Inside the Numbers - It's not even close

[TheCusian]

Cusian, are you really that clueless??? Miami of Ohio is the school that brags about being the stepping stone.

Minnesota isn't and never has been a stepping stone, not to other collegiate jobs and not to the NFL, either. Where did you get that idea? Because I said that Miami of Ohio is a stepping stone?

We KEEP our good fb coaches, our hockey coaches and our Bb coaches/managers. Although we did lose one hockey coach to the NHL, but only after his job with the 1980 US Olympic team garnered him an incredible amount of fame. As for bb? We've had all kinds, even some NBA HOF Coaches, one big cheater, a HOFer's son, some cbb hall of famers, etc..

Minnesota produced one of the best NBA coaches ever, two of the best NFL coaches ever, one of the best CFL coaches ever, possibly the best American born NHL coach ever, the best US Olympic hockey coaches, and some of the very best College football coaches EVER. They couldn't all coach at Minnesota. Bierman DID, and won FIVE Natl Titles, and it took a World War to stop his dynasty from continuing, and it surely would have. No college football program in the country lost more because of Pearl Harbor than the Univ of Minnesota. And Biggie Munn and Bud Wilkinson were already coaching elsewhere when Bierman retired. The timing wasn't right. And we hired first a future hall of famer, then a guy who brought us a Natl Title. And Minnesota hired lots of established coaches or future hall of famers back in the day, so those Gopher alums went elsewhere to get their starts in coaching, and were successful. It's not realistic to think that a school is only going to hire former alums, and in fact, some schools avoid doing so unless the situation is too good to pass up. A lot of it is based on timing.


But your desperately trying to turn this into a criticism is kind of lame. LOL, trying to make us out to be 2nd tier is laughable.
We haven't lost a decent coach to another college team since Lou Holtz, who had a ND clause in his contract, and good riddance to him anyway, I would have rather sucked, like we have, than to have had him and won like ND did. Mason basically came to Minnesota in an effort to either make or break his career. He could have made it into the HOF had he succeeded at UMn. He didn't. We didn't lose him to tOSU or anywhere else. UMn's a destination job. Not the #1 destination necessarily, I'm not deluded, but its a make or break place for people like Glen Mason and Jerry Kill. It broke Mason, so far it looks like it could make Jerry Kill, but its still too early to know, we thought the same of Mason after his first 3 years.

We lost ONE single hockey coach to the NHL, and only after he pulled off the greatest sports upset of the 20th century. We've had just TWO baseball coaches in the last 70-80 years?! First one is in the cBb HOF after winning 3 Natl Titles at Minnesota, the 2nd is still coaching and has the most wins in Big Ten Baseball history!

We had John Wooden basically hired as a bb coach, but a snowstorm prevented us from getting the call through to him, so he went with his 2nd choice, UCLA. It's in his book if you don't believe me.

We passed on Bobby Knight and got a coach that brought us a Big Ten title in his 2nd or 3rd season instead.

We hired a former SIX TIME PRO BB/NBA Title winning coach. We got Tubby Smith. A future HOF coach to come to Minnesota. We took a chance on a future HOF Coaches son. So far it seems to be working out.

We got the US Gold Medal winning Olympic coach to take the VB coaching job. We got his predecessor from a very successful Illinois program. We were and are a destination program in that sport as well. We've only had 2 or 3 wrestling coaches in the schools entire history, basically. We are a final destination.

Seems to me we're pretty well established to be FIRST RATE.

1. You are now attacking me - thought this has been fairly cordial. Oh, well.
2. You spent one post telling us how great Minny is because people went on from their and did great things at other schools. I noted that must kind of suck - since wouldn't it be better if they stayed or at worse - went on to a pro career?
3. You spent the next post saying that Minny is great because people stay and while it's not a destination school - it's done well at keeping it's coaches? Which is it? A place where great coaches coach or a place where great coaches leave to become great at Michigan?
4. As a part of your argument for greatness - you bring up being Wooden's 2nd choice and that you passed on coach Knight? That shows a pattern for ineptness. You hired and fired Tubby Smith? Way to go.
5. You've also established that you've been rebounding and rebuilding as a program for the last 5o years or something. So you've done a great job at keeping bad football coaches employed? Coach Kill is finally bringing you out of the dregs. Maybe.
6. You keep bringing up Baseball and Hockey. We don't have those sports and don't care about Minny in that regard. At all.
7. Seems to me you're pretty well established as a mediocre football school.

