Toga
Living Legend
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- Aug 26, 2011
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40+ road games? I don't think so.An nba team?!
40+ road games? I don't think so.An nba team?!
I believe that was JB talking, not the AD.W-wait. You mean there is no secret plan to make a smooth transition? I could have sworn they told us that indeed there was an 'ironclad' plan in place.
Must've imagined it...
When he got the school put on probation. the second time he should have been shown the door.SU owes everything to JB. I disagree. The school isn't the school without what he's done for 45 years on the Hill. You are crazy to be so myopic.
What they owe him the most is a succession plan. A lifetime tenure never works. They can figure out a way to make this elegant.
Probably. By 'ironclad', he meant 'shackled in chains'.I believe that was JB talking, not the AD.
I get a bit squeamish when someone gets held up as THE reason for success. Boeheim has been the overwhelmingly biggest factor, no doubt. But others played a non-trivial role as well.
Jake C. got the program into the Big East, and moved it into the Dome -- both things JB didn't really want to do.
Dozens of great players committed their blood, sweat and tears to the program. Jim coached them, but they performed.
JB reportedly was given an elegant succession plan several years ago. A close confidant and lifelong SU guy was going to take over the program. JB had coached to the ripe age of 72. It was all there for the doing, but Jim balked. That's on him.
The last thing I want to see is SU treat Boeheim poorly in public. There is absolutely no need for that. But it really is long past time to move on and try someone new to reinvigorate things.
A few years ago I would've agreed that SU "owed" Jim, but at this point I think we're all square.
Those attendance figures of 28,000+ during the early years of the Big East were a huge factor in Syracuse success. Pearl, and then DC, Sherm, Rony, Stevie, Billy built the program, JB was along for the ride.No one can argue that JB didn't assist in elevating the program. However, just as Sherman20 pointed out, Syracuse went to the Final Four in 1975 and was already a very good regional program.
Getting into the Big East and moving to the Dome played huge roles in Syracuse's success, which had nothing to do with JB, and his lack of foresight, just as you alluded to. Additionally, the advent of ESPN, along with moving to the Dome and the BE Conference is what truly launched SU into the stratosphere and on the national scene.
Again, no doubt JB certainly played a role in the success, however, IMO, it was the the BE Conference, the Dome and ESPN that had the greater impacts.
I will not name names, but I was at a very famous NY Hs coaches kitchen table about 10 years ago or so talking ball with a couple of well-known college coaches and JB came up. The bottom line is that they believe he got by on talent in the early years, but they did give him credit for the zone. They all liked him and thought he was a good guy.Secrets revealed . We’ve never run good sets . We just out talented people
Hey guy, I assume you’re aware that we made the Final Four in 1975, the year BEFORE JB became head coach, and were on the upswing as a program under Danforth? I’m not saying that JB isn’t a better coach than Roy, but stop acting like Syracuse was a mid major.
Those attendance figures of 28,000+ during the early years of the Big East were a huge factor in Syracuse success. Pearl, and then DC, Sherm, Rony, Stevie, Billy built the program, JB was along for the ride.
I wouldn't say those things had greater impacts. Lots of other Big East schools had the benefit of the conference forming and getting nation-wide exposure via ESPN.No one can argue that JB didn't assist in elevating the program. However, just as Sherman20 pointed out, Syracuse went to the Final Four in 1975 and was already a very good regional program.
Getting into the Big East and moving to the Dome played huge roles in Syracuse's success, which had nothing to do with JB, and his lack of foresight, just as you alluded to. Additionally, the advent of ESPN, along with moving to the Dome and the BE Conference is what truly launched SU into the stratosphere and on the national scene.
Again, no doubt JB certainly played a role in the success, however, IMO, it was the the BE Conference, the Dome and ESPN that had the greater impacts.
I wouldn't say those things had greater impacts. Lots of other Big East schools had the benefit of the conference forming and getting nation-wide exposure via ESPN.
Providence had a lot of NCAA success in the 70s, and it's not like they launched into the college basketball stratosphere in the 80s like we did. And that's because they didn't have Jim Boeheim.
My point was not to diminish JB's role in any way. Merely to note that our success wasn't 100% him. Which I think you agree with. It was mostly him, but he benefited from a few other dynamics, some of which he didn't necessarily want.
Mostly I was pushing back on the notion that SU "owes" Jim. He's done remarkable things for the school and community. And the school, particularly in the past several years, has shown quite a bit of support and loyalty to him. At this point, I think the school and JB are square.
Totally get it. I would counter that the reason why the Dome was attractive to TV was the tens of thousands of fans in it. And we only got that kind of unprecedented attendance after JB recruited Pearl and we ascended to being a top 10 program. Prior to that our Dome attendance was great (16-18K) but not transcendent.It's just my opinion. I've have stated that JB contributed to the elevated success of SU.
However, I'll maintain my position as it's what I believe. There isn't any school, IMO, that got the amount of coverage, notoriety, grandeur, etc. that ESPN afforded them at the time than Syracuse University. And, that's because, no other school had the Carrier Dome and what that scene, image, etc. created for the players, recruits & masses at the time.
We haven’t had a “Pearl” like recruit in a long time. It’s tough to say who’s the best recruit we‘ve recruited since Hop left.Totally get it. I would counter that the reason why the Dome was attractive to TV was the tens of thousands of fans in it. And we only got that kind of unprecedented attendance after JB recruited Pearl and we ascended to being a top 10 program. Prior to that our Dome attendance was great (16-18K) but not transcendent.
Totally get it. I would counter that the reason why the Dome was attractive to TV was the tens of thousands of fans in it. And we only got that kind of unprecedented attendance after JB recruited Pearl and we ascended to being a top 10 program. Prior to that our Dome attendance was great (16-18K) but not transcendent.
It has always his choice to stay. Supposedly once had an NBA coaching offer? Then and now could have become an analyst on tv/cable. We don’t owe him for his self imposed hometown discountHe is pretty heavily underpaid relative to performance, maybe not the last 9 years, but for the 20+ years after his first FF, he was getting paid like a mid major to coach a leading D1 program
Oh, I’m not saying we owe him, I’m just saying that he has been underpaid for a while and that he is now performing to that level. If we want to get a top tier guy, it isn’t going to be for 2 million a yearIt has always his choice to stay. Supposedly once had an NBA coaching offer? Then and now could have become an analyst on tv/cable. We don’t owe him for his self imposed hometown discount
That and a few minutes of likening Colgate to the 2017 Golden State WarriorsThat presser was 10 minutes of shrugged shoulders and "eh, what can you do?".
I've been watching SU hoops for (well forever) and that was the most inept offensive and defensive effort I've ever seen. Passionless.
One observation regarding your 2nd sentence. Like the majority of coaches he leveraged that FF for more $, what he thought was a more favorable situation and university to immediately leave SU too.Neither of you are correct. SU owes JB a ton, but not everything. We made a FF with JBs predecessor. Any school who thinks it owes everything to an individual is in for trouble, which is where we seem to be with the basketball program, sadly.
They owe him a succession plan? What about the one in place he blew up ?