Is there anyone left... ? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Is there anyone left... ?

He should be fired by Sunday night.

The game ain't what it used to be. There's no reason a program has to slog through bad years with a new coach while he rebuilds. If he's at all a competent recruiter he can use the portal and quickly restock talent to replace the guys who are going to portal out. Plus the schedule next year is cake. A decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season if he finds a new QB.
The Portal does change the dynamic, I’m not optimistic though.
 
The game ain't what it used to be. There's no reason a program has to slog through bad years with a new coach while he rebuilds. If he's at all a competent recruiter he can use the portal and quickly restock talent to replace the guys who are going to portal out. Plus the schedule next year is cake. A decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season if he finds a new QB.


You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.
 
You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.
You’re right, let’s not bother. Babers 4 life!

1) A good recruiter, which Dino is not, will have more success in the portal.

2) My reference to 6-6 was regarding a floor of year 1 of a new hire, not his ceiling. We know the ceiling of Dino is 7 wins.

3) Money is just that, money. We either spend it, or we don’t. If we don’t, then we go get a cheaper coach.
 
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I’ll be curious if we start to hear rumbles this week

I would have thought we would have heard them by now. So many other schools make these decisions quickly and immediately. They don't wait until the end of the season or even end of the week. We're not strong enough as an administration to take that bold step IMHO.
 
You’re right, let’s not bother.

Babers 4 life!

Is that what I said? No, it's not.

I asked, "So is 6-6 is acceptable?" Note the question mark. But rather than provide an answer you provided a BS response typical of a guy on a fan forum. My mistake for hoping for more.
 
You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.
The effort to close out the 2023 HS recruiting class was abysmal. That was a contributor in having to chase after obscure JUCO's late in the game as well to fill out the roster. And that performance with the HS recruits last year is squarely on Dino and his staff.
 
What's the worst case scenario here? Our guy right now has just above a 40% winning percentage overall and under 30% in conference in 8 years.

I'm not sure why we're even debating anything at this point.
Bingo. Dino’s record is atrocious. Anyone pushing back against the details is just being obstinate for sake of being obstinate. Make a change, see what happens. If it doesn’t work, try again.
 
Bingo. Dino’s record is atrocious. Anyone pushing back against the details is just being obstinate for sake of being obstinate. Make a change, see what happens. If it doesn’t work, try again.
Yes. It's just not that big a deal. They get paid a lot to win. If the other guy's worse ,oh well, get rid of him. It's actually refreshing that very few people are worried about it
 
Not every question has an answer. It is easy to underestimate how bad our situation is and how little we can do to change it. My recommendation is to hire a big name former player regardless of how much experience he has. Our primary goal is to attract higher rated recruits. Assistant coaches can handle the X's and O's. It all starts with recruiting. We are a safety school if all else fails. That has to change.
 
Yes. It's just not that big a deal. They get paid a lot to win. If the other guy's worse ,oh well, get rid of him. It's actually refreshing that very few people are worried about it
Agreed. And the key is to not be precious and hang on too long. We did that with Shafer — it was obvious he was never going to be particularly good, so can him and move on.

COVID complicated things, but there was plenty of reasons to dump Dino after 2021. Personally that’s when I was thoroughly convinced he was a lousy coach.

Although I know we would have missed out on the legendary 7-6 season that we’ll sing songs about years from now.
 
Yes. It's just not that big a deal. They get paid a lot to win. If the other guy's worse ,oh well, get rid of him. It's actually refreshing that very few people are worried about it
The anxiety makes no sense to me at this point. What's the worse that can happen? We already had 4 years of GRob. There isn't much lower that you can go than that.
 
Agreed. And the key is to not be precious and hang on too long. We did that with Shafer — it was obvious he was never going to be particularly good, so can him and move on.

COVID complicated things, but there was plenty of reasons to dump Dino after 2021. Personally that’s when I was thoroughly convinced he was a lousy coach.

Although I know we would have missed out on the legendary 7-6 season that we’ll sing songs about years from now.
Yeah 7-6, beating a Schiano OOC schedule and getting curbstomped by any quality team on our schedule is our new Apex.

Ugh.
 
Yeah 7-6, beating a Schiano OOC schedule and getting curbstomped by any quality team on our schedule is our new Apex.

