In a way, it has always been smoke and mirrors

[TheCusian]

Certainly still seemed special still at olmiss.

Not the same offense. They are running a hybrid, next gen offense. Tempo, simple reads, different routes and runs

 

[Millhouse]

Dino was at Eastern Illinois only two years and won with his predecessor's players. He was not there long enough to build a program. He moved on to bowling Green. Exact same scenario. He didn't build a program. Then he moved to SU, was gifted with a once in a generation QB, and after the first three years he has shown that he can't build a program here either.

Sure, the "fastest thing on turf" talk, the post game speeches, all the rah rah stuff made us want to believe but he simply has not backed it up. He has been the modern verbal version of Coach Mac but without the accomplishment.

I think he gets until the end of the season but the writing is on the wall and in retrospect, was on the wall last year.

It is sad, but this isn't like we are throwing a homeless person onto the street. He has made $15M-$20M at SU. Very few gigs in life where you can make that kind of change and not produce results.

I have felt that he needed a bowl and a bowl win. For the life of me I can't see a path to a bowl. The team could surprise us but right now the offense seems worse than last year...you know, the year where we had injuries, no spring practice, yada yada yada. Those excuses are off the table and what is different?

I was hanging off the Dino Wagon by my fingernails but the punt in the 4th Quarter did it for me. Also, losing to Rutgers did it for me. In a way that I never admitted to myself until now, last year also did it for me. Maybe he will survive but I really can't see how nor can I see why it would even be a good thing at this point.

Once in a generation?

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Once in a generation?

I have always heard “once in a generation” to be synonymous with about 20 years so as it pertains to SU, Dungey was a once in a generation QB.

 

[Eric15]

I've said this before, but the first time I noticed something wasn't right with Dino's decision making was the 2018 game at Clemson. He completely screwed us over by not using his timeouts effectively when Clemson was clearly about to score. So instead of potentially having 2 minutes to work with we had 30 seconds to go the length of the field.

But any criticism of him at that point would have caused the entire site to crash due to collective hyperventilation.

Dino needs to coach against Liberty like his job depends on it. That game is the crossroads of the season. We win and go 3-1, and we're still totally on track for a bowl game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I've said this before, but the first time I noticed something wasn't right with Dino's decision making was the 2018 game at Clemson. He completely screwed us over by not using his timeouts effectively when Clemson was clearly about to score. So instead of potentially having 2 minutes to work with we had 30 seconds to go the length of the field.

But any criticism of him at that point would have caused the entire site to crash due to collective hyperventilation.

Dino needs to coach against Liberty like his job depends on it. That game is the crossroads of the season. We win and go 3-1, and we're still totally on track for a bowl game.

Dino needs to control what he can control.

 

[Millhouse]

I have always heard “once in a generation” to be synonymous with about 20 years so as it pertains to SU, Dungey was a once in a generation QB.

At SU, ok he's better than arob and dantley and Patterson

I think you're overselling it. Dungey was good. Devito isn't. That's what we have to go on. If he should go for not realizing who devito is and not recruiting, ok with me, I don't care. But it's all about QB and we have seen two, really

 

[Dick_in_MI]

At SU, ok he's better than arob and dantley and Patterson

I think you're overselling it. Dungey was good. Devito isn't. That's what we have to go on. If he should go for not realizing who devito is and not recruiting, ok with me, I don't care. But it's all about QB and we have seen two, really

I’m not really sure what you mean. I wasn’t talking about Devito.

 

[Geode]

This is a great post from a fair and level headed person. And it's telling.

I was trying to hold on for dear life myself, but something drastic has to happen from here on out. This wasn't as bad as the Maryland fiasco because at least one unit on the team performed very well. But for us to hire an offensive guy and in year 6 (year 5 of his chosen QB) to only have 1 TD against Rutgers at home. Even if we give him 2 TDs on the Taj fumble.

