JB as an underdog in the NCAA's | Syracusefan.com

JB as an underdog in the NCAA's

SWC75

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If we are a 11 seed this year we will likely be an underdog in every NCAA tournament game we play. I decided to check JB’s record when his team had a lower seed.

1977: The tournament was not seeded yet but we were surely underdogs when we faced Tennessee’s Ernie and Bernie Show in Baton Rouge and beat them 93-88 in OT. 1-0

1983: We were a 6 seed when we lost, 74-79, to 3 seed Ohio State, (whom we’d beaten 91-85 in the Dome three months before). Bald-headed Granville “Granny” Waiters dunked in a couple of follow shots to close us out. 1-1

1985: As a 7 seed we lost to 2 seed Georgia Tech 53-70. 1-2

1987: As a 2 seed, we beat 1 seed North Carolina 79-75. Take that Dickie V! Then we lost to 1 seed Indiana in the final 73-74. Curse you, Keith Smart! 2-3

1989: As a 2 seed we lose to 1 seed Illinois in the regional final, 86-89. Sherman Douglas’ last game and the Illni beat us with alley oops! 86-89. 2-4

1992: As a 6 seed we lost to 3 seed Massachusetts 71-77 in OT. I recall a late out-bounds call that went against us that the refs later admitted they blew. Thanks. 2-5

1994: As a 4 seed we lose to 1 seed Missouri 88-98 in OT. The refs disallow a shot Adrian Autry made from the floor. 2-6

1995: As a 7 seed we lose to 2 seed, (and defending national champion) Arkansas, we again lose in overtime, 94-96. We would have won it if Lawrence Moten, in his last game, hadn’t called a time out we didn’t have. 2-7

1996: We finally win an overtime game – over Georgia, 83-81. We were a 4 seed, they were an 8. We then knocked off 2 seed Kansas in the regional final 60-57. We beat a 5 seed, Mississippi State, in the national semi-finals and then lost to 1 seed Kentucky 67-76 in the final. 3-8

1998: We were a 5 seed and New Mexico a 4 seed when we beat them 56-46. Then we lost to 1 seed Duke 67-80 in the Sweet 16. We were in a bracket with Duke, Kentucky and UCLA! 4-9

2000: As a 4 seed we took on 1 seed and defending national champion Michigan State in their back yard and built up a 40-26 second half lead. Then they solved the zone and scored the last 17 points of the game to win 58-75. 4-10

2001: As a 5 seed we lost to 4 seed Kansas 58-87. We got crushed on the boards and Kansas looked like a potential national champion…until they lost to Illinois by 16. The Illini looked like a potential national champion….until they lost to Arizona by 6. Arizona looked like a potential national champions…until they lost to Duke by 10. Were we 61 points worse than Duke? 4-11

2003: We were a 3 seed and beat 1 seed Oklahoma 63-47, 1 seed Texas 95-84 and 2 seed Kansas 81-78 for the national championship. 7-11

2004: We were a 5 seed and beat 4 seed Maryland 72-70. It was a battle of the schools that had won the last two national championships. 8-11

2009: We were a 3 seed when we lost to 2 seed Oklahoma and Blake Griffin 71-84. 8-12

2013: We were a 4 seed when we crushed 1 seed Indiana 61-50 and 3 seed Marquette 55-39. We lost to Michigan, also a 4 seed, in the Final Four. 10-12

2016: We were a 10 seed when we gained revenge on Dayton, who had beaten us in 2014, 70-51. Middle Tennessee State was a 15 seed and Gonzaga an 11 seed, (which surprises me),, so those weren’t upsets. But the 68-62 win over 1 seed Virginia sure was. The coach turned into a pumpkin vs. another 1 seed, North Carolina in the Final Four. (He later turned back into a human.) 12-13

2018: After beating fellow 11 seed Arizona State 60-56, we knocked off 6 seed Texas Christian 57-52 in the round of 64 and 3 seed Michigan State 55-53 in the round of 32 before almost beating 2 seed Duke in the sweet 16. 14-14

That’s right, JB has a winning record as an underdog in the NCAA tournament and is 10-2 since 2003!

He is 60-33 overall, (don’t tell the NCAA who has him 56-33). So as a favorite, he’s 46-19. He’s been upset 29% of the time but has pulled off the upset 50% of the time.
 
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If we are a 11 seed this year we will likely be an underdog in every NCAA tournament game we play. I decided to check JB’s record when his team had a lower seed.