Ugh.
Back in the Shafer era I did a bit of study of “middle class” programs who were in the top 25. Basically, what we aspire to be.

The results were remarkably clear. With few exceptions, those programs had coaches who had meaningful success by year 3. That meant 8-ish wins and good bowl games. There were a few outliers who took longer, but not many. If a coach wasn’t doing well in year three, they’d likely be fired by year 5.

And that was in 2015. With the way the portal and NIL has changed the game, there’s no need to brace ourselves for a 4 or 5 year painful rebuilding process.

No one should be clinging to Dino’s thorough mediocrity because of some weird fear of the future.
 
You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.

If you want the king cab then finance it. That's the American way. Once you’re dead none of it matters but at least you enjoyed the ride.
 
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I would have thought we would have heard them by now. So many other schools make these decisions quickly and immediately. They don't wait until the end of the season or even end of the week. We're not strong enough as an administration to take that bold step IMHO.

If a move is going to happen, it could happen at any time depending on how well the administration is prepared for the ensuing chaos that goes along with finding a replacement, securing assistant coaches, preventing a mass exodus, and securing new talent from the portal (Dec. 4, 2023, to Jan. 3, of 2024).

When rumblings start,
  • Assistant coaches start looking to secure employment elsewhere.
    • They don't work as hard on gameplans (not enough time to look for a job and gameplan).
    • They're not very concerned about keeping the roster together for the next coach.
    • They're not very concerned with locking up the current recruiting class.
  • Players start looking to transfer and today they have more flexibility than ever before.
    • Other programs will begin attempting to poach players currently on our roster. (it's already happening).
Chaos...
 
The effort to close out the 2023 HS recruiting class was abysmal. That was a contributor in having to chase after obscure JUCO's late in the game as well to fill out the roster. And that performance with the HS recruits last year is squarely on Dino and his staff.


LOL... We did not go after JC players because we lost out on HS recruits. JC recruits are expected to contribute immediately or at least soon while HS recruits are generally given some time to develop.

We went after Reed because we had an immediate need at center that no HS recruit was going to fill. The other JC offensive lineman has not played and will redshirt to give him more time to develop.

We went after two JC running backs due to uncertainty of LQA's future at Syracuse. No high school recruit was going to be ready if need the way the coaches thought these JC guys were.

The two DB's we brought in from Santa Barbara CC were brought in to add athletic depth to our special teams. They were not expected to compete for playing time in the secondary immediately. One of them left when he was told they needed him on special teams and they did not want him to redshirt, which is what he wanted to do. No high school recruit was going to be ready to provide the depth we needed on special teams without time to develop.


As for the abysmal effort to close out the 2023 class, Syracuse only had two decommits. Wish we had been able to keep both of them, but this is consistent with the chaos that ensues when coaches move around.
  • QB LaNorris Sellers decommited and went to So Carolina.
    • Anae left for NC State on Dec 9th, Sellers decommitted on Dec 23.
    • Sellers has only played 11 snaps this season (vs Furman).
  • DL Vincent Carroll-Jackson decommited and went to Nebraska.
    • Did he flip because Coach White left or was that just a coincidence that they both ended up at Nebraska? White to Nebraska, Dec 8. VCJ decommit on Dec 21.
    • Carroll-Jackson has not played this season.
Syracuse did not pick up a JC transfer to compensate for either of those decommits.
  • QB Davis transferred from So Carolina to Syracuse in May. Not a HS recruit.
  • All of the DL commits we signed from HS in 2023 and the transfer Ingraham were committed to Syracuse before VCJ decommitted on Dec 21.
    • Rashard Perry committed on April 9.
    • Jalil Smith committed on June 24.
    • Ty Gordon committed on Dec 17.
    • Omopariola committed on Dec 18. Listed as DL in recruiting, but is playing LB.
I think the need to pick up JC recruits is more of a reflection on previous years recruiting classes than on the 2023 class. Our recruiting has not been sufficient to compete in the ACC.
 
LOL... We did not go after JC players because we lost out on HS recruits. JC recruits are expected to contribute immediately or at least soon while HS recruits are generally given some time to develop.

We went after Reed because we had an immediate need at center that no HS recruit was going to fill. The other JC offensive lineman has not played and will redshirt to give him more time to develop.

