JB calling into Axe about recruiting now

[Alsacs]

It's almost like certain posters ignore the last 3 regular seasons.

I mean people being concerned and looking at the program and are concerned have legitimate reasons.

The 2016 Final Four keeps us relevant nationally. Our HC is 72 years old people. He lost his top assistant and successor. JB wasn't active in daily recruiting now he has been since Hop left. Hop was overruled by JB on certain recruits to pursue. Our all zone defense turns off some elite recruits who should be in our wheelhouse.

We are going to get some nice recruits no doubt but the people who fight the people who are concerned arent helping. If people can't be concerned and worried now then when?
This isn't the idiots who complained during 30-1.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This is getting crazy, Syracuse ranks 100+ SPOTS HIGHER in PPG than Wisconsin Was 2016 and is a couple spots higher in Pomeroy! Yet, instead of any type of statistical backing of your argument you go with "I doubt Syracuse could post 50 on Villanova." Seriously? That's your argument? Some random arbitrary example that was never played out and cannot be backed or verified? This is a perfect example on the lack of objectivity on this board. The fact that you can post what you did, then grab a bunch of likes from the like minded is seriously off-putting. Wisconsin scored 4 points less per game than Syracuse this season, with less adjusted efficiency, and you get backed on that? Ridiculous.

Why do we need numbers to back up what any person who watches the game or any analyst already knows?! What sane person is going say Syracuse has better offense than Wisconsin? Would you have the gaul to tell Fraschilla or Bilas this chatting them up in an airport or something because of KenPom ranking?! How did Xavier destroy Florida St.? Florida St had better KenPom numbers. Come on.

 

[iommi]

It's almost like certain posters ignore the last 3 regular seasons.

I mean people being concerned and looking at the program and are concerned have legitimate reasons.

The 2016 Final Four keeps us relevant nationally. Our HC is 72 years old people. He lost his top assistant and successor. JB wasn't active in daily recruiting now he has been since Hop left. Hop was overruled by JB on certain recruits to pursue. Our all zone defense turns off some elite recruits who should be in our wheelhouse.

We are going to get some nice recruits no doubt but the people who fight the people who are concerned arent helping. If people can't be concerned and worried now then when?
This isn't the idiots who complained during 30-1.

But...but...2016 Final Four.

Seriously, your post should be tacked.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Triche way more than Scoop, IMO [nothing against Antonio]. At least BT looked inside, not sure that Scoop [amongst many other PGs here] did that much, if at all.

You're forgetting Scoop on the drive and dump off. He did that all the time with Rick, going back to high school.

 

[JDubbin]

If you think our offense was better than Wisconsin last year I can't disagree anymore.

Wisconsin had Ethan Happ who could post. Bronson Koenig who was a good PG, Nigel Hayes and other role players.

Syracuse offense is stagnant. How people can't be objective about this is baffling. We have no system. Fran Franscilla described our offense as simple and just let the players do their thing.

We run the same offense no matter the personnel. The more non-scoring threats we put on the floor increases the guys who flood the paint.

I don't expect a top 10 offense every year but our offense completely depends on making jump shots and that makes it hard to be a good offense.

Why do we need numbers to back up what any person who watches the game or any analyst already knows?! What sane person is going say Syracuse has better offense than Wisconsin? Would you have the gaul to tell Fraschilla or Bilas this chatting them up in an airport or something because of KenPom ranking?! How did Xavier destroy Florida St.? Florida St had better KenPom numbers. Come on.

Oh my... we are talking about offensive statistics over an entire season!!! It has nothing to do with KenPom applied individual game head-to-head match ups, how good defenseses are, game situations, foul trouble & injuries, etc. Why are you going there? Nothing I have written points to me saying that every team ranked higher in KenPom automatically wins against the lower, at all... but that's where you go. Come on, you're a better poster than that. Are you saying that Jay Bilas and Fran Fraschilla NEVER had a negative thing to say about Wisconsin's offense? I'm not arguing that Syracuse's offense was flawless, but it was not the problem for last year's team and the numbers back that.

You asked what sane person would say Syracuse's offense is better, according to both Points Per Game and KenPom they are better. I'm asking YOU, by what metric are you using to measure Wisconsin's offense as "better?" Somehow you're going to try and argue a team that scored less points per game less efficiently was better... ridiculous

 

[Alsacs]

Oh my... we are talking about offensive statistics over an entire season!!! It has nothing to do with KenPom applied individual game head-to-head match ups, how good defenseses are, game situations, foul trouble & injuries, etc. Why are you going there? Nothing I have written points to me saying that every team ranked higher in KenPom automatically wins against the lower, at all... but that's where you go. Come on, you're a better poster than that. Are you saying that Jay Bilas and Fran Fraschilla NEVER had a negative thing to say about Wisconsin's offense? I'm not arguing that Syracuse's offense was flawless, but it was not the problem for last year's team and the numbers back that.

