Inside Syracuse’s rough off-season: How portal misses and a lack of NIL money led to a lost year

[Scotch]

I know. And how many posts have I read today about our fans not being engaged. Yet we get a Top 10 fanbase comment hah. Gimme a break. Which is it?

Of course it’s not engaged right now, but when we are good we drive TV numbers, pack stadiums, etc. listen to Scooch, he knows more than you.

You seem to be running interference for mediocrity. Have fun with that.

 

[Red2003]

That’s not at all how you determine the size of a fan base.

Feel free to not believe me. I’m telling you with absolutely certainty that Syracuse has one of the 10 largest college basketball fan bases in the U.S.

And I’ll ignore your immature and unnecessary snark.

I stand corrected on it being higher for just hoops. I was looking at all sports aggregated.

ChatGPT came back saying we were exactly #10 for hoops so I’ll give ya that.

Overall though including football which is a much bigger piece of the pie it matters tho

 

[Red2003]

Of course it’s not engaged right now, but when we are good we drive TV numbers, pack stadiums, etc. listen to Scooch, he knows more than you.

You seem to be running interference for mediocrity. Have fun with that.

I’m all for a clean house mentality and the university becoming serious. Just telling people the deck is stacked against us and just because we think we deserve better doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

 

[Scooch]

I stand corrected on it being higher for just hoops. I was looking at all sports aggregated.

ChatGPT came back saying we were exactly #10 for hoops so I’ll give ya that.

Overall though including football which is a much bigger piece of the pie it matters tho

I suspect you’re still not really grasping what I’m saying.

Syracuse has an enormous basketball fan base. Well beyond any alumni count. There are highly avid SU hoops fans throughout NY state (and beyond) that have no direct tie to the university.

Many of these people (a) aren’t SU football fans (either at all or to the same degree), and (b) have a lot of money.

We have advantages in hoops that all but the biggest brands of the SEC and B1G can match. People who claim otherwise are trotting out the same cynical rationalizations they’ve used for football for 20 years.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Honestly I don’t even worry about those SEC and B1G teams (and Duke). We’ll always lose to them in terms of player compensation.

What I hope SU is prepared for is that the next level of programs all have more to spend than last year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So next year is a failure, regardless of coach, unless we're a top 7 seed?

Let's start with the obvious - next year is a failure before the season even gets underway if our season ticket sales drop below 10,000.

How much winning do you think Autry needs to get us back to 20,000 people showing up for games instead of 5-8,000 in person like we're seeing right now.

Do you think fans are going to come storming back in numbers for a bubble team?

Do you think Autry is suddenly going to learn how to coach defense?

Let's just talk about what we're hearing.

Let's say Donnie Freeman and Choppa Moore leave, which seems quite possible.

Eddie, Taylor, Carlos and Davis are all gone.

Our potential returnees are Starling (probable), Bell (unlikely), Cuffe and Petar Majstorovic. I can't imagine using a scholarship again on Chance Westry.

Dasher says we only have enough NIL to get 4 or 5 players from the portal.

That leaves Starling, Cuffe and Anthony as our guards right now.
Sadiq White as the only forward, unless Freeman is back.
Petar is our only body at Center.

OK, so where do we shop? We clearly need a starting center and a starting PG. We need another 2 forwards if Freeman leaves. That's our whole enchilada for the portal.

That's like 9 or 10 guys. That's not enough to get through a season healthy.

I can't see Moore staying with Anthony coming in. I would hope Freeman stays, and some say he will, but him shutting down his whole season the way he did doesn't bode well.

Neither did Red's handling of him. In 14 games, Freeman played about half the game or less in 11 of them. Not what most Mickey Dee's are expecting, I'll bet.

I have a hard time seeing that group even being in the middle of the pack in the ACC, let alone having a shot at the tournament bubble - unless you're talking about the ACC Tournament Bubble again, like we are this year.

 

[Dinkyspond]

I don't get why we have trouble raising NIL funds for basketball. We've been a basketball school for nearly 50 years now. I have met so many "basketball only" fans who would only support basketball because football has been in the doldrums for 25 years. Where are these basketball only fans now? Definitely not doling out the NIL dollars
I guess. Football seems to be competitive in NIL, is this because of Fran Brown and his ability to fire up the fan base, not to mention win 10 games in year 1?