1977: The tournament was not seeded yet but we were surely underdogs when we faced Tennessee’s Ernie and Bernie Show in Baton Rouge and beat them 93-88 in OT. 1-0

1983: We were a 6 seed when we lost, 74-79, to 3 seed Ohio State, (whom we’d beaten 91-85 in the Dome three months before). Bald-headed Granville “Granny” Waiters dunked in a couple of follow shots to close us out. 1-1

1985: As a 7 seed we lost to 2 seed Georgia Tech 53-70. 1-2

1987: As a 2 seed, we beat 1 seed North Carolina 79-75. Take that Dickie V! Then we lost to 1 seed Indiana in the final 73-74. Curse you, Keith Smart! 2-3

1989: As a 2 seed we lose to 1 seed Illinois in the regional final, 86-89. Sherman Douglas’ last game and the Illni beat us with alley oops! 86-89. 2-4

1992: As a 6 seed we lost to 3 seed Massachusetts 71-77 in OT. I recall a late out-bounds call that went against us that the refs later admitted they blew. Thanks. 2-5

1994: As a 4 seed we lose to 1 seed Missouri 88-98 in OT. The refs disallow a shot Adrian Autry made from the floor. 2-6

1995: As a 7 seed we lose to 2 seed, (and defending national champion) Arkansas, we again lose in overtime, 94-96. We would have won it if Lawrence Moten, in his last game, hadn’t called a time out we didn’t have. 2-7

1996: We finally win an overtime game – over Georgia, 83-81. We were a 4 seed, they were an 8. We then knocked off 2 seed Kansas in the regional final 60-57. We beat a 5 seed, Mississippi State, in the national semi-finals and then lost to 1 seed Kentucky 67-76 in the final. 3-8

1998: We were a 5 seed and New Mexico a 4 seed when we beat them 56-46. Then we lost to 1 seed Duke 67-80 in the Sweet 16. We were in a bracket with Duke, Kentucky and UCLA! 4-9

2000: As a 4 seed we took on 1 seed and defending national champion Michigan State in their back yard and built up a 40-26 second half lead. Then they solved the zone and scored the last 17 points of the game to win 58-75. 4-10

2001: As a 5 seed we lost to 4 seed Kansas 58-87. We got crushed on the boards and Kansas looked like a potential national champion…until they lost to Illinois by 16. The Illini looked like a potential national champion….until they lost to Arizona by 6. Arizona looked like a potential national champions…until they lost to Duke by 10. Were we 61 points worse than Duke? 4-11

2003: We were a 3 seed and beat 1 seed Oklahoma 63-47, 1 seed Texas 95-84 and 2 seed Kansas 81-78 for the national championship. 7-11

2004: We were a 5 seed and beat 4 seed Maryland 72-70. It was a battle of the schools that had won the last two national championships. 8-11

2009: We were a 3 seed when we lost to 2 seed Oklahoma and Blake Griffin 71-84. 8-12

2013: We were a 4 seed when we crushed 1 seed Indiana 61-50 and 3 seed Marquette 55-39. We lost to Michigan, also a 4 seed, in the Final Four. 10-12

2016: We were a 10 seed when we gained revenge on Dayton, who had beaten us in 2014, 70-51. Middle Tennessee State was a 15 seed and Gonzaga an 11 seed, (which surprises me),, so those weren’t upsets. But the 68-62 win over 1 seed Virginia sure was. The coach turned into a pumpkin vs. another 1 seed, North Carolina in the Final Four. (He later turned back into a human.) 12-12

2018: After beating fellow 11 seed Arizona State 60-56, we knocked off 6 seed Texas Christian 57-52 in the round of 64 and 3 seed Michigan State 55-53 in the round of 32 before almost beating 2 seed Duke in the sweet 16. 14-12

That’s right, JB has a winning record as an underdog in the NCAA tournament and is 12-5 since 1996!

He is 60-33 overall, (don’t tell the NCAA who has him 56-33). So as a favorite, he’s 46-21. He’s been upset 31% of the time but has pulled off the upset 54% of the time.
I thought Luke Jackson called that T.O. in '95?
 
Good to see JB only gets better with age although I feel like upsets are more common than they used to be and this trend of JB winning more upsets might just track with a larger national trend toward that.
 