You asked what sane person would say Syracuse's offense is better, according to both Points Per Game and KenPom they are better. I'm asking YOU, by what metric are you using to measure Wisconsin's offense as "better?" Somehow you're going to try and argue a team that scored less points per game less efficiently was better... ridiculous

I would take Wisconsin's offense 10 out of 10 times over ours.

You can disagree fine. I don't get how you can look at our offense last year and say it was great. We had good shooters who made tough shots.
We had no post game and outside of Gillon had very little driving ability.

We were a jump shooting team that had games we shot really well but the offensive philosophy is garbage and easy to defend. If you are going to tell me we will have shooters make those Andrew White tough jumpers we will score. It doesn't mean our offensive identity of ISO ball is good.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Oh my... we are talking about offensive statistics over an entire season!!! It has nothing to do with KenPom applied individual game head-to-head match ups, how good defenseses are, game situations, foul trouble & injuries, etc. Why are you going there? Nothing I have written points to me saying that every team ranked higher in KenPom automatically wins against the lower, at all... but that's where you go. Come on, you're a better poster than that. Are you saying that Jay Bilas and Fran Fraschilla NEVER had a negative thing to say about Wisconsin's offense? I'm not arguing that Syracuse's offense was flawless, but it was not the problem for last year's team and the numbers back that.

You asked what sane person would say Syracuse's offense is better, according to both Points Per Game and KenPom they are better. I'm asking YOU, by what metric are you using to measure Wisconsin's offense as "better?" Somehow you're going to try and argue a team that scored less points per game less efficiently was better... ridiculous

Let's just go our separate ways. FULLY aware what KenPom is, his metrics, and that we are talking about an entire season. My point is that statistics can be misleading and I'll stick to my guns that Bilas or Fran would laugh at the notion that Wisconsin has a worse offense than Syracuse. You can't see this with your own eyes and avoid the computers? I'll try to tweet them and I'll post the response. I think when you have some tough shotmakers like White, Battle, etc., it masks problems and can hide certain issues on the team. I WAS agreeing from the beginning that the defense was the main problem. But, it's not rocket science to see that the offense had problems too. It cost the team the Miami ACCT game.

 

[Alsacs]

Let's just go our separate ways. FULLY aware what KenPom is, his metrics, and that we are talking about an entire season. My point is that statistics can be misleading and I'll stick to my guns that Bilas or Fran would laugh at the notion that Wisconsin has a worse offense than Syracuse. You can't see this with your own eyes and avoid the computers? I'll try to tweet them and I'll post the response. I think when you have some tough shotmakers like White, Battle, etc., it masks problems and can hide certain issues on the team. I WAS agreeing from the beginning that the defense was the main problem. But, it's not rocket science to see that the offense had problems too. It cost the team the Miami ACCT game.

It's beyond obvious last year our defense was the problem.

However last year was an outlier the zone has been done a great job making Syracuse an elite defensive team with proper personnel.

However people can't be serious if they think our offensive system has been good. I am still convinced if we had a slightly above average offense we win the 2013 NC. That 2013 defense was the best we ever had.

 

[RF2044]

You're forgetting Scoop on the drive and dump off. He did that all the time with Rick, going back to high school.

That's not feeding the post, though.

That's driving and dishing.

 

[pearl31]

Our ppg isn't going to go up unless we run, which we don't do anymore. Much better to look at points per possession.

^^^^^

anyone who clings to ppg as a true offensive measurement doesn't, uh, get it

 

[pearl31]

This is getting crazy. So let's take last year Wisconsin and Greg Gard. Because Syracuse has a better Ken Pom AdjO that means Syracuse has a better offense? What is this amateur hour? Wisconsin runs beautiful stuff. Gard doesn't use Bo Ryan's system much either now, FYI.

Wisconsin runs good enough stuff to beat Villanova. I doubt Syracuse could've put 50 on Villanova. Villanova would get up on all the players and Syracuse would be grinded into a hault because there isn't enough movement and it is too dependent on ISO ball and very good PG play. Wisconsin wasn't bothered much because they run good stuff, they are sound, and have a good system as well as good talent. We aren't at their level of offensive scheme and ability.

you didn't watch Wiscy enough, then - because in several games, esp later in the year, their O made ours look like the Warriors

 

[pearl31]

Anyone who clings to the notion people can't be frustrated with the current state of the program doesn't, uh get it.

uh-huh, cuz pointing out your inability to back up an argument = I think everything is fine :crazy:

 

[Alsacs]

uh-huh, cuz pointing out your inability to back up an argument = I think everything is fine :crazy:

Our offensive system sucks IMO. It is easy to defend and doesn't change. Just because last season we had a great shooter at making tough shots in Andrew White doesn't mean our offensive system is good.
Why haven't the bigs developed. Why have our guards struggled to feed the post.
We have continued with this NBA ISO system even without having the players to make it work well.

Our offense was reliant on making a ton of the 3s that isn't a good system.

Our offense has let us down a lot more than the defense has the past 5 years.

But yeah your right. Last year the numbers said we had a better offense because Andrew White was a great shooter. It wasn't the freaking system.

