Is there anyone left... ? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Is there anyone left... ?

Back in the Shafer era I did a bit of study of “middle class” programs who were in the top 25. Basically, what we aspire to be.

The results were remarkably clear. With few exceptions, those programs had coaches who had meaningful success by year 3. That meant 8-ish wins and good bowl games. There were a few outliers who took longer, but not many. If a coach wasn’t doing well in year three, they’d likely be fired by year 5.

And that was in 2015. With the way the portal and NIL has changed the game, there’s no need to brace ourselves for a 4 or 5 year painful rebuilding process.

No one should be clinging to Dino’s thorough mediocrity because of some weird fear of the future.
When you look at people who are still somewhat defending him, it's largely just a bag of excuses about how hard it is to be a HC at Syracuse. When you call them out on his teams being turnover and sack machines, and his horrendous in game coaching decisions...you immediately get crickets and a change of topic back to how difficult it is to coach at Syracuse and how 6 win seasons are basically what we should be content with.

Imagine a world where you could get paid $4M a year to not even be mediocre at what you do...Unreal. He gets more passes than the guy delivering their Uber eats order.

Dino gets more passes on accountability than Shrader completes passes. :confused:
 
You make it sound like pulling talent out of the portal is as easy as walking thru the aisles at Wegmans and saying I'll take one of those, two of these, and throw in three offensive linemen while we're at it.

There's a reason why we had to pull in six players from junior colleges for this year. Only one of the six is playing meaningful snaps, and one has already left the program.

Then you go on to say, "a decent hire can at least go 6-6 next season". So, 6-6 is acceptable?

If 6-6 is acceptable why bother?
  • $4 million to cover Dino's exit salary.
  • $3-$5 million a year for a new coach.
  • Plus a potential buyout to pull the next coach from his current job. Which is very likely if you're getting a current HC who didn't just get fired.

The bare minimum is going to be $7-$9 million to get a coach who can go 6-6?


We are a confused group of fans. We don't like the Honda we are currently driving, but we can't afford the truck with four-wheel drive and a king cab we want.
Please. Dino will get paid out over a few years. If the university can’t afford 7-9 million then they need to shut down the athletic department. What is a years tuition now 70k ish. This university has the money they chose to not spend it on athletics and take every dollar it brings in and laughs as they go to the bank.
 
I’m unclear about Dino’s contract - I thought this was his last year? What in the world is an exit salary? I’m addition to what he earned to put that awful product on the field last night?
 
I’m unclear about Dino’s contract - I thought this was his last year? What in the world is an exit salary? I’m addition to what he earned to put that awful product on the field last night?
Next year is supposedly his last on the contract. This year is definitely not his last as far as the contract goes. Exit salary I assume is the buyout for terminating his contract early.
 
I’m unclear about Dino’s contract - I thought this was his last year? What in the world is an exit salary? I’m addition to what he earned to put that awful product on the field last night?
I believe his contract runs through next season. So he'll need to be paid out the ~$4 million remaining on it when... err, I mean if... we fire him after this season.

At this point paying out that last season is not a meaningful thing to worry about from a financial perspective.

Personally, I think people here get bent around the axle of what are relatively modest financial issues. Not that anyone who manages a budget wants to "waste" several million dollars. But that's also the cost of doing business as a D1 P5 athletic program. Literally every school deals with it every so often across their major sports.

And there's always a cost/benefit analysis to be understood as well. There's no doubt that retaining Dino for 2024 will cost the AD millions in ticket sales, etc.
 
Is that what I said? No, it's not.

I asked, "So is 6-6 is acceptable?" Note the question mark. But rather than provide an answer you provided a BS response typical of a guy on a fan forum. My mistake for hoping for more.
Is 6-6 acceptable? That depends. If a team is functioning with some level of execution? That can be enjoyable to watch, knowing you have a chance, and future improvement. Uncompetitive in 6 loses is much harder to take.

Last 8 years, 2 500 seasons or better. Its important to note last years 500 ACC record.

Addazio meathead football was often mocked around here. A pro scheme. He passed less cuz they weren't so good at it. I like Oline play, so I'm in the minority, here. 7 years at BC, 6 years 500 or better. 5 years, 500 or better in the ACC. (Sent a couple 1st round oline to the NFL)

Its not exciting. Its not what people want. It works with lesser skill players. I like Duke, because their run scheme is similar. And they'll pass it 30 times a game.

There is no easy answer. I will always prefer more foundational football. Folks want more exciting...
 
Please. Dino will get paid out over a few years. If the university can’t afford 7-9 million then they need to shut down the athletic department. What is a years tuition now 70k ish. This university has the money they chose to not spend it on athletics and take every dollar it brings in and laughs as they go to the bank.
Might as well shut down the football program and transfer the $ to a wrestling program. Tuition is
$61,310 not counting fees, living on campus etc. enrollment is 15k. Such a broke university..

