Is the proverbial shoe about to drop on college basketball royalty?

[djcon57]

I seriously don't know, so I have to ask. Was he a OAD or did he decide to leave after his first year? There's a difference in my mind. The OADs like uke and Kentucky have come into the program with everyone involved knowing up front that the players are leaving when the season is over. Justin Anderson, for us, left after his third year, but that was in response to the circumstances that developed as the season progressed rather than any notion of "I'm only staying 3 years and then I'm gone."

It was 15 years ago. One and done wasn't necessarily a thing.

I'd argue Oden and Durant were probably the first true one and dones

 

[orangecuse]

It was 15 years ago. One and done wasn't necessarily a thing.

I'd argue Oden and Durant were probably the first true one and dones

It wasn't a thing. Lebron and Amarie Stoudemarie and Carmelo were all in the same prep class...the respective two went directly to the NBA out of high school...Melo chose college.

 

[Alsacs]

I seriously don't know, so I have to ask. Was he a OAD or did he decide to leave after his first year? There's a difference in my mind. The OADs like uke and Kentucky have come into the program with everyone involved knowing up front that the players are leaving when the season is over. Justin Anderson, for us, left after his third year, but that was in response to the circumstances that developed as the season progressed rather than any notion of "I'm only staying 3 years and then I'm gone."

Carmelo was the #2 recruit in the country behind A'mare Stoudemire who went straight to the NBA.

He was gone. He barely got a 2.0 GPA his first semester to keep himself eligible. It cost him a nomination for the Wooden Award.

Carmelo was smart though and was a great teammate. He didn't say he was OAD but everyone knew it.

 

[AZOrange]

Somehow you find a way. I could go into detail, but I don't want to.

Yeah I was being facetious

 

[AZOrange]

The market.

Who sets the value on the players? It's obviously more than whatever they're offered above the table.

The agents aren’t paying players because of their collegiate value. You know that.

 

[AZOrange]

excited to the same people in this thread angry about the possibility of paying players get mad at Battle leaving this year.

I’d say those people are as absurd as those proposing to open floodgates paying players in college. Battle should leave if he thinks he can get paid. I would.

 

[Alsacs]

The agents aren’t paying players because of their collegiate value. You know that.

So no coaches are paying for players?
What is bringing down Sean Miller then?

Agents are different from coaches. We all know agents are dirty but don't think coaches aren't paying as well.

 

[RF2044]

I seriously don't know, so I have to ask. Was he a OAD or did he decide to leave after his first year? There's a difference in my mind. The OADs like uke and Kentucky have come into the program with everyone involved knowing up front that the players are leaving when the season is over. Justin Anderson, for us, left after his third year, but that was in response to the circumstances that developed as the season progressed rather than any notion of "I'm only staying 3 years and then I'm gone."

Carmelo wasn't considered a one-and-done. When he originally committed [fairly early], he was a 6-6 190 pound wing, who was highly rated / top 35-ish, but not necessarily a top of the class type of blue chip prospect. He rose up the ratings substantially with his performance in camps the summer prior to his senior season, and then went to Oak Hill. By the time he arrived on campus, he was over 6-8 and about 225 -- almost a completely different player than the one we originally recruited.

I don't think the plan coming in was for him to be one-and-done. In fact, it was reported back then that his mother worked as a janitor at UMBC so that her son would have the option to go to school there for free [this was prior to his basketball ascendance, which obviously rendered that unnecessary]. I think she was actually a little miffed--at least initially--when he decided to make the jump. But obviously he did the right thing.

 

[doc05]

By the time Melo arrived on campus even before that first Memphis game, I'd bet most people figured he was gone after his first year. I know I did.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The agents aren’t paying players because of their collegiate value. You know that.

So no coaches are paying for players?
What is bringing down Sean Miller then?

Agents are different from coaches. We all know agents are dirty but don't think coaches aren't paying as well.

Yeah, I don't think Dennis Smith Jr. just got a small loan, just like I don't think that Deandre Ayton got $100k and that was it. These players are getting a total package from a number of different people with various, and probably competing, interests. Take $10k from Agent A, $35k from Agent B, Mom gets a new job offer from a booster near campus, an AAU coach gets $5k to steer a player to one campus and $6k from another to steer him to a different campus, $25k in sneaker money through a third party, a car lease from a different booster.

 

[leftytg]

Foolish sentiments I see repeated time and again in this thread/debate:
1) stop claiming the players are getting a $70k/year benefit in the form of the scholarship. It is absolute foolishness to use the sticker price of college tuition at face value. Nobody - NOBODY - pays full sticker price for tuition. It is intentionally inflated and bears little resemblance to the cost incurred by the school (as evidenced by the education bubble we find ourselves in, which will one day pop - but that is a different thread). Stop acting like the school is out $70k/year because a basketball player accepted a scholarship. These slots are fungible, as there is no absolute, hard upper limit on enrolled students. In other words, Syracuse giving out 13 basketball scholarships does not mean they are accepting 13 fewer students or enrolling 13 fewer students. There is almost zero marginal cost to the school for admitting the scholarship athletes (and the money spent on practice facilities, special dorms, cafeterias, etc are for the purposes of attracting talent and boosting performance, not out of necessity.)