 

[CIL]

If this isn't the worst case of cherry picking I've ever seen, then I don't know what is?

But when your cfb team is only ranked the 50th best cfb program of all time(Billingsley), and you only have 1 Natl Title and have only breached the Top 4-5 in the rankings twice in your entire history, I guess you have to cherry pick in order to find a time period where you can kind of impress, eh?

It's easy to look better than Minnesota in fb if you are talking about any time period after 1967. EASY.

Except for the last 10-15 years. Syracuse has sucked during the last 10-15 years, and Minnesota hasn't been much to write home about either, we just haven't sucked as much as Syracuse has in that period.


Thing is, some of you Syracuse fans talk some major smack like you are all that? Syracuse, outside of Lacrosse and Basketball, really isn't much of anything at all. And even in basketball, you still are not "Elite", seeing as you only have one Natl Title. Minnesota has put more players into the NBA than Syracuse has. Whats up with that????

Don't believe me, go check. I did. UMn grads blow Syracuse grads away in the NBA!!!

I'm not trying to disrespect Syracuse, they've done incredibly well, minus the lack of multiple Natl Titles, in the Big Dance, you all should be proud and I'm not trying to argue that you shouldn't be, but its pretty hard to resist the temptation to slam Syracuse when so many of you all are doing nothing but disrespecting and slamming Minnesota. Why don't you try being more respectful?!

Suck a duck.

 

[RF2044]

Thing is, some of you Syracuse fans talk some major smack like you are all that? Syracuse, outside of Lacrosse and Basketball, really isn't much of anything at all. And even in basketball, you still are not "Elite", seeing as you only have one Natl Title. Minnesota has put more players into the NBA than Syracuse has. Whats up with that????

Don't believe me, go check. I did. UMn grads blow Syracuse grads away in the NBA!!!
!

That's a pretty dopey perspective, no matter what criteria is used to rationalize it.

Wow.

 

[bnoro]

If this isn't the worst case of cherry picking I've ever seen, then I don't know what is?

But when your cfb team is only ranked the 50th best cfb program of all time(Billingsley), and you only have 1 Natl Title and have only breached the Top 4-5 in the rankings twice in your entire history, I guess you have to cherry pick in order to find a time period where you can kind of impress, eh?

It's easy to look better than Minnesota in fb if you are talking about any time period after 1967. EASY.

Except for the last 10-15 years. Syracuse has sucked during the last 10-15 years, and Minnesota hasn't been much to write home about either, we just haven't sucked as much as Syracuse has in that period.


Thing is, some of you Syracuse fans talk some major smack like you are all that? Syracuse, outside of Lacrosse and Basketball, really isn't much of anything at all. And even in basketball, you still are not "Elite", seeing as you only have one Natl Title. Minnesota has put more players into the NBA than Syracuse has. Whats up with that????

Don't believe me, go check. I did. UMn grads blow Syracuse grads away in the NBA!!!

I'm not trying to disrespect Syracuse, they've done incredibly well, minus the lack of multiple Natl Titles, in the Big Dance, you all should be proud and I'm not trying to argue that you shouldn't be, but its pretty hard to resist the temptation to slam Syracuse when so many of you all are doing nothing but disrespecting and slamming Minnesota. Why don't you try being more respectful?!

Dude, go away.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

Problems telling the roosters from the hens? I didn't think there were city folk in Minnesota.

View attachment 6225

Bottom line is, Syracuse has far more wins than Minnesota in football, and a far better winning percentage. The same of course applies to basketball. In the sports that matter, Minnesota looks up to Syracuse, as it always has. Much respect for Minnesota, it did a great job producing future coaches in the 1920s and 1930s and back when the NBA was more like hockey in the late 1940s and early 1950s, there were a lot of former Golden Gophers skating around on NBA courts, throwing hip checks and shooting for the 5 hole.