Great job SWC75 with all the stats on underdog wins in NCAA's. After reviewing all this info I would say we have SDSU right where we want them!!
 
If we are a 11 seed this year we will likely be an underdog in every NCAA tournament game we play. I decided to check JB’s record when his team had a lower seed.

1977: The tournament was not seeded yet but we were surely underdogs when we faced Tennessee’s Ernie and Bernie Show in Baton Rouge and beat them 93-88 in OT. 1-0

1983: We were a 6 seed when we lost, 74-79, to 3 seed Ohio State, (whom we’d beaten 91-85 in the Dome three months before). Bald-headed Granville “Granny” Waiters dunked in a couple of follow shots to close us out. 1-1

1985: As a 7 seed we lost to 2 seed Georgia Tech 53-70. 1-2

1987: As a 2 seed, we beat 1 seed North Carolina 79-75. Take that Dickie V! Then we lost to 1 seed Indiana in the final 73-74. Curse you, Keith Smart! 2-3

1989: As a 2 seed we lose to 1 seed Illinois in the regional final, 86-89. Sherman Douglas’ last game and the Illni beat us with alley oops! 86-89. 2-4

1992: As a 6 seed we lost to 3 seed Massachusetts 71-77 in OT. I recall a late out-bounds call that went against us that the refs later admitted they blew. Thanks. 2-5

1994: As a 4 seed we lose to 1 seed Missouri 88-98 in OT. The refs disallow a shot Adrian Autry made from the floor. 2-6

1995: As a 7 seed we lose to 2 seed, (and defending national champion) Arkansas, we again lose in overtime, 94-96. We would have won it if Lawrence Moten, in his last game, hadn’t called a time out we didn’t have. 2-7

1996: We finally win an overtime game – over Georgia, 83-81. We were a 4 seed, they were an 8. We then knocked off 2 seed Kansas in the regional final 60-57. We beat a 5 seed, Mississippi State, in the national semi-finals and then lost to 1 seed Kentucky 67-76 in the final. 3-8

1998: We were a 5 seed and New Mexico a 4 seed when we beat them 56-46. Then we lost to 1 seed Duke 67-80 in the Sweet 16. We were in a bracket with Duke, Kentucky and UCLA! 4-9

2000: As a 4 seed we took on 1 seed and defending national champion Michigan State in their back yard and built up a 40-26 second half lead. Then they solved the zone and scored the last 17 points of the game to win 58-75. 4-10

2001: As a 5 seed we lost to 4 seed Kansas 58-87. We got crushed on the boards and Kansas looked like a potential national champion…until they lost to Illinois by 16. The Illini looked like a potential national champion….until they lost to Arizona by 6. Arizona looked like a potential national champions…until they lost to Duke by 10. Were we 61 points worse than Duke? 4-11

2003: We were a 3 seed and beat 1 seed Oklahoma 63-47, 1 seed Texas 95-84 and 2 seed Kansas 81-78 for the national championship. 7-11

2004: We were a 5 seed and beat 4 seed Maryland 72-70. It was a battle of the schools that had won the last two national championships. 8-11

2009: We were a 3 seed when we lost to 2 seed Oklahoma and Blake Griffin 71-84. 8-12

2013: We were a 4 seed when we crushed 1 seed Indiana 61-50 and 3 seed Marquette 55-39. We lost to Michigan, also a 4 seed, in the Final Four. 10-12

2016: We were a 10 seed when we gained revenge on Dayton, who had beaten us in 2014, 70-51. Middle Tennessee State was a 15 seed and Gonzaga an 11 seed, (which surprises me),, so those weren’t upsets. But the 68-62 win over 1 seed Virginia sure was. The coach turned into a pumpkin vs. another 1 seed, North Carolina in the Final Four. (He later turned back into a human.) 12-12

2018: After beating fellow 11 seed Arizona State 60-56, we knocked off 6 seed Texas Christian 57-52 in the round of 64 and 3 seed Michigan State 55-53 in the round of 32 before almost beating 2 seed Duke in the sweet 16. 14-12

That’s right, JB has a winning record as an underdog in the NCAA tournament and is 12-5 since 1996!

He is 60-33 overall, (don’t tell the NCAA who has him 56-33). So as a favorite, he’s 46-21. He’s been upset 31% of the time but has pulled off the upset 54% of the time.
Thanks for putting this together! Looks like you didn’t count our loss to NC in 2016 and our loss to Duke in 2018 in the final record. Should be 14-14.
 