I'm starting to head down that smoke & mirrors snake oil path. I didn't listen to the postgame press conference, just read some of the transcript. Didn't listen today either. I find myself not wanting to hear these same old anecdotes over and over. Credit him for staying calm and not going crazy like Shafer, but still. Just no interest in hearing them anymore.

This….. I just don’t have it in me to listen to what is coming out of the program anymore.

 

[elimunelson]

I have always heard “once in a generation” to be synonymous with about 20 years so as it pertains to SU, Dungey was a once in a generation QB.

McNabb was once in a generation. Donnie was too (Maxwell Award). Dungey was merely good.

People want to assume it was all rosy with him under center that final year but there was times where he was more Nunes than Magician. Not a shot at him b/c he was a warrior but let's tap the breaks on great/Dungey. He was very good. But he's still behind the other guys during my Syracuse QB mt rushmore. I'd even argue Kevin Mason was as good as Dungey but the times were diff and a harder one to get any real perspective on.

We need good consistently under center. I'd love another McNabb or Donnie (or even Marvin) but we need to hit on a good QB more often than not. Weirdly I feel like this is a controllable for Syracuse because there are only so many starting QB gigs in power5 football in a controlled environment like Carrier Dome.

 

[OburgOrange]

McNabb was once in a generation. Donnie was too (Maxwell Award). Dungey was merely good.

People want to assume it was all rosy with him under center that final year but there was times where he was more Nunes than Magician. Not a shot at him b/c he was a warrior but let's tap the breaks on great/Dungey. He was very good. But he's still behind the other guys during my Syracuse QB mt rushmore. I'd even argue Kevin Mason was as good as Dungey but the times were diff and a harder one to get any real perspective on.

We need good consistently under center. I'd love another McNabb or Donnie (or even Marvin) but we need to hit on a good QB more often than not. Weirdly I feel like this is a controllable for Syracuse because there are only so many starting QB gigs in power5 football in a controlled environment like Carrier Dome.

Agree with all this. I watched them all play. The common denominator…Dual threat

 

[elimunelson]

Agree with all this. I watched them all play. The common denominator…Dual threat

I think as time goes on, I marvel at how incredible it was to watch McNabb for 4 years and do what he did.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Bigger question is how did Dino not get any WRs in after having 100 catches guys year 1 and year 2 plus an Elite 11 QB to throw it to them.

This! The fact that we couldn’t score any big wins in that department is telling.

 

[SUFan44]

At SU, ok he's better than arob and dantley and Patterson

I think you're overselling it. Dungey was good. Devito isn't. That's what we have to go on. If he should go for not realizing who devito is and not recruiting, ok with me, I don't care. But it's all about QB and we have seen two, really

I’d say I personally have seen 2.5 - McNabb, Dungey and Nassib senior year. Too young to remember Don McPherson or Marvin Graves (who I think is overrated by this fan base based on results but I didn’t really see him play so can’t judge).

All that said, it’s difficult for me to understand how we can go 25 years with 2.5 viable QB’s.

 

[Scooch]

But it's all about QB and we have seen two, really

That's part of the problem. It's Dino's 6th year, and his QB recruiting has been so lousy that he's only started the guy he inherited and one other. I've been reading for years on this site about how we're "so deep" at QB, and then we end up using walkons and guys who should be TEs as injury replacements.

Even this year, we're banking on a transfer to save the season. What about all the failed QB recruits over the past 5 years? Where are they, and why shouldn't Dino be accountable for that?

 

[Scooch]

McNabb was once in a generation. Donnie was too (Maxwell Award). Dungey was merely good.

People want to assume it was all rosy with him under center that final year but there was times where he was more Nunes than Magician. Not a shot at him b/c he was a warrior but let's tap the breaks on great/Dungey. He was very good. But he's still behind the other guys during my Syracuse QB mt rushmore. I'd even argue Kevin Mason was as good as Dungey but the times were diff and a harder one to get any real perspective on.