FYI, Syracuse is ahead of Minnesota in the Capital One standings for best men's sports programs as well. Neither school is listed among the leaders for women's programs. And yes, our softball coach is prettier too.

Link

Bottom line is, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about!

Syracuse only has more wins than Minnesota in football because its played a softer schedule over its entire history, and when Minnesota was dominating, the Big Ten was not a big fan of its schools playing either bowl games, or a lot of out of conference games. Hence Minnesota winning Natl Titles with records of 8-0, 8-0, 7-1, 8-0, 8-0 & 7-1.

We played eventual conf champs and/or ranked teams in our few ooc games during those years, so our scedules were overloaded with nothing but conf and/or quality opponents.

We did that while other teams were playing 10 or more games a season, beating up on creampuffs.


Proof that Syracuse's MORE wins means diddly squat is the evidence...

UMn has produced TWICE AS MANY cfb Hall of Fame "players" 18 to 9.
UMn has won TEN Natl Titles to Syracuse's 3, or 6 recognized ones to SU's 1.
UMn has produced TWICE AS MANY cfb Walter Camp 1st team AAs as SU, 40 to 21.

UMn is ranked #16 All-Time in Billingsley's All-Time Program Rankings, compared to SU being ranked #50.



As for basketball? Sure, Syracuse has done much better than Minnesota over the years, but why? That's an interesting question, one that I know almost for a stone cold fact, no homer Syracuse bb fan wants to know the answer to. And why would I even dare to ask the question?

Because Minnesota has produced a lot more NBA players and successful ones, too. How is that possible?

But the completely and MOST totally HILARIOUS thing I've ever heard, is the part of your comment where you say that, concerning the sports that count, obviously you mean fb and bb, that "Minnesota looks up to Syracuse, as it always has"!

AS IT ALWAYS HAS??????


Minnesota IS still ahead of Syracuse in cfb. Minnesota has NEVER looked up to Syracuse in fb. Even in the last 50 years, as down as we've been, Michigan and Ohio State and maybe Penn St are the teams we look up to. NOT some middle of the pack program like Syracuse. We've met you on the field 4 times in the last 50 years and beaten you 3 of those 4 times. Sorry if that doesn't impress us. Syracuse is only somewhat better than Minnesota over that 50 year period. Hell, we look up to Wisconsin more than Syracuse! Syracuse is a decent program, don't get me wrong, and I hope the best for your school and program in the future. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you are being disrespectful and so I do have a right to try to defend my school, don't I?

And as far as bb is concerned. UMn started out college basketball history as the best program in the nation. Syracuse looked up at Minnesota back in ancient times. Minnesota won Natl Titles in 02 and 03 and again in 1919. So Syracuse didn't win their 2nd until 1926, so yeah, Syracuse looked up to Minnesota for a long time, probably all the way into the 80's after Boeheim and Danforth had some time to start to catch up.

As of 1982, Minnesota was ranked 21st in the # of AP poll appearances with 118, top position was #3, and Syracuse was 37th with 82, top position was #2. But Minnesota had several Top Ten seasons where they didn't get an NCAA invite because the #1 or #2 team in the country was from the Big Ten. Syracuse didn't pass UMn up in the # of AP poll appearances until 1986. So not sure how Syracuse got their invites, but Minnesota had to work harder than any other school out there basically, just to get into the tourney. Even as late as 1990, when Minnesota beat Syracuse in the tourney, UMn had a chance to pass up Syracuse, now that the Big Ten could get more than 1 team into the tourney, but Clem the Gem turned out to be Clem the Cheat and UMn went backwards and Syracuse moved forward. Good for you all and your team and your school. It sucked for Minnesota to deal with the aftermath of the Haskins scandal. But to ignorantly claim that Minnesota's always looked up to Syracuse in basketball is just an indication that you are probably a homer who doesn't really care either way what the truth is, you just want to talk some smack.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

That's a pretty dopey perspective, no matter what criteria is used to rationalize it.

Wow.

You got me, it probably isn't the best perspective or way to look at it. I'm not saying Syracuse bb sucks. But Syracuse fans seem to think Minnesota bb has never existed at all. The facts do not back that up.


Minnesota led Syracuse in # of Natl Titles in bb, 3 to 2, all the way up to 2003.