 

[pearl31]

laugh at the notion that Wisconsin has a worse offense than Syracuse.

maybe in general, but not last year

 

[iommi]

I would take Wisconsin's offense 10 out of 10 times over ours.

You can disagree fine. I don't get how you can look at our offense last year and say it was great. We had good shooters who made tough shots.
We had no post game and outside of Gillon had very little driving ability.

We were a jump shooting team that had games we shot really well but the offensive philosophy is garbage and easy to defend. If you are going to tell me we will have shooters make those Andrew White tough jumpers we will score. It doesn't mean our offensive identity of ISO ball is good.

Gillon could drive but he couldn't finish. He did get to the line quite a bit. Last season's team was also a great FT shooting team, a rarity for SU. Glad we picked up Thorpe but it would be quite a feat to repeat that kind of foul shooting.

 

[pearl31]

Our offensive system sucks IMO. It is easy to defend and doesn't change. Just because last season we had a great shooter at making tough shots in Andrew White doesn't mean our offensive system is good.
Why haven't the bigs developed. Why have our guards struggled to feed the post.
We have continued with this NBA ISO system even without having the players to make it work well.

Our offense was reliant on making a ton of the 3s that isn't a good system.

Our offense has let us down a lot more than the defense has the past 5 years.

But yeah your right. Last year the numbers said we had a better offense because Andrew White was a great shooter. It wasn't the freaking system.

strawman much? You started the thread proclaiming ppg = how to measure an offense. that's an erroneous endeavor.
Syracuse has struggled w point guard play for the past 3 seasons. IMO, that is the biggest reason for our ugly, ISO-oriented offense. hopefully that can improve soon.

 

[Alsacs]

Gillon could drive but he couldn't finish. He did get to the line quite a bit. Last season's team was also a great FT shooting team, a rarity for SU. Glad we picked up Thorpe but it would be quite a feat to repeat that kind of foul shooting.

I mean it's so bleeping frustrating dealing with people who can't take opinions that they don't like.
It's emotional and freaking kills me. Different opinions should be encouraged to get true debate. Instead thinking the offense is okay just because last year we shot ridlicously well at home is bananas.

The offense has not been good.

 

[pearl31]

I mean it's so bleeping frustrating dealing with people who can't take opinions that they don't like.
It's emotional and freaking kills me. Different opinions should be encouraged to get true debate. Instead thinking the offense is okay just because last year we shot ridlicously well at home is bananas.

The offense has not been good.

are we not exchanging opinions? so what's your problem? you seem to be the one getting bent out of shape

 

[Alsacs]

I mean freaking liked Cusefan0307 who said change the standard from PPG my god you want to fight it's funny.

If you want me to say it for you again fine. The PPG standard shouldn't be the end all be all. Just look at the product on the court and realize our offense has been subpar the last 5 years.

 

[Alsacs]

are we not exchanging opinions? so what's your problem? you seem to be the one getting bent out of shape

You attack people who have critical takes. That is the frustration.

 

[iommi]

strawman much? You started the thread proclaiming ppg = how to measure an offense. that's an erroneous endeavor.
Syracuse has struggled w point guard play for the past 3 seasons. IMO, that is the biggest reason for our ugly, ISO-oriented offense. hopefully that can improve soon.

Legit question, piggybacking off the second part, whom do you think will be the PG on our roster to flip that script this year?

 

[pearl31]

I mean freaking liked Cusefan0307 who said change the standard from PPG my god you want to fight it's funny.

If you want me to say it for you again fine. The PPG standard shouldn't be the end all be all. Just look at the product on the court and realize our offense has been subpar the last 5 years.

and if you'd read my post above you'd see that I partially agreed w you. of course the offense hasn't been good, though I'd argue (due to AW or whatever) it was good enough last year

 

[bevosu]

I'll posit this (and you can shoot it down).

When you have a poor defense the opposing team's offense scores easier than they would against a tough defense...therefore you get more offensive possessions do to the fact that the opposing team not missing a shot and getting an offensive rebound would elongate their possession and lessen your team's possessions.

Making their shots gives your team with a lousy defense more offensive possessions. You don't have to depend on defensive rebounds for possessions when the opposing team makes their shots.

I'm thinking that may skew offensive efficiency stats.

Just winging it

 

[pearl31]

You attack people who have critical takes. That is the frustration.

the thing I find funniest w you is that you proclaim yourself as some kind of no-nonsense no-emotion poster and yet in reality it's quite the opposite.
I myself have a critical take, though it's not black and white and there are things to be excited about, too

 

[We Are Syracuse]

There's video poker in super markets. Oh yeah. Usually hit two places, ones Moondoggies which has the best pizza I've ever had and another Bubbies University which is a newer place and it's just a blast. Got my ass handed to me in double double bonus poker this week...

What kind of spots/casinos do you like for poker in Vegas? Headed down there from the 6th-18th. Plan on going to the casino one or two nights. Also, any good bars or clubs? Never been and really looking forward to it.