JB and the Bench

[longislandcuse]

I mean... it has to be addressed, right?

I am of the opinion that it is not a coincidence that Battle/Howard/Brissett looked All-ACC after some time off.

I am also of the opinion that it is completely ridiculous in a game where we were up double digits for pretty much the entirety, that we couldn't get a sub in for either of those 3 until one minute left in the game, and even then, only Howard comes out.

With Moyer getting hurt, I get why Marek played all game and with Sidibe's status seemingly "Emergency Center" going into every game, I also understand Chukwu...but c'mon... we can't get breathers for our Big 3 in a blowout win?

 

[upperdeck]

the game was played at a pace a 50yr old would have liked.. BC didnt even really press or foul to try to get back in.. BC was down 18 vs UL with 4 to go and almost tied the game, so i dont think JB ever thought this game was in the bag enough to not push it to the end.

 

[OttoMets]

I mean... it has to be addressed, right?

I am of the opinion that it is not a coincidence that Battle/Howard/Brissett looked All-ACC after some time off.

I am also of the opinion that it is completely ridiculous in a game where we were up double digits for pretty much the entirety, that we couldn't get a sub in for either of those 3 until one minute left in the game, and even then, only Howard comes out.

With Moyer getting hurt, I get why Marek played all game and with Sidibe's status seemingly "Emergency Center" going into every game, I also understand Chukwu...but c'mon... we can't get breathers for our Big 3 in a blowout win?

The math seemed to favor getting one of the guards out with about 4:00 to play when Boeheim went to the stall. I don't know what his gut said, but it seemed like Battle's night could have ended early. When he took a hard foul on a fast break a couple minutes later, it was really looking like a bad choice to have him out there.

 

[longislandcuse]

the game was played at a pace a 50yr old would have liked.. BC didnt even really press or foul to try to get back in.. BC was down 18 vs UL with 4 to go and almost tied the game, so i dont think JB ever thought this game was in the bag enough to not push it to the end.

True, but HW isn't so bad that he can't spell Battle/Howard/Brissett for one minute each. If anything, to take the mental fatigue aspect of playing 40 per away. It's a thing.. we heard the announcers ask Battle about it right away.

We also went up 16 (I think) with 2 left. BC can shoot it, but really?..

 

[DBCooper]

True, but HW isn't so bad that he can't spell Battle/Howard/Brissett for one minute each. If anything, to take the mental fatigue aspect of playing 40 per away. It's a thing.. we heard the announcers ask Battle about it right away.

We also went up 16 (I think) with 2 left. BC can shoot it, but really?..

It's a thing because an announcer asked about it? What was Battle's answer?

 

[longislandcuse]

It's a thing because an announcer asked about it? What was Battle's answer?

His answer is what any college kids answer would be. Doesn't mean it doesn't take a toll.. which is why no other college coaches with players as good, better than Battle, play them 40 per.

 

[DBCooper]

His answer is what any college kids answer would be. Doesn't mean it doesn't take a toll.. which is why no other college coaches with players as good, better than Battle, play them 40 per.

So it's a thing because YOU think it's a thing. The fact that Battle denies it proves your point.

 

[longislandcuse]

So it's a thing because YOU think it's a thing. The fact that Battle denies it proves your point.

Our players are all aware that they lead the country in minutes played. They have to answer questions about it before/after games and are aware that going into every game, they cant/won't get a breather. That leads to physical and mental fatigue.

When we struggle in close games so far this year, I think it's reasonable to point to minutes played as a possible reason.

There's something to the fact coaches with players as good/better than Battle, Howard and Brissett don't play them 40 per.

 

[JeremyCuse]

At this point you have to figure Sidibe is still having major issues. Which is really to bad, would have been great to get him 5-10 minutes of PT this game and try and get his feet back under him. The staff really needs to look into some sort of big man for next year because Chukwu can't keep playing 40 mins a night.

Moyer being hurt I think played a big role, with him healthy you might have seen JB have him sub for Brisett for a few minutes and let him Dolezaj play together late. No idea why HW didn't see some run earlier in the second half. Bizarre.

