Jaw dropping stat about our offense last year from ESPN's David Hale

[Alsacs]

That is enough reason to be a little nervous. I want to be optimistic, but until I see it with my own two eyes I am in prove it model.

 

[Trueblue25]

Oh my

 

[RF2044]

Our offense was historically poor last year.

 

[jekelish]

I hate to fall back on this because it's not the only reason, but...look who was playing QB in those games. Banged up versions of AJ Long, Austin Wilson, and Mitch Kimble. That's a recipe for horrible offense.

Not only were we down to our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string guys but they were all hurt.

 

[RF2044]

I hate to fall back on this because it's not the only reason, but...look who was playing QB in those games. Banged up versions of AJ Long, Austin Wilson, and Mitch Kimble. That's a recipe for horrible offense.

Not only were we down to our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string guys but they were all hurt.

True. To say nothing of the extensive injuries all along the OL, the tumult at OC, etc.

But that lack of productivity was so dramatically impotent--it's the reason I'm skeptical about how our skilled offensive talent will perform this season, and whether they are "good enough" relative to the competition amongst our peer program rivals in conference [to say nothing of whether our offensive coaching is good enough]. That's not to say that they won't perform better this year, but I need to see it on the field. Lots of bad mojo to overcome from last year, and lots of question marks that need to be dispelled.

 

[Alsacs]

Listen it obvious we had injuries at the QB position and that is a factor for struggling. However, it is not an excuse for having the 3rd lowest scoring output in 5 games in the last 10 years. Coaching has to scheme with what they have on the field. The last 5 games were all Lester in charge the guy hasn't proven a thing yet. We should all support him and hope we can improve, but nobody in their right mind can believe this guy has proven he can coach a productive D-1 offense after what we have seen.

We all want to win, but I want to see it before I believe it and don't think the staff being on notice is unfair.

 

[jekelish]

Listen it obvious we had injuries at the QB position and that is a factor for struggling. However, it is not an excuse for having the 3rd lowest scoring output in 5 games in the last 10 years. Coaching has to scheme with what they have on the field. The last 5 games were all Lester in charge the guy hasn't proven a thing yet. We should all support him and hope we can improve, but nobody in their right mind can believe this guy has proven he can coach a productive D-1 offense after what we have seen.

We all want to win, but I want to see it before I believe it and don't think the staff being on notice is unfair.

Hey, you don't have to convince me that Lester needs to show what he can do. The offense averaged 273 yards per game with him calling the plays last year. That will not stand.

But, I'm willing to give him at least a little bit of a mulligan just based on how many hurdles there were to overcome.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Listen it obvious we had injuries at the QB position and that is a factor for struggling. However, it is not an excuse for having the 3rd lowest scoring output in 5 games in the last 10 years. Coaching has to scheme with what they have on the field. The last 5 games were all Lester in charge the guy hasn't proven a thing yet. We should all support him and hope we can improve, but nobody in their right mind can believe this guy has proven he can coach a productive D-1 offense after what we have seen.

We all want to win, but I want to see it before I believe it and don't think the staff being on notice is unfair.

Lester was still using McDonald's playbook for the rest of the season. Because they weren't even going to attempt to install a brand new offense until Spring.

 

[longtimefan]

I hate to fall back on this because it's not the only reason, but...look who was playing QB in those games. Banged up versions of AJ Long, Austin Wilson, and Mitch Kimble. That's a recipe for horrible offense.

Not only were we down to our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string guys but they were all hurt.

And the whole team was mentally defeated once they couldn't qualify for a bowl.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Listen it obvious we had injuries at the QB position and that is a factor for struggling. However, it is not an excuse for having the 3rd lowest scoring output in 5 games in the last 10 years. Coaching has to scheme with what they have on the field. The last 5 games were all Lester in charge the guy hasn't proven a thing yet. We should all support him and hope we can improve, but nobody in their right mind can believe this guy has proven he can coach a productive D-1 offense after what we have seen.