Minnesota has ALWAYS led Syracuse in the # of players sent to the NBA.

Minnesota led Syracuse in the # of AP poll appearances all the way up to 1986.

Minnesota played in a very tough and competitive Big Ten Conf, back when you could finish the season ranked in the Top 4-12 in the nation and not even get an invite to the Big Dance. Is that fair? I don't know, those were the rules, that's the way it was and I can't do anything about it now, but Syracuse fans could stop showing so much disrespect. I'm not asking Syracuse fans to say UMn is great in bb, because they are not. But they weren't nearly as bad as some of you make them out to be. I'm not asking Syracuse fans to say UMn is great in fb, because they are not. But Minnesota has a proud heritage in football, and honestly, Syracuse hasn't done enough since 1967 to have earned the right to disrespect Mn fb, and acknowledging that only strengthens Syracuse's place in the college sports world and makes you better people and fans. It doesn't take anything away from it or you.

 

[jekelish]

You all owe me a sh**load of brain cells that I've lost from reading this thread.

 

[Marsh01]

You all owe me a sh**load of brain cells that I've lost from reading this thread.

Cant believe this thread is still going

 

[TheCusian]

Bottom line is, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about! Syracuse only has more wins than Minnesota in football because its played a softer schedule over its entire history, and when Minnesota was dominating, the Big Ten was not a big fan of its schools playing either bowl games, or a lot of out of conference games. Hence Minnesota winning Natl Titles with records of 8-0, 8-0, 7-1, 8-0, 8-0 & 7-1. We played eventual conf champs and/or ranked teams in our few ooc games during those years, so our scedules were overloaded with nothing but conf and/or quality opponents. We did that while other teams were playing 10 or more games a season, beating up on creampuffs. Proof that Syracuse's MORE wins means diddly squat is the evidence... UMn has produced TWICE AS MANY cfb Hall of Fame "players" 18 to 9. UMn has won TEN Natl Titles to Syracuse's 3, or 6 recognized ones to SU's 1. UMn has produced TWICE AS MANY cfb Walter Camp 1st team AAs as SU, 40 to 21. UMn is ranked #16 All-Time in Billingsley's All-Time Program Rankings, compared to SU being ranked #50. As for basketball? Sure, Syracuse has done much better than Minnesota over the years, but why? That's an interesting question, one that I know almost for a stone cold fact, no homer Syracuse bb fan wants to know the answer to. And why would I even dare to ask the question? Because Minnesota has produced a lot more NBA players and successful ones, too. How is that possible? But the completely and MOST totally HILARIOUS thing I've ever heard, is the part of your comment where you say that, concerning the sports that count, obviously you mean fb and bb, that "Minnesota looks up to Syracuse, as it always has"! AS IT ALWAYS HAS?????? Minnesota IS still ahead of Syracuse in cfb. Minnesota has NEVER looked up to Syracuse in fb. Even in the last 50 years, as down as we've been, Michigan and Ohio State and maybe Penn St are the teams we look up to. NOT some middle of the pack program like Syracuse. We've met you on the field 4 times in the last 50 years and beaten you 3 of those 4 times. Sorry if that doesn't impress us. Syracuse is only somewhat better than Minnesota over that 50 year period. Hell, we look up to Wisconsin more than Syracuse! Syracuse is a decent program, don't get me wrong, and I hope the best for your school and program in the future. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you are being disrespectful and so I do have a right to try to defend my school, don't I? And as far as bb is concerned. UMn started out college basketball history as the best program in the nation. Syracuse looked up at Minnesota back in ancient times. Minnesota won Natl Titles in 02 and 03 and again in 1919. So Syracuse didn't win their 2nd until 1926, so yeah, Syracuse looked up to Minnesota for a long time, probably all the way into the 80's after Boeheim and Danforth had some time to start to catch up. As of 1982, Minnesota was ranked 21st in the # of AP poll appearances with 118, top position was #3, and Syracuse was 37th with 82, top position was #2. But Minnesota had several Top Ten seasons where they didn't get an NCAA invite because the #1 or #2 team in the country was from the Big Ten. Syracuse didn't pass UMn up in the # of AP poll appearances until 1986. So not sure how Syracuse got their invites, but Minnesota had to work harder than any other school out there basically, just to get into the tourney. Even as late as 1990, when Minnesota beat Syracuse in the tourney, UMn had a chance to pass up Syracuse, now that the Big Ten could get more than 1 team into the tourney, but Clem the Gem turned out to be Clem the Cheat and UMn went backwards and Syracuse moved forward. Good for you all and your team and your school. It sucked for Minnesota to deal with the aftermath of the Haskins scandal. But to ignorantly claim that Minnesota's always looked up to Syracuse in basketball is just an indication that you are probably a homer who doesn't really care either way what the truth is, you just want to talk some smack.

