more fun to watch due to sacks and turnovers, were they really that much better than the D has been under Ward (I'd say no). People seem to forget about a lot of the blowout losses under the Shafer defenses, and pick and choose the stats to fit their own narrative.

Don't get me wrong, I still think there is a lot of work to do on the defensive side of the ball, but we aren't that far away from being consistently good on defense. Just need some depth on the DL and better play makers in the secondary.
Expand...

Ward doesn't belong in the same conversation as Shafer when it comes to coaching defense. It's not even close. Shafer's defenses were more often than not better in every way.
 
orange_in_VA said:
Ward doesn't belong in the same conversation as Shafer when it comes to coaching defense. It's not even close. Shafer's defenses were more often than not better in every way.
Expand...

True, but he's at least trending better even after the last three games compared to how Bullough trended over his career here.

Shafer's defense won us 8 games in 2010.
 
721Comstock said:
Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
Expand...
So we compare these stats to Shafer but give Babers the caveat of losing his starting QB during the last 3 games. Apples to Apples here people, Shafer didn't have his starting QB the last 2 years he was here. The last year he was down to Kimble. Let's keep this honest shall we?
 
Pyle said:
So we compare these stats to Shafer but give Babers the caveat of losing his starting QB during the last 3 games. Apples to Apples here people, Shafer didn't have his starting QB the last 2 years he was here. The last year he was down to Kimble. Let's keep this honest shall we?
Expand...

When Shafer had his full compliment of players how many wins against 10 win teams did he have?
 
721Comstock said:
Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
Expand...

Here's the thing that I get and other defensive meatheads get. If you keep the score low and close when you are outmanned then you give yourself the luck factor. Shafer kept games close so if you get a bounce your way, i.e. a pick 6(his aggressive defense was designed to confuse QBs and force mistakes), a fumble, a PR for a TD, etc then you might just have a chance. Babers philosophy doesn't offer this, we just get our doors blown off by competent QBs.
 
721Comstock said:
Sigh.

Once the O blew up with Dungey out, the D started getting torched, since the O couldn't sustain anything, so our opponents got the ball back again & again, they scored, lather rinse repeat.

Even in the optimum, best case scenario, our D is likely to give up more points just due to the overall increased tempo of the game, due to our O going faster.

Both teams get more possessions - hence both teams have a higher chance for all counting stats to increase, both for and against them.

It's almost irrelevant; as long as our O is scoring more points per game than the D gives up. The problem is, that wasn't happening for the last 3 games, at all.

Shafer's teams were "better" in that regard, since they moved VERRRRRRRY slowly on O, which limited the total # of plays for both teams.
Yay, lower scoring losses! :rolleyes:
Expand...

Offense points per game-

Babers:
2017 - 27.4 (4 wins)
2016 - 25.7 (4 wins)

Shafer:
2015 - 27.2 (4 wins)
2014 - 17.1 (3 wins)
2013 - 22.7 (7 wins)

Where is the offense everyone keeps thinking is happening here? I'm all about keeping Babers, but I'm sick of seeing the continued blind faith after what we have seen and what the stats show to be true.
 
NKR1978 said:
When Shafer had his full compliment of players how many wins against 10 win teams did he have?
Expand...
Shafer only had his full roster during his first year. Hunt went down both in year 2 and year 3. During that first year he went to a bowl game, our only bowl appearance since joining the ACC.
 
Grbac said:
Pts given up per game


2008 - 32.7(102 of 120) Robinson
2009 - 27.9(81 of 120) Marrone
2010 - 19.3(17 of 120) Marrone
2011 - 28.5(73 of 120) Marrone
2012 - 24.8(47 of 124) Marrone
2013 - 25.4(56 of 125) Shafer
2014 - 24.3(38 of 128) Shafer
2015 - 31.0(90 of 128) Shafer
2016 - 38.6(120 of 128) Babers
2017 - 32.2(102 of 128) Babers
Expand...

I’d rather see yards per play year over year. And not because I think ward is better because I think shafer is a better DC than Ward.
 
Pyle said:
Here's the thing that I get and other defensive meatheads get. If you keep the score low and close when you are outmanned then you give yourself the luck factor. Shafer kept games close so if you get a bounce your way, i.e. a pick 6(his aggressive defense was designed to confuse QBs and force mistakes), a fumble, a PR for a TD, etc then you might just have a chance. Babers philosophy doesn't offer this, we just get our doors blown off by competent QBs.
Expand...
Shafer also punted when the game was in garbage time to keep scores down.
Shafer should have been fired after year 2. He isn’t a HC and nevermind a P5 HC.
 
Bayside44 said:
Come on that Villanova kid missed a 25 yarder. He was a terrible head coach.

Gross hired him for "continuity," and I am pretty sure Gross does not know what word means.
Expand...
Villanova is clearly not a G5 so your point is null (*sarcasm*)
 
Our defense needs speed plain and simple.
The LBs and DBs need to be faster.
Just get speed. S&C can add pounds during development but you can’t teach speed.
Our safeties are so slow without Cordy even.
 
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