They also got 20 million from NYS for dome renovations.


 
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If a move is going to happen, it could happen at any time depending on how well the administration is prepared for the ensuing chaos that goes along with finding a replacement, securing assistant coaches, preventing a mass exodus, and securing new talent from the portal (Dec. 4, 2023, to Jan. 3, of 2024).

When rumblings start,
  • Assistant coaches start looking to secure employment elsewhere.
    • They don't work as hard on gameplans (not enough time to look for a job and gameplan).
    • They're not very concerned about keeping the roster together for the next coach.
    • They're not very concerned with locking up the current recruiting class.
  • Players start looking to transfer and today they have more flexibility than ever before.
    • Other programs will begin attempting to poach players currently on our roster. (it's already happening).
Chaos...
Well, sort of mimics SocietyToday. You are just being real, I will say this one thing if Dino, previously checked out and was not fully invested in this program as some have said it would shock me. If it is true, then he literarily will be held accountable for it for a much higher authority than the casual fan. I would say goodbye. If these coaches are fired they unequivocally have to tell players current and future recruits give the new guy a chance. We already know this is an amazing institution that is committing to football. Concerning Dino again He had so much swag when he first came here, even when we were losing those first couple of seasons, we rarely got blown out and we were very competitive, LSU, Clemson... I truly believe we can win here. It has to be a Northeast guy, Mac was the model. Paul and George just followed. 2 NE. guys by the way. I believe and trust in this University to make the right decisions.
 
When you look at people who are still somewhat defending him, it's largely just a bag of excuses about how hard it is to be a HC at Syracuse. When you call them out on his teams being turnover and sack machines, and his horrendous in game coaching decisions...you immediately get crickets and a change of topic back to how difficult it is to coach at Syracuse and how 6 win seasons are basically what we should be content with.

It is hard to be the head coach at Syracuse. That’s why realistic expectations are a standard of 6-8 win seasons, with occasional 9 or 10 win seasons once a decade. The people on here thinking somehow we’re going to win the ACC are setting a bar so unrealistically high they are guaranteed to be disappointed for the rest of their lives.

Dino isn’t hitting those realistic expectations, so he has to go. But if the next guy makes three straight bowl games with 6-8 win seasons, I’ll be thrilled because we finally have a guy who can meet a realistic standard of success at Syracuse. Based on comments here, there’s a surprisingly high percentage of fans on this board who are either insane or masochists, and who would choose to be disappointed in that result.
 
Is 6-6 acceptable? That depends. If a team is functioning with some level of execution? That can be enjoyable to watch, knowing you have a chance, and future improvement. Uncompetitive in 6 loses is much harder to take.

Last 8 years, 2 500 seasons or better. Its important to note last years 500 ACC record.

Addazio meathead football was often mocked around here. A pro scheme. He passed less cuz they weren't so good at it. I like Oline play, so I'm in the minority, here. 7 years at BC, 6 years 500 or better. 5 years, 500 or better in the ACC. (Sent a couple 1st round oline to the NFL)

Its not exciting. Its not what people want. It works with lesser skill players. I like Duke, because their run scheme is similar. And they'll pass it 30 times a game.

There is no easy answer. I will always prefer more foundational football. Folks want more exciting...
Interesting framing of "I like Oline play". Implying that Oline play isn't part of other offenses
 
There is a lot of competition for kids in the portal. It’s no sure thing that a new coach will be able to bring in starting level talent.
But are a new coach's odds better than Dino's will be this off-season?

I have to believe so.
 
I believe his contract runs through next season. So he'll need to be paid out the ~$4 million remaining on it when... err, I mean if... we fire him after this season.

At this point paying out that last season is not a meaningful thing to worry about from a financial perspective.

Personally, I think people here get bent around the axle of what are relatively modest financial issues. Not that anyone who manages a budget wants to "waste" several million dollars. But that's also the cost of doing business as a D1 P5 athletic program. Literally every school deals with it every so often across their major sports.

And there's always a cost/benefit analysis to be understood as well. There's no doubt that retaining Dino for 2024 will cost the AD millions in ticket sales, etc.
That last part is key.
 
Agreed. And the key is to not be precious and hang on too long. We did that with Shafer — it was obvious he was never going to be particularly good, so can him and move on.

COVID complicated things, but there was plenty of reasons to dump Dino after 2021. Personally that’s when I was thoroughly convinced he was a lousy coach.

Although I know we would have missed out on the legendary 7-6 season that we’ll sing songs about years from now.
Agree completely but I think the buyout at that time made it impossible. I don't think he's still here if that huge buyout wasn't in play.
 