We went after two JC running backs due to uncertainty of LQA's future at Syracuse. No high school recruit was going to be ready if need the way the coaches thought these JC guys were.

The two DB's we brought in from Santa Barbara CC were brought in to add athletic depth to our special teams. They were not expected to compete for playing time in the secondary immediately. One of them left when he was told they needed him on special teams and they did not want him to redshirt, which is what he wanted to do. No high school recruit was going to be ready to provide the depth we needed on special teams without time to develop.


As for the abysmal effort to close out the 2023 class, Syracuse only had two decommits. Wish we had been able to keep both of them, but this is consistent with the chaos that ensues when coaches move around.
  • QB LaNorris Sellers decommited and went to So Carolina.
    • Anae left for NC State on Dec 9th, Sellers decommitted on Dec 23.
    • Sellers has only played 11 snaps this season (vs Furman).
  • DL Vincent Carroll-Jackson decommited and went to Nebraska.
    • Did he flip because Coach White left or was that just a coincidence that they both ended up at Nebraska? White to Nebraska, Dec 8. VCJ decommit on Dec 21.
    • Carroll-Jackson has not played this season.
Syracuse did not pick up a JC transfer to compensate for either of those decommits.
  • QB Davis transferred from So Carolina to Syracuse in May. Not a HS recruit.
  • All of the DL commits we signed from HS in 2023 and the transfer Ingraham were committed to Syracuse before VCJ decommitted on Dec 21.
    • Rashard Perry committed on April 9.
    • Jalil Smith committed on June 24.
    • Ty Gordon committed on Dec 17.
    • Omopariola committed on Dec 18. Listed as DL in recruiting, but is playing LB.
I think the need to pick up JC recruits is more of a reflection on previous years recruiting classes than on the 2023 class. Our recruiting has not been sufficient to compete in the ACC.
Historically when we've missed out on HS recruits and signing day is over we'd magically add 1-3 JUCO's to the open spots post signing day. That's not a new thing. You do that so you don't permanently mess up your class mix.

I'm not talking about J'onre Reed who was signed before the traditional signing day. I'm talking about the motley crew of JUCO signees post signing day that came out of nowhere with little to no interest from other legit programs. You add guys like that because you either were A) Planning on filling the slots with HS kids and whiffed or B) planning on filling the spots with portal kids and whiffed. And neither you or I know what the mix was there. But I know for a fact we whiffed on at least 2 HS kids that decommitted and I suspect there were more that we just flat out lost out on that weren't verballed here.

So back to my original point, yes, the way we finished out the HS class was abysmal. It was already a weak class and we lost our 2 most heavily recruited prospects right before signing day.
 
Historically when we've missed out on HS recruits and signing day is over we'd magically add 1-3 JUCO's to the open spots post signing day. That's not a new thing. You do that so you don't permanently mess up your class mix.

I'm not talking about J'onre Reed who was signed before the traditional signing day. I'm talking about the cast of characters post signing day that came out of nowhere with little to no interest from other legit programs. You add guys like that because you either were A) Planning on filling the slots with HS kids and whiffed or B) planning on filling the spots with portal kids and whiffed. And neither you or I know what the mix was there. But I know for a fact we whiffed on at least 2 HS kids that decommitted and I suspect there were more that we just flat out lost out on that weren't verballed here.

I understand how it works. I've been around college football for more than 40 years including several years coaching and playing in junior college.
 
You’re right, let’s not bother. Babers 4 life!

1) A good recruiter, which Dino is not, will have more success in the portal.

2) My reference to 6-6 was regarding a floor of year 1 of a new hire, not his ceiling. We know the ceiling of Dino is 7 wins.

3) Money is just that, money. We either spend it, or we don’t. If we don’t, then we go get a cheaper coach.
There is a lot of competition for kids in the portal. It’s no sure thing that a new coach will be able to bring in starting level talent.
 
There is a lot of competition for kids in the portal. It’s no sure thing that a new coach will be able to bring in starting level talent.
You have to be strategic about it. The assistants you hire and where they are coming from can have the largest impact on inbound portal transfers. We saw that with Travis Fisher here.

You hire a strong recruiter that brought a lot of prospects to a program and you probably will be able to poach some of them. Major head start to portal recruiting.
 
You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.
Sounds like the typical Syracuse resident haha.
 

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