 

[orangecuse]

Our players are all aware that they lead the country in minutes played. They have to answer questions about it before/after games and are aware that going into every game, they cant/won't get a breather. That leads to physical and mental fatigue.

When we struggle in close games so far this year, I think it's reasonable to point to minutes played as a possible reason.

There's something to the fact coaches with players as good/better than Battle, Howard and Brissett don't play them 40 per.

In my opinion, mental fatigue is likely larger than the physical part, although you can clearly correlate the two. We all don't play the game of hoops at this level, but a lot of us has played sports in some capacity. And, when you get physically tired, to a degree it certainly bleeds into your mental state of mind.

 

[PhatOrange]

You'd think in a 20 point win Washington could've found more than 2 minutes worth of playing time.

 

[patcuse]

Our players are all aware that they lead the country in minutes played. They have to answer questions about it before/after games and are aware that going into every game, they cant/won't get a breather. That leads to physical and mental fatigue.

When we struggle in close games so far this year, I think it's reasonable to point to minutes played as a possible reason.

There's something to the fact coaches with players as good/better than Battle, Howard and Brissett don't play them 40 per.

How many 40 min games do theses kids have to play year after year to prove to you they can play 40 min.

Actual time of game is roughly 2 hrs. That’s 40 min play time vs 80 min rest time.

 

[OttoMets]

How many 40 min games do theses kids have to play year after year to prove to you they can play 40 min.

Actual time of game is roughly 2 hrs. That’s 40 min play time vs 80 min rest time.

We're talking about how much they play in relation to their competition, not quibbling over how much of that two-hour period they spend playing basketball.

By that comparison, Syracuse players play too much and could use a rest.

 

[Townie72]

So it's a thing because YOU think it's a thing. The fact that Battle denies it proves your point.

Nice try. You'll not convince these guys.

When JB says we play zone which takes less energy and there are more and longer stoppages of play than there ever were, they just disregard that. Because "no one else does it."

When Battle denies it, they say he's lying about it.

You won't convince these amateur exercise physiologists. They can sense the tiredness of the team through those flat screens.

 

[Brian Orange]

You'd think in a 20 point win Washington could've found more than 2 minutes worth of playing time.

Especially considering Howard went down twice and got up slowly shaking his hand.

 

[Dinkyspond]

I mean... it has to be addressed, right?

I am of the opinion that it is not a coincidence that Battle/Howard/Brissett looked All-ACC after some time off.

I am also of the opinion that it is completely ridiculous in a game where we were up double digits for pretty much the entirety, that we couldn't get a sub in for either of those 3 until one minute left in the game, and even then, only Howard comes out.

With Moyer getting hurt, I get why Marek played all game and with Sidibe's status seemingly "Emergency Center" going into every game, I also understand Chukwu...but c'mon... we can't get breathers for our Big 3 in a blowout win?

The answer is no. BC shrunk an 18-point deficit on the road vs. Louisville(arguably a much better team than SU) to 2 points in less than 3 minutes. Sitting them for 3 to 5 minutes isn't going to help them much anyway. May as well ride them to the end.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I thought this was a Jeopardy clue.

The 'answer' is What are things on the Syracuse basketball team that are not familiar with each other?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This feels like a thread that has real potential.

 

[Waltdods]

I mean... it has to be addressed, right?

I am of the opinion that it is not a coincidence that Battle/Howard/Brissett looked All-ACC after some time off.

I am also of the opinion that it is completely ridiculous in a game where we were up double digits for pretty much the entirety, that we couldn't get a sub in for either of those 3 until one minute left in the game, and even then, only Howard comes out.

With Moyer getting hurt, I get why Marek played all game and with Sidibe's status seemingly "Emergency Center" going into every game, I also understand Chukwu...but c'mon... we can't get breathers for our Big 3 in a blowout win?

There's never going to be a particularly good explanation for this, other than that it's what Boeheim do. It's the part of the Boeheim coaching package I like the least. I think Syracuse has suffered for this in the past, though not so much because guys get tired in individual games. Instead, I think the biggest problem is that this tendency not to develop guys over the course of the season leads to guys being woefully unprepared when unexpectedly forced into action- see Dashonte Riley in'10, or even Trevor Cooney in the '13 run. Arguably, Howard Washington this year is a milder example - if he'd seen more minutes before Thorpe left, he might have been more ready to step in.