We need good consistently under center. I'd love another McNabb or Donnie (or even Marvin) but we need to hit on a good QB more often than not. Weirdly I feel like this is a controllable for Syracuse because there are only so many starting QB gigs in power5 football in a controlled environment like Carrier Dome.

This program won 10 games with RJ Anderson and Troy Nunes, won 6 games with Perry Patterson, won 8 games with sophomore Ryan Nassib, and won 7 games with Terrell Hunt. Needless to say, any program would be better with a top-flight QB, but even this program has managed to get to bowl games with mediocre-to-barely-above-average QBs. So what does that say about DeVito and Babers?

 

[All4SU]

McNabb was once in a generation. Donnie was too (Maxwell Award). Dungey was merely good.

People want to assume it was all rosy with him under center that final year but there was times where he was more Nunes than Magician. Not a shot at him b/c he was a warrior but let's tap the breaks on great/Dungey. He was very good. But he's still behind the other guys during my Syracuse QB mt rushmore. I'd even argue Kevin Mason was as good as Dungey but the times were diff and a harder one to get any real perspective on.

We need good consistently under center. I'd love another McNabb or Donnie (or even Marvin) but we need to hit on a good QB more often than not. Weirdly I feel like this is a controllable for Syracuse because there are only so many starting QB gigs in power5 football in a controlled environment like Carrier Dome.

Both of those other QBs had far better supporting casts around them. Don’t get me wrong, I’d take either McNabb or McPherson over Dungey all things being equal. But he was a unique college talent given the circumstances. And he maximized it.

 

[Chip]

That's part of the problem. It's Dino's 6th year, and his QB recruiting has been so lousy that he's only started the guy he inherited and one other. I've been reading for years on this site about how we're "so deep" at QB, and then we end up using walkons and guys who should be TEs as injury replacements.

Even this year, we're banking on a transfer to save the season. What about all the failed QB recruits over the past 5 years? Where are they, and why shouldn't Dino be accountable for that?

In the end, Dino's going to be accountable for all of it. He needs the cliche to change to biggest improvement being between week 2 and week 4.

As far as depth, maybe it's all bad depth or bad players, not sure. But we have 5 scholarship QBs. I can't recall how often that has happened. It's usually a walk-on in there somewhere, often the backup.

We have 4 scholarship RBs who have all done good to very good things in games at some point in their careers.

WR still seems concerning. Taj is our best, but he doesn't stack up with AET, Ishmael, or even Custis. The younger guys have one thing going for them, other big schools offered them scholarships. Bigger concern here is that maybe Dino is only more likely to play younger guys when left with no choice because there's no one older in front of them.

TE remains an unsolved mystery, and OL is a project unto itself. Seems like both tackles are playing well. Is Tisdale the only weak link? I mentioned Vet in a couple plays (Taj TD, Shrader sack). Maybe those stunts weren't his assignment, but he was the guy standing there and reacting late.

Another concern, what if our issue isn't the talent itself, but our staff just doesn't have the ability to develop that talent. Look at a kid like Nassib. Played in a wing T in HS, but showed some good tools. He seemed to get better each year under Marrone, culminating with an outstanding senior season. That doesn't seem to be happening here at QB.

 

[TheCusian]

This program won 10 games with RJ Anderson and Troy Nunes, won 6 games with Perry Patterson, won 8 games with sophomore Ryan Nassib, and won 7 games with Terrell Hunt. Needless to say, any program would be better with a top-flight QB, but even this program has managed to get to bowl games with mediocre-to-barely-above-average QBs. So what does that say about DeVito and Babers?

Not much, IMO.

The days of Mac and P's recruiting had dried up for a lot of reasons outside of Syracuse's control and a few within it - but it's important to put those years in context. CFB landscape and recruiting has changed and it's not favorable to a NE private school. Maybe NIL and the transfer portal helps mitigate it, but who knows. RJ Anderson, Troy Nunes, and Perry Patterson all had better talent around them.