 

[Millhouse]

I’m talking about athletics as a whole. Heck the football coaches just are getting new offices now. The football locker is already outdated from when it got “renovated” during Babers tenure. Melo center barely has enough workout equipment and is already starting to show its age. Big time programs do big time things and you can see that if you look at other schools and how they are constantly getting ahead on everything makes an impression. Currently Syracuse doesn’t operate like a big time program. Fran is doing his best but that is because he raised millions of dollars from people that were out of football bc of Dino. But even he knows they have some catching up to do to be considered big time

Barely had enough workout equipment? There aren't that many players. When I hear stuff like this, I dont know why anyone gives them money. Either it's not true and they're never satisfied or they're spending the money on all the swing things.

 

[Millhouse]

Hah I know. All day long the metrics fly around here to push whatever arguments people are pushing but I ask AI to simply count the # of alumni out there for the top 50 colleges and now it can’t be right haha.

UB has a lot of alumni, big deal

 

[Cusefan0307]

Did I say mid majors? I said SEC and Bi1G and all the things you said they have and give more.

I’m telling you that’s not on the table competing with them.

Yet you sit here saying we can be more creative with NIL and fundraising.

We are ranked lower than about 50 mid majors this year. Not everything is an NIL problem. The school got complacent and we hired the wrong guy.

If we can’t compete then just say you’re going to go to the Patriot league and don’t dump 150 million in the dome to lead your fans on.

The right coach will win here. It probably won’t be Red. This is exactly like the people who thought we couldn’t do any better than Dino and others on the football side.

 

[pearl31]

Let's start with the obvious - next year is a failure before the season even gets underway if our season ticket sales drop below 10,000.

How much winning do you think Autry needs to get us back to 20,000 people showing up for games instead of 5-8,000 in person like we're seeing right now.

Do you think fans are going to come storming back in numbers for a bubble team?

Do you think Autry is suddenly going to learn how to coach defense?

Let's just talk about what we're hearing.

Let's say Donnie Freeman and Choppa Moore leave, which seems quite possible.

Eddie, Taylor, Carlos and Davis are all gone.

Our potential returnees are Starling (probable), Bell (unlikely), Cuffe and Petar Majstorovic. I can't imagine using a scholarship again on Chance Westry.

Dasher says we only have enough NIL to get 4 or 5 players from the portal.

That leaves Starling, Cuffe and Anthony as our guards right now.
Sadiq White as the only forward, unless Freeman is back.
Petar is our only body at Center.

OK, so where do we shop? We clearly need a starting center and a starting PG. We need another 2 forwards if Freeman leaves. That's our whole enchilada for the portal.

That's like 9 or 10 guys. That's not enough to get through a season healthy.

I can't see Moore staying with Anthony coming in. I would hope Freeman stays, and some say he will, but him shutting down his whole season the way he did doesn't bode well.

Neither did Red's handling of him. In 14 games, Freeman played about half the game or less in 11 of them. Not what most Mickey Dee's are expecting, I'll bet.

I have a hard time seeing that group even being in the middle of the pack in the ACC, let alone having a shot at the tournament bubble - unless you're talking about the ACC Tournament Bubble again, like we are this year.

I mean I agree with pretty much all of this, but it's kinda neither here nor there in regard to my question...
Winning, even incrementally, is all that can be done for renewed fan engagement - how to get to that, how to go from terrible and losing to good and winning can be achieved in different ways, including cleaning house as well as a retained coach figuring it out. The latter is unlikely and we'll find out soon enough.
I don't know, though, who you think they would/could hire to instantly fill up the dome again, like before the product on the court is even evident.
All that matters is winning.

 

[Bulldog04]

Barely had enough workout equipment? There aren't that many players. When I hear stuff like this, I dont know why anyone gives them money. Either it's not true and they're never satisfied or they're spending the money on all the swing things.

You can come with me to the melo center to see for yourself. They have 2 treadmills that work in the smallest workout room I’ve ever seen

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Talents fine apart from PG. Coach is awful and by far the worst ACC/P4 coach.

We've fallen further in hoops than Nebraska has in football. Carmelo's son isn't a top 50 recruit and is being touted as a Cooper Flagg type of savior.

 

[hoopsupstate]

You can come with me to the melo center to see for yourself. They have 2 treadmills that work in the smallest workout room I’ve ever seen

The mens and women’s program has been trying to get a new treadmill for a year. You can’t make this up. Very sad, but also pathetic.