2) stop comparing this to an academic scholarship. I had a full academic scholarship too. Whoop de do. All it meant was that I had to maintain a certain minimum GPA and it got renewed. I was a very good high school student and schools competed in the form of scholarship/aid packages to entice me to enroll. Once enrolled, I simply pursued my academic pursuits. I don't think people realize just how much a grind and time suck it is for high level athletes. This is especially true in football, but their time is micromanaged and their commitments to the team are demanding. It is absolutely true that players are directed away from certain majors - not just because they may be demanding, but some majors have specific classes/labs with few sections that only meet during specific times, which conflict with practice or film study or weight lifting. These players are expected to perform at the absolute highest levels and their commitment is expected to be extremely high. There are coaches with their jobs on the line, assistant coaches who all want to advance in their careers, and training staff acting under the pressures of the coaches all pushing these kids in their sport. A guy with an academic scholarship had nowhere near the demands and expectations of an athlete with an athletic scholarship.

 

[cuse10]

But but but how did you live? And eat? And drink? And buy clothes?

Because he likely had parents who helped him get by. Half of these kids don't come from that situation. For some, athletics is literally putting food on the table. It's why a Lenny Cooke took money from the crooked agent and drug dealers growing up just so he could have sneakers to wear and put food on the table.

This goes beyond an "education". As I stated earlier in this thread, many of the reasons that people are opposed to compensation is racial. D1 football and basketball rosters are mostly black. There's some notion among the detractors that giving them money will somehow make them lazy and kill the game because they're not in it "for the love". Newsflash, once you start playing for high level programs, it is no longer about "fun" once you get to high school. Not getting proper compensation isn't new for us. We're still waiting on our 40 acres.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Foolish sentiments I see repeated time and again in this thread/debate:
1) stop claiming the players are getting a $70k/year benefit in the form of the scholarship. It is absolute foolishness to use the sticker price of college tuition at face value. Nobody - NOBODY - pays full sticker price for tuition. It is intentionally inflated and bears little resemblance to the cost incurred by the school (as evidenced by the education bubble we find ourselves in, which will one day pop - but that is a different thread). Stop acting like the school is out $70k/year because a basketball player accepted a scholarship. These slots are fungible, as there is no absolute, hard upper limit on enrolled students. In other words, Syracuse giving out 13 basketball scholarships does not mean they are accepting 13 fewer students or enrolling 13 fewer students. There is almost zero marginal cost to the school for admitting the scholarship athletes (and the money spent on practice facilities, special dorms, cafeterias, etc are for the purposes of attracting talent and boosting performance, not out of necessity.)

2) stop comparing this to an academic scholarship. I had a full academic scholarship too. Whoop de do. All it meant was that I had to maintain a certain minimum GPA and it got renewed. I was a very good high school student and schools competed in the form of scholarship/aid packages to entice me to enroll. Once enrolled, I simply pursued my academic pursuits. I don't think people realize just how much a grind and time suck it is for high level athletes. This is especially true in football, but their time is micromanaged and their commitments to the team are demanding. It is absolutely true that players are directed away from certain majors - not just because they may be demanding, but some majors have specific classes/labs with few sections that only meet during specific times, which conflict with practice or film study or weight lifting. These players are expected to perform at the absolute highest levels and their commitment is expected to be extremely high. There are coaches with their jobs on the line, assistant coaches who all want to advance in their careers, and training staff acting under the pressures of the coaches all pushing these kids in their sport. A guy with an academic scholarship had nowhere near the demands and expectations of an athlete with an athletic scholarship.

1) Even if everything you say is correct, and I think it is, the fact still remains that a full ride scholarship represents a significant (and tangible) value to whomever receives it.

2) Basketball players know full well what if expected of them when they agree to attend college. If they want payment other than that tangible benefit of 1), then they should just go pro.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Not getting proper compensation isn't new for us. We're still waiting on our 40 acres.

College sports, with all its faults, is about amateurs. These kids understand exactly what they are getting into and they choose it anyway. If they want to get paid, they should go pro. Otherwise, they can stay four years and get their degree.

 

[bevosu]

Because he likely had parents who helped him get by. Half of these kids don't come from that situation. .

Not the case...if you read my post. My father was the breadwinner. He passed away when I was a teenager...before I went to SU. I worked part time while I was at SU. Full time in the summer. No help from anyone.

Look I'm not complaining about underprivileged kids getting an athletic scholarship. I'm all for it..along with room and board...and yes with their schedules they deserve some spending money. I'm just saying that anytime you can get a free ride to attend college it's not something to disparage. Treasure it.

And if you aren't interested in the academic side of college you probably shouldn't be there.