But the Boeheim package on net is a very good one, so you take the less-good with the more-good.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I mean... it has to be addressed, right?

I am of the opinion that it is not a coincidence that Battle/Howard/Brissett looked All-ACC after some time off.

I am also of the opinion that it is completely ridiculous in a game where we were up double digits for pretty much the entirety, that we couldn't get a sub in for either of those 3 until one minute left in the game, and even then, only Howard comes out.

With Moyer getting hurt, I get why Marek played all game and with Sidibe's status seemingly "Emergency Center" going into every game, I also understand Chukwu...but c'mon... we can't get breathers for our Big 3 in a blowout win?

Come on LI, you know the responses you'll get here. JB - HOF Coach - Championship winner.

Our responses to that will be One championship in 40 years. Zero ACC tourney wins.

This thread likely will get locked down, but not before Townie gets his digs in. I've prepopulated mine...

 

[Townie72]

We're talking about how much they play in relation to their competition, not quibbling over how much of that two-hour period they spend playing basketball.

By that comparison, Syracuse players play too much and could use a rest.

So it's about relative tiredness?

Only the amount of time they are in the game matters?

Somehow players who play 34 minutes are more effective than than those that play 40 minutes regardless of what they are doing (Press vs. M2M vs Zone versus fast-breaking vs walking the ball up court on offense).

After reading these statements on here, I decided to do some reading on the subject. What I found was that it is a very complicated subject with a lot of differing opinions among the researchers and experts who study "fatigue" and "recovery rates" and blood oxygen content and acids produced during exercise and even more stuff.

I don't know if how tired these guys are. But neither do you and it's highly possible that three of four minutes more of playing doesn't mean shxt.

 

[upperdeck]

If teams are going to press us, and some are, then playing 40 min is a toll. if teams are going to let us walk the ball up and pass the ball around for 25 secs, its not a big deal. there were like 5 sprints up the court combined in that game.. Even if BC cant press a darn they could have tried it when we were down to 5 guys for a whole game

 

[Townie72]

Come on LI, you know the responses you'll get here. JB - HOF Coach - Championship winner.

Our responses to that will be One championship in 40 years. Zero ACC tourney wins.

This thread likely will get locked down, but not before Townie gets his digs in. I've prepopulated mine...

You have to trust someone.

Someone knows what they are talking about and others do not.

I'll stick with JB on this one. He's there. He's been doing this for 40+ years. And, most importantly, he wants to win more than anyone.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I get the train of thought but changing the though process of a man into his seventies isn't a venture I would be willing to say will have a positive outcome. The last few years I don't think he has had much option but even when he has had depth JB will play the 6-7 kids.

On the flip side, I get rest seems to be the trend in the NBA, etc but this isn't the NBA and these guys are all 19-21, big difference in 10 years

Let them play!!!!!!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So it's about relative tiredness?

Only the amount of time they are in the game matters?

Somehow players who play 34 minutes are more effective than than those that play 40 minutes regardless of what they are doing (Press vs. M2M vs Zone versus fast-breaking vs walking the ball up court on offense).

After reading these statements on here, I decided to do some reading on the subject. What I found was that it is a very complicated subject with a lot of differing opinions among the researchers and experts who study "fatigue" and "recovery rates" and blood oxygen content and acids produced during exercise and even more stuff.

I don't know if how tired these guys are. But neither do you and it's highly possible that three of four minutes more of playing doesn't mean shxt.

I'd argue our zone defense is actually more physically taxing than playing some man to man defenses. We ask each of our players to cover a far greater portion of the court than anyone ever has to playing man. Our forwards have to cover from the opposite side of the paint, out to the corner, and up to the foul line extended plus some more. That's a lot of territory to cover, which gets amplified when you consider the speeds they must attain to get out on shooters, etc. This ain't our father's zone defense and that just playing zone doesn't take as much energy is really a weak excuse.