Two things can be true:

The university has not supported the football program to really compete at a P5 level in decades. Even the current effort, while great, is us playing catch up.

Current demands on a P5 coach mean that you have to be able to get talent in and also be a driving force to make the admin constantly feel pressure to raise money and help them do so.

This is all on top of being a helluva coach.

Dino has had eight years. He’s always carried himself professionally and we had the one 10-win season. But you cannot have poor recruiting class after poor recruiting class and also be getting blown out on national tv.

The issue isn’t that Dino can still get us to a bowl game this year, so we need to pump the brakes. The issue is that we’re losing eyeballs on tv, butts in seats, support of the program and recruits. You don’t make decisions based on the best-case, but low percentage, scenario.

You could theoretically win the lottery to be able to retire, but you shouldn’t have that be your retirement plan.

Fire him with dignity, the university has paid him tens of millions of dollars in total so no one did him wrong, and start the search immediately.
 
But are a new coach's odds better than Dino's will be this off-season?

I have to believe so.

Years ago, a kid in the portal would be concerned who his new coach would be.

Now, a kid is only concerned with NIL $$$.

The question you really need to be asking is "Will a new coach have access to more NIL funds than Dino?"

Do you blow the entire FAAB on one player, or do you spread it around?
 
I said last year he should have been fired. There were multiple games were it just seemed we had given up. There were games that were still decently close and Babers pretty much accepted a loss cause a win wasnt very likely and just punted balls away. Once you start giving up is when someone deserves to be fired. He did it last year and is doing it again this year
 
But are a new coach's odds better than Dino's will be this off-season?

I have to believe so.
Maybe, but on the scale for starting quality the op said unlikely.
 
if he's fired after the season, how many years before we're 'competitive' - 2-3 ?
 
Years ago, a kid in the portal would be concerned who his new coach would be.

Now, a kid is only concerned with NIL $$$.

The question you really need to be asking is "Will a new coach have access to more NIL funds than Dino?"

Do you blow the entire FAAB on one player, or do you spread it around?
If they can generate excitement for this program they can generate more NIL. Maybe a new hire helps…This program is regressing at this point under Babers.
 
Bingo. Dino’s record is atrocious. Anyone pushing back against the details is just being obstinate for sake of being obstinate. Make a change, see what happens. If it doesn’t work, try again.
Yup. A lot of people say you can’t change coaches every 4 years and expect to improve, that’s great but this is year 8 of Dino Babers and the only thing we are seeing is a decline. It’s time to move on, nobody should be debating this.
 
Years ago, a kid in the portal would be concerned who his new coach would be.

Now, a kid is only concerned with NIL $$$.

The question you really need to be asking is "Will a new coach have access to more NIL funds than Dino?"

Do you blow the entire FAAB on one player, or do you spread it around?
That’s really not true.

Of course players care who the coach is. And they care about playing time. And they care about prior relationships. And they care about proximity to family. And they care about NIL, to wildly varying degrees depending on the status of the player.

Several people here keep saying we have a competitive NIL fund. I imagine SU is very focused on keeping it competitive and growing it.

NIL is a lot like work — money is very important, but it’s not everything. People are willing to sacrifice a little money if they feel an environment is better.

We have a losing environment.
 
if he's fired after the season, how many years before we're 'competitive' - 2-3 ?

Define “competitive”. With next year’s schedule, 6 wins and a bowl is achievable.
 
Interesting framing of "I like Oline play". Implying that Oline play isn't part of other offenses
I think we can all agree that Addazio's focus was on developing oline. (Marrone, too?) In a pro scheme, you must. Duke is doing well with their Pro run scheme.

You can try to mask oline play with tempo, spread, rpo, etc. NFL coaches will tell you that MANY college olinemen aren't prepared for the NFL. They lack the fundamentals that were once a given. (Another reason Addazio sent 2 1st rounders). You can try to scheme around an oline that isn't fundamentally sound. Especially if you have some skill players that can take up some slack. When that's not working? Good chance you'll stink.

I should have said, I'm more of a fan of traditional oline play. Duke is opening some nice holes, because they CAN. They are sound in their fundamentals, and you can see there has been focus, here. If you don't have 4 and 5 star skill players? You had BETTER focus on the line(imo), and put them in attack mode, where they feel they have the upper hand.

Olinemen are made. If you're a 3 star program? Those lines should be job #1, because they can match or exceed other schools with recruiting advantages. That doesn't mean meathead. It means making sure the big guys can exert their will with strong fundamentals. Get that right, and then you can focus on more "exciting" plays with your lesser skill players.

Many college's just try to scheme around mediocre oline play.
 

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