 

[Consigliere]

How much winning do you think Autry needs to get us back to 20,000 people showing up for games instead of 5-8,000 in person like we're seeing right now.

5-8000? Respect you completely Matt, but you either don’t go to games or you are really bad at estimating crowd size.

Nowhere near the crowds we used to see, but we haven’t had less than 10,000 for a game and several legit crowds of over 20,000.

 

[Scooch]

The mens and women’s program has been trying to get a new treadmill for a year. You can’t make this up. Very sad, but also pathetic.

How does this make any sense? Like, Red could buy a couple more professional caliber treadmills if he wanted to. Do we need to send him an Amazon link?

 

[Cusefan0307]

5-8000? Respect you completely Matt, but you either don’t go to games or you are really bad at estimating crowd size.

Nowhere near the crowds we used to see, but we haven’t had less than 10,000 for a game and several legit crowds of over 20,000.

Someone here who does not have a history of blowing smoke confirmed through a dome contact we had less than 5000 through the gate for a game against one of the best ACC teams this year.

 

[Scooch]

You can come with me to the melo center to see for yourself. They have 2 treadmills that work in the smallest workout room I’ve ever seen

Like I said to hoopsupstate, couldn’t Red just buy a couple treadmills? The guy makes at least $2-3 million a year.

My wife’s an elementary school music teacher and has to buy stuff for her classes. I’m sure Red could buy a treadmill if it’s so critical.

 

[Consigliere]

Someone here who does not have a history of blowing smoke confirmed through a dome contact we had less than 5000 through the gate for a game against one of the best ACC teams this year.

For a women’s game maybe. I have been at every game for many years and that is just laughable.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For a women’s game maybe. I have been at every game for many years and that is just laughable.

I’ve had season tickets for two decades as well. I’ve skipped more games this year for a few reasons besides the fact we stink. There is no way attendance is anywhere close to what’s been announced this year. There’s been multiple games with less than 10K.

 

[Red2003]

I suspect you’re still not really grasping what I’m saying.

Syracuse has an enormous basketball fan base. Well beyond any alumni count. There are highly avid SU hoops fans throughout NY state (and beyond) that have no direct tie to the university.

Many of these people (a) aren’t SU football fans (either at all or to the same degree), and (b) have a lot of money.

We have advantages in hoops that all but the biggest brands of the SEC and B1G can match. People who claim otherwise are trotting out the same cynical rationalizations they’ve used for football for 20 years.

Ok cool but are you reading the comments. Top 10 in fanbase great. I think alot of ACC schools are saying the same that they have a great hoops brand and while they don’t stink as much as us were about to be a 3 bid League.

From what I can telll we’re 50’s in NIL, middle of the pack ACC, failing facilities, not paying for coaching or staff.

These advantages in hoops aren’t what they used to be in the portal and nil era and for sure aren’t getting us anywhere the last 4 years.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Barely had enough workout equipment? There aren't that many players. When I hear stuff like this, I dont know why anyone gives them money. Either it's not true and they're never satisfied or they're spending the money on all the swing things.

Yeah, when Bulldog first mentioned this, I thought I must have misunderstood what he was saying. It just seemed so implausible. But then, how do you not have proper S&C and nutrition programs? It makes you wonder how very little money they must leave the AD's office, or how well it's being spent. I wonder how much goes to outside services like marketing companies?

 

[Fly Rodder]

Doesn’t the football team not only have treadmills but underwater treadmills?

 

[phil77]

Did I say mid majors? I said SEC and Bi1G and all the things you said they have and give more.

I’m telling you that’s not on the table competing with them.

Yet you sit here saying we can be more creative with NIL and fundraising.

Coaching coaching coaching. Pay for top-tier coaching and get a great coaching staff. Build a great culture. Install pro-style systems. Focus on player development. Specialized coaches access 24/7(shooting coach big man coach strength coach etc). Go all in on that stuff before other programs. Get a reputation for getting players drafted again. Get creative. Then when you get to the tournament who knows what will happen. But with great coaching and a great foundation of talent you will put yourself in the tournament 90 percent of the time and give yourself a chance and as a fan base that is all we can ask. Give us some well coached exciting basketball and players that fight on every possession on both ends of the court with passion.

 

[Scooch]

I have a nice iFit treadmill in my basement. Any SU player is welcome to use it.