We all want to win, but I want to see it before I believe it and don't think the staff being on notice is unfair.

I think that it was more about the line than the QB, to be honest. You can have a very green guy back there at QB, if you have a line that can run block and give the QB 4 seconds in the pocket to make a pass. For the amount of returning talent we had on the O line last year (4 returning starters - all except Mackey), there is no way we should have been that terrible. Sure, some of it was bad play calling from the OC until he was demoted. Some of it was kids learning new plays / somewhat of a new system in the middle of the season. But at the end of the day, it comes down to big guys being able to move other big guys up front. If that doesn't happen, none of the rest of it can happen.

 

[TheCusian]

Listen it obvious we had injuries at the QB position and that is a factor for struggling. However, it is not an excuse for having the 3rd lowest scoring output in 5 games in the last 10 years. Coaching has to scheme with what they have on the field. The last 5 games were all Lester in charge the guy hasn't proven a thing yet. We should all support him and hope we can improve, but nobody in their right mind can believe this guy has proven he can coach a productive D-1 offense after what we have seen. We all want to win, but I want to see it before I believe it and don't think the staff being on notice is unfair.

Straw man alert! Who's saying they've shown anything on offense?

I've said that Lester deserves an offseason and a season to show what he can do. I think this is the consensus opinion.

 

[RF2044]

I think that it was more about the line than the QB, to be honest. You can have a very green guy back there at QB, if you have a line that can run block and give the QB 4 seconds in the pocket to make a pass. For the amount of returning talent we had on the O line last year (4 returning starters - all except Mackey), there is no way we should have been that terrible. Sure, some of it was bad play calling from the OC until he was demoted. Some of it was kids learning new plays / somewhat of a new system in the middle of the season. But at the end of the day, it comes down to big guys being able to move other big guys up front. If that doesn't happen, none of the rest of it can happen.

Agree to an extent. I believe [my opinion only] that the problems were multi-dimensional--as in, poor play calling, erratic QB play, subpar offensive playmakers, OL injuries, disruptive change with the OC, etc. Most people seem determined to focus only on one dimension and blame that as the root cause for the offensive ineptitude, but I believe [again, my opinion only] that it was a bunch of stuff in tandem.

And that those things combined might be difficult to turn around in only a year.

 

[Alsacs]

Straw man alert! Who's saying they've shown anything on offense?

I've said that Lester deserves an offseason and a season to show what he can do. I think this is the consensus opinion.

The base of people who think Shafer should get 2016 no matter is the crowd I am talking about. Don't tell me there isn't a portion of our fanbase that believes that. If our offense is not improved and look like a college D-1 offense I don't want to hear give him another year. I want the chips on the table.

 

[TheCusian]

Agree to an extent. I believe [my opinion only] that the problems were multi-dimensional--as in, poor play calling, erratic QB play, subpar offensive playmakers, OL injuries, disruptive change with the OC, etc. Most people seem determined to focus only on one dimension and blame that as the root cause for the offensive ineptitude, but I believe [again, my opinion only] that it was a bunch of stuff in tandem. And that those things combined might be difficult to turn around in only a year.

Some are and some are ? and some are not. I'd also give some weight to the new system (and its simplicity), young playmakers (Ish and Phillips) growing up, and Hunt/Broyld/Estime finally putting it together.

 

[TheCusian]

The base of people who think Shafer should get 2016 no matter is the crowd I am talking about. Don't tell me there isn't a portion of our fanbase that believes that. If our offense is not improved and look like a college D-1 offense I don't want to hear give him another year. I want the chips on the table.

You said there are people that think "Lester has proven something"... I don't think I've seen anyone saying that?

There are people who think Shafer should get 2016 automatically. I think barring the same result as last season - he should be back.