Horse manure. Every bit of it.

More NBA players*.
More championships*.
More C HoF*.

* Almost all in the pre-TV era.

 

[OrangeSky]

There's lots of interesting discussion here, but I still just can't get past the invented cheerleading thing...

 

[dasher]

You got me, it probably isn't the best perspective or way to look at it. I'm not saying Syracuse bb sucks. But Syracuse fans seem to think Minnesota bb has never existed at all. The facts do not back that up.


Minnesota led Syracuse in # of Natl Titles in bb, 3 to 2, all the way up to 2003.

Minnesota has ALWAYS led Syracuse in the # of players sent to the NBA.

Minnesota led Syracuse in the # of AP poll appearances all the way up to 1986.

Minnesota played in a very tough and competitive Big Ten Conf, back when you could finish the season ranked in the Top 4-12 in the nation and not even get an invite to the Big Dance. Is that fair? I don't know, those were the rules, that's the way it was and I can't do anything about it now, but Syracuse fans could stop showing so much disrespect. I'm not asking Syracuse fans to say UMn is great in bb, because they are not. But they weren't nearly as bad as some of you make them out to be. I'm not asking Syracuse fans to say UMn is great in fb, because they are not. But Minnesota has a proud heritage in football, and honestly, Syracuse hasn't done enough since 1967 to have earned the right to disrespect Mn fb, and acknowledging that only strengthens Syracuse's place in the college sports world and makes you better people and fans. It doesn't take anything away from it or you.

My friend, there is no comparison between Syracuse basketball and Minn basketball and no one in and around college basketball would make that claim. We have the best league record in the history of the Big East basketball. And by a lot. That is something when you consider that the Big East was the best conference in the country since it's inception in 1979-80. In the last 5 years we have won about 150 games or 30 a year. Minn. in your entire history has never won 30 games in any 1 season. We have done it 3 times in the last 5 years.

 

[rrlbees]

Horse manure. Every bit of it. More NBA players*. More championships*. More C HoF*. * Almost all in the pre-TV era.

Most NBA draft picks and most NBA players.

Last 5 years SU
Last 10 years SU
Last 15 years SU
Last 25 years SU
Last 100 years MinnyHaHa

Interpret as you choose.

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[jekelish]

Minnesota is like the anti-UConn, in a way. UConn fans think that college sports started around 1990, whereas Minnesota fans seem to be under the impression that everything of importance happened before 1980. Maybe even 1970.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

Kevin McHale, Lou Hudson, Mychal Thompson, Ray Williams & Archie Clark, not a bad Starting 5.

70,000+ pts scored by them combined in the NBA. Can Syracuse match that?? LOL

 

[jekelish]

Dave Bing, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Coleman, Rony Seikaly, Sherman Douglas. 68,104 points, and Melo is obviously still going strong and will probably score 10-12000 more points in his career, pushing them past 80,000 as a group.

I'll take my five over your five every day of the week, thanks. Three of them were in the same starting lineup, by the way.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

Minnesota is like the anti-UConn, in a way. UConn fans think that college sports started around 1990, whereas Minnesota fans seem to be under the impression that everything of importance happened before 1980. Maybe even 1970.

Too funny. But totally inaccurate. UConn is a one sport school.


Minnesota has ALWAYS had at least one team kicking tail in college sports.
If not its football team, then its baseball team or hockey team, or wrestling team, or golf team or track team, and sometimes more than one of them at the same time. There is absolutely no comparison at all.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

Dave Bing, Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Coleman, Rony Seikaly, Sherman Douglas. 68,104 points, and Melo is obviously still going strong and will probably score 10-12000 more points in his career, pushing them past 80,000 as a group.