 

[Fly Rodder]

1), then they should just go pro.

They can't. That's the point. They can't go to the G-league out of HS and get drafted until the following year anyway. So they're limited to at least one year at ~$35k and no chance at an NBA roster. Their option is to go to college and (obviously) get paid more than a G-league salary under the table with some benefits, or try and go overseas and deal with a whole rash of issues (e.g., very limited roster spots, lack of a support structure, sketchy contracts, language barrier, hazing, etc.). Just because there is some semblance of a choice, doesn't make it a real choice, nor does it allow for unfair treatment simply due to the system that is in place.

 

[TinyManInside]

It wasn't a thing. Lebron and Amarie Stoudemarie and Carmelo were all in the same prep class...the respective two went directly to the NBA out of high school...Melo chose college.

Melo and LeBron weren't in the same class. Melo was a FR when LeBron was a SR in high school.

 

[Fly Rodder]

And if you aren't interested in the academic side of college you probably shouldn't be there.

Then lets pull revenue sports out of the mission of universities. People can write that it's not a minor league system until they're blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that it is.

Otherwise, there wouldn't be these huge issues with college athletes in basketball and football being paid.

 

[TinyManInside]

There was *ZERO* thought within the basketball program that Melo would stay for more than one season. I know that the staff said he at least considered staying for a second year (and I believe them, he genuinely loved playing at SU from everything I have heard), but they knew from the day he stepped foot on campus that he would be a lottery pick in the next draft.

 

[SoBeCuse]

There was *ZERO* thought within the basketball program that Melo would stay for more than one season. I know that the staff said he at least considered staying for a second year (and I believe them, he genuinely loved playing at SU from everything I have heard), but they knew from the day he stepped foot on campus that he would be a lottery pick in the next draft.

Probably the same with McCullough? Granted we barely knew him, but, how good do you think he would’ve been here with another year? He seemed like a decent shooter with some length but he seemed to be a little flat/lackluster of a player. Real finesse. He was a very good but not great/elite athlete, IMO. I don’t know. He would’ve helped but he wasn’t that good, IMO.

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah, I don't think Dennis Smith Jr. just got a small loan, just like I don't think that Deandre Ayton got $100k and that was it. These players are getting a total package from a number of different people with various, and probably competing, interests. Take $10k from Agent A, $35k from Agent B, Mom gets a new job offer from a booster near campus, an AAU coach gets $5k to steer a player to one campus and $6k from another to steer him to a different campus, $25k in sneaker money through a third party, a car lease from a different booster.

Right which is where “bad loans” comes from

 

[AZOrange]

There was *ZERO* thought within the basketball program that Melo would stay for more than one season. I know that the staff said he at least considered staying for a second year (and I believe them, he genuinely loved playing at SU from everything I have heard), but they knew from the day he stepped foot on campus that he would be a lottery pick in the next draft.

I had a couple good friends close to the program then and they said after first workout JB told staff member that Melo would be the best player he ever coached by a long shot.

 

[AZOrange]

Because he likely had parents who helped him get by. Half of these kids don't come from that situation. For some, athletics is literally putting food on the table. It's why a Lenny Cooke took money from the crooked agent and drug dealers growing up just so he could have sneakers to wear and put food on the table.

This goes beyond an "education". As I stated earlier in this thread, many of the reasons that people are opposed to compensation is racial. D1 football and basketball rosters are mostly black. There's some notion among the detractors that giving them money will somehow make them lazy and kill the game because they're not in it "for the love". Newsflash, once you start playing for high level programs, it is no longer about "fun" once you get to high school. Not getting proper compensation isn't new for us. We're still waiting on our 40 acres.

Look, everyone has different perspectives on this but the last thing I think this is about is racism.

 

[pfister1]

If the players are laboring for something, how is it a gift? And if you can't sell it or transfer it, what is its value? Additionally, that car can be sold for $6k to one person, $18k to another and free to a third. Not all students pay full freight. The actual cost of attendance changes based on a number of different variables and admissions changes the cost to whatever they need to get the A) the most revenue and B) the most qualified students in the door.

Basically what the schools are doing is the same if your company earned $100k per employee, keep $50k for the office manager, and then they charge you $30k for letting you gain experience and $20k for the cubicle. If the scholarship should be all the compensation required, then why are schools/coaches arranging for payment and players opting to bolt to the NBA at the first opportunity?

Because we’ve allowed college sports to be about athletes that have no real interest in obtaining a college degree or at least that is no longer their primary purpose for being in SCHOOL.

 

[jgeorge322]

Look, everyone has different perspectives on this but the last thing I think this is about is racism.

I love the racism angle when the rules come from the nba and nfl. The nba owners want it to avoid paying huge dollars for high schoolers who dont pan out. Its like any large corporation hiring an exec based on how they did in college. Its ok to want a little more evidence.

Ive always been a bit confused by nbapa over this issue. More unproven young kids on nba rosters, the less room for experienced vets.