 

[jekelish]

Agree to an extent. I believe [my opinion only] that the problems were multi-dimensional--as in, poor play calling, erratic QB play, subpar offensive playmakers, OL injuries, disruptive change with the OC, etc. Most people seem determined to focus only on one dimension and blame that as the root cause for the offensive ineptitude, but I believe [again, my opinion only] that it was a bunch of stuff in tandem.

And that those things combined might be difficult to turn around in only a year.

Agreed. And a football offense is so absurdly symbiotic (OL/RB/WR/QB all need each other to thrive) that when multiple areas are failing, the entire offense fails miserably and completely. You can probably get away with one of those four things not working, but you can't get away with multiple, particularly if the two that are working especially poorly are OL and QB. Poor QB play negates whatever you have at WR, and poor OL play both hinders the QB and the RB.

 

[Scooch]

Our offense was historically poor last year.

That's what some still don't seem to fully recognize. We weren't just bad offensively last year, we were a level of bad that is almost impossible to achieve in today's game.

I still cannot completely wrap my brain around the fact that after that kind of "historically poor" performance that we did not even pretend to conduct a real search for an OC.

I'm a fan, and I want nothing but the best for the program, and I want Shafer to be wildly successful. But let's just say that he's employing a management style that I find disconcerting.

 

[RoatanCuse]

When Lester coached at Elmhurst, how did the offense fare in the red zone? Key issue going forward.

 

[jekelish]

When Lester coached at Elmhurst, how did the offense fare in the red zone? Key issue going forward.

2012: 61% TD, 76% TD or FG
2011: 60%, 72%
2010: 65%, 77%
2009: 57%, 76%
2008: 72%, 87%

By contrast:

SU last season: 40%, 80%

Keep in mind the TD or FG stat is tough to measure against D3, because trust me, decent kickers are extremely hard to find at the D3 level so the points are going to be left off the board with staggering frequency when you have to attempt a field goal over 25 yards. Any mediocre kicker is going to find his way into a D1, 1AA, D2, or NAIA program.

 

[Full_Rebar]

SU's offense didn't score more than 20 points against a BCS level opponent last year. We can make all the excuses in the world, that's simply unheard of in this era of college football.

I'm with Scooch- the fact that the QB coach and OC for the last half of the season was promoted without a search for alternatives is a concern.

 

[Millhouse]

Lester was still using McDonald's playbook for the rest of the season. Because they weren't even going to attempt to install a brand new offense until Spring.

i don't care if the mcf***itplaybook consisted of nothing but crudely drawn d!cks and the 1st through 8th stringers were in the hospital, that stat is major cause for concern

 

[jekelish]

i don't care if the mcf***itplaybook consisted of nothing but crudely drawn d!cks and the 1st through 8th stringers were in the hospital, that stat is major cause for concern

With that image of a playbook, I keep imagining "Hard six slanting slightly right on two, ready, break!"

 

[Scooch]

SU's offense didn't score more than 20 points against a BCS level opponent last year. We can make all the excuses in the world, that's simply unheard of in this era of college football..

The one bit of fairness to interject is that 3 of those last 5 D's we played were pretty good...

Clemson -- 17.6 PPG
NC State -- 27.0 PPG
Duke -- 20.6 PPG
Pitt -- 25.6 PPG
BC -- 20.5 PPG

Granted their numbers are a better because they played our anemic O.

But we scored 47 points against opponents that averaged giving up 111. That's atrocious.

Better give the OC a 3-year extension.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Someone with more time, and more strength to stomach a closer look, can determine what those teams averaged if you take away the SU game.

Also, why are we bothering with D3 stats? How exactly are they relevant to the ACC?

 

[jekelish]

Someone with more time, and more strength to stomach a closer look, can determine what those teams averaged if you take away the SU game.

Also, why are we bothering with D3 stats? How exactly are they relevant to the ACC?

They're not, really. But someone asked how his Elmhurst offenses did in the red zone, so I obliged.