Sophomore Ryan Nassib was ok and that was a historically easy schedule. Hunt's year is kind of amazing - full credit to that staff making lemonade out of lemons vs a difficult schedule and a bad OC.

I do think Dino should shoulder a lot of blame for not having a better backup his entire tenure outside of 2018 and this year. It's crazy that we started Mahoney, Rex, etc.

 

[Scooch]

Not much, IMO.

The days of Mac and P's recruiting had dried up for a lot of reasons outside of Syracuse's control and a few within it - but it's important to put those years in context. CFB landscape and recruiting has changed and it's not favorable to a NE private school. Maybe NIL and the transfer portal helps mitigate it, but who knows. RJ Anderson, Troy Nunes, and Perry Patterson all had better talent around them.

Sophomore Ryan Nassib was ok and that was a historically easy schedule. Hunt's year is kind of amazing - full credit to that staff making lemonade out of lemons vs a difficult schedule and a bad OC.

I do think Dino should shoulder a lot of blame for not having a better backup his entire tenure outside of 2018 and this year. It's crazy that we started Mahoney, Rex, etc.

I disagree with the "not much". Good coaches find a way to win, at least moderately. You said it yourself, Shafer managed to win 7 after the program lost Nassib, Sales, Lemon and Pugh. To date, Dino has done that once in 5 years. Good QBs find a way to make people better. I've seen zero evidence that DeVito does that, in fact all I hear is that he needs pristine conditions to succeed, which simply isn't how it will ever go at SU.

 

[baggerbob]

Both of those other QBs had far better supporting casts around them. Don’t get me wrong, I’d take either McNabb or McPherson over Dungey all things being equal. But he was a unique college talent given the circumstances. And he maximized it.

McNabb and Mcpherson had Konrad, and Moose as fullbacks, without their great blocking the option doesn't work.

 

[elimunelson]

McNabb and Mcpherson had Konrad, and Moose as fullbacks, without their great blocking the option doesn't work.

Going to hot take this thread into oblivion but i think that McNabb with current Syracuse roster > Tommy Devito current Syracuse roster.

 

[baggerbob]

Going to hot take this thread into oblivion but i think that McNabb with current Syracuse roster > Tommy Devito current Syracuse roster.

I agree but the reason that offense worked was a great blocking fullback. Graves was very good, but didn't have a Moose, or Konrad.

 

[elimunelson]

I agree but the reason that offense worked was a great blocking fullback. Graves was very good, but didn't have a Moose, or Konrad.

I agree it didn't work with Marvin Graves. He only got to the Aloha Bowl, Hall of Fame Bowl (MVP), and the Fiesta Bowl (Also MVP). Graves was sensational.


That 1993 season always struck me as the one that got away. Had they beaten (not tied Texas) I think they go into the Miami game a different team. I assume they beat BC at home. Prob looking at two top 5 teams going against each other.

BC game was first time in 229 games!?!?!? where they lost scoring 29 pts. Fun one to watch


EDIT: Watch the offensive line blocking out of the I and Wishbone. Thing of beauty with John Reagan. Was nice when we could recruit line play

 

[TheCusian]

I disagree with the "not much". Good coaches find a way to win, at least moderately. You said it yourself, Shafer managed to win 7 after the program lost Nassib, Sales, Lemon and Pugh. To date, Dino has done that once in 5 years. Good QBs find a way to make people better. I've seen zero evidence that DeVito does that, in fact all I hear is that he needs pristine conditions to succeed, which simply isn't how it will ever go at SU.

With a healthy Dungey and a “normal” ACC slate (those first two years were FSU/Clemson/Louisville contending for playoff spots) - I believe Dino would have gone bowling in 2016 and 2017.

He put a lot of eggs in the DeVito basket and it might end up getting him in the end. It happens - and honestly - if the next coach gets an elite 11 kid we’d all be amped again.

 

[All4SU]

Going to hot take this thread into oblivion but i think that McNabb with current Syracuse roster > Tommy Devito current Syracuse roster.

I can’t imagine anyone would argue against that.