Thanks for putting this together! Looks like you didn’t count our loss to NC in 2016 and our loss to Duke in 2018 in the final record. Should be 14-14.

Looks like I did:

2016: We were a 10 seed when we gained revenge on Dayton, who had beaten us in 2014, 70-51. Middle Tennessee State was a 15 seed and Gonzaga an 11 seed, (which surprises me),, so those weren’t upsets. But the 68-62 win over 1 seed Virginia sure was. The coach turned into a pumpkin vs. another 1 seed, North Carolina in the Final Four. (He later turned back into a human.) 12-12

2018: After beating fellow 11 seed Arizona State 60-56, we knocked off 6 seed Texas Christian 57-52 in the round of 64 and 3 seed Michigan State 55-53 in the round of 32 before almost beating 2 seed Duke in the sweet 16. 14-12


Edit: Oops! I read my prose but not my math. See below.
 
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Looks like I did:

2016: We were a 10 seed when we gained revenge on Dayton, who had beaten us in 2014, 70-51. Middle Tennessee State was a 15 seed and Gonzaga an 11 seed, (which surprises me),, so those weren’t upsets. But the 68-62 win over 1 seed Virginia sure was. The coach turned into a pumpkin vs. another 1 seed, North Carolina in the Final Four. (He later turned back into a human.) 12-12

2018: After beating fellow 11 seed Arizona State 60-56, we knocked off 6 seed Texas Christian 57-52 in the round of 64 and 3 seed Michigan State 55-53 in the round of 32 before almost beating 2 seed Duke in the sweet 16. 14-12

You certainly talked about them, but you didn't actually count them. Assuming that was an error in the seeds being swapped in 1985, and the rest of your research is correct, it appears JB's record as an underdog is 14-14.
 
Thanks for putting this together! Looks like you didn’t count our loss to NC in 2016 and our loss to Duke in 2018 in the final record. Should be 14-14.
You are right. I'm wrong. I noted them but didn't do the math. My apologies and I will now correct it. I also note that we were 2-4 from 1996-2001 so the current streak is an even more impressive 10-2 which i will also correct.
 
You certainly talked about them, but you didn't actually count them. Assuming that was an error in the seeds being swapped in 1985, and the rest of your research is correct, it appears JB's record as an underdog is 14-14.

You are correct although I don't know what you mean by the seeds being swapped in 1985.
 
You are right. I'm wrong. I noted them but didn't do the math. My apologies and I will now correct it. I also note that we were 2-4 from 1996-2001 so the current streak is an even more impressive 10-2 which i will also correct.
How could you let this happen?
 
And you call yourself a fan? That’s like saying you thought Jack Ruby killed JFK.
I lost my ship when that happened. Put that game out of my mind after it ended.
 
Lots of games against #1 seeds in there. Some wins some losses. But an amazingly high number of OT games and close games against higher seeds. Great post.
 
scary part is that almost all those loses were to 1-2-3 seeds. teams you really should lose to almost all the time if you are not a top 10 type team anyway. not many losses to teams 4-8 seed.
 
the narrative on JB in the tourney has certainly changed over time, after my freshman year at SU (when we lost to Navy in round 2, at the Dome), JB was cemented as a choker who couldn't win the big one. Even with the trip to the finals in 1987 (I still can't watch that game ever again), the losses to Rhode Island and Richmond kept that narrative going. It began to change after we came out of probation in 1993-1994, and particularly with the 1996 trip to the finals. 2003 gave him the slam dunk respect and props for good, but 1996 began the narrative of "hey, this dude is a really good coach"
 
He’s really upped his tournament performance since 2011 in my opinion.
 
the narrative on JB in the tourney has certainly changed over time, after my freshman year at SU (when we lost to Navy in round 2, at the Dome), JB was cemented as a choker who couldn't win the big one. Even with the trip to the finals in 1987 (I still can't watch that game ever again), the losses to Rhode Island and Richmond kept that narrative going. It began to change after we came out of probation in 1993-1994, and particularly with the 1996 trip to the finals. 2003 gave him the slam dunk respect and props for good, but 1996 began the narrative of "hey, this dude is a really good coach"

We found out how good a coach he was when the probation stripped him of top level talent. And many of our frustrations before that came from the fact that we were not the only powerhouse program in the conference. Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova and later Connecticut and Pittsburgh were pretty tough competition.
 

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