I'll take my five over your five every day of the week, thanks. Three of them were in the same starting lineup, by the way.

Oh sure you would, because your a HOMER.

LOL.


Want to tell me who your bench would be? lol


Syracuse has just 5 guys with at least 11 years in the NBA. Minnesota has TWICE AS MANY.

 

[BomberOrange]

Okay so MN has some FB history thats pretty decent and their BB team was great in the 1900's. Its all good and I respect that. But who gives a damn about your golf team, WNBA players, volleyball, or dance teams? If SU's field hockey team reaches another final four I will acknowledge, be happy, and move on. I dont think i will ever have a conversation about it unless I meet a player or parent. Seriously, our lacrosse and your hockey barely matter and those are both our best. Its football, basketball and nothing else as far as relevancy.

 

[jekelish]

Oh sure you would, because your a HOMER.

LOL.


Want to tell me who your bench would be? lol


Syracuse has just 5 guys with at least 11 years in the NBA. Minnesota has TWICE AS MANY.

Or because my 5 are, you know, GOOD. One of them was voted as one of the top 50 players in NBA history, after all. And yes, I know McHale was as well, but just putting that in there since you seem to be writing off our players for some bizarre reason.

You're just a flat out idiot if you actually think Minnesota comes close to comparing to Syracuse in basketball. Absolutely clueless. You people aren't even on the same level as SU basketball. You're peons.

 

[rrlbees]

Oh sure you would, because your a HOMER. LOL. Want to tell me who your bench would be? lol Syracuse has just 5 guys with at least 11 years in the NBA. Minnesota has TWICE AS MANY.

You realize you've lost the argument twice now but you keep changing the parameters. Hoping to find one that sticks?

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[RF2044]

I tried explaining to you guys in the other thread how delusional / trifling gopher fans can be.

Hopefully, this thread provides insight into what I was describing. Oh Lord

 

[DynstyUgrl]

Or because my 5 are, you know, GOOD. One of them was voted as one of the top 50 players in NBA history, after all. And yes, I know McHale was as well, but just putting that in there since you seem to be writing off our players for some bizarre reason.

You're just a flat out idiot if you actually think Minnesota comes close to comparing to Syracuse in basketball. Absolutely clueless. You people aren't even on the same level as SU basketball. You're peons.

I'm not writing off any of Syracuse's players. Just putting things into perspective. YOU are the ones writing off all of Gopher bb history as completely and totally irrelevant and practically non-existent.

And I'll Take Gopher alum John Kundla as our coach. He was one of the Coaches named at the same time as that Top 50 player list came out. Something about his 6 NBA Titles?

 

[jekelish]

I'm not writing off any of Syracuse's players. Just putting things into perspective. YOU are the ones writing off all of Gopher bb history as completely and totally irrelevant and practically non-existent.

And I'll Take Gopher alum John Kundla as our coach. He was one of the Coaches named at the same time as that Top 50 player list came out. Something about his 6 NBA Titles?

And I'll take Jimmy B over any coach you could possibly throw out. You don't win more than 900 games by accident, after all. But he's just a Hall of Famer, that probably doesn't qualify him thanks to whatever new wrinkle you're going to throw out "Oh, but he never howled at a full moon on the third Tuesday of August, and our guy did!"

 

[DynstyUgrl]

You realize you've lost the argument twice now but you keep changing the parameters. Hoping to find one that sticks?

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How did I lose? 70,000 is better than 66,000.

No guarantee Melo will play another game. Lots of players and coaches in the past have had their careers cut short, including several Gophers. It's not fair or unfair, its just reality.

 

[DynstyUgrl]

And I'll take Jimmy B over any coach you could possibly throw out. You don't win more than 900 games by accident, after all. But he's just a Hall of Famer, that probably doesn't qualify him thanks to whatever new wrinkle you're going to throw out "Oh, but he never howled at a full moon on the third Tuesday of August, and our guy did!"

900 games? That's not bad. HOF? Not bad either. Did you think John Kundla wasn't a HOFer?!