JB's Presser after St Johns

[tipphill]

This is what happens when loyalty doens't matter. You bring in 2 free agents who obviously, don't care about being loyal to the two programs they left behind. Then you give them the reigns and you forget about the players you recruited and put time in to the program. It's pretty easy to lose control of the ship. When you're weak at guard and Gillon and Howard have the ball in their hands for the majority of the game, you're in trouble. Gillon didn't run any offense, just dribbled all night. When Howard came back in all he did was jack jump shots and try a hot dog dunk move. Howard is a problem on this team. He only cares about himself. This team may not win 10 games this year. Athletic teams will take them apart defensively and completely stop our offense. Whitlock better think twice about the price plan he has in place for basketball tickets next year.

great observation!!!!i never looked at that way

 

[cuseguy]

What is it that makes you a fan, again? Is there anything you like?

Been a dedicated fan for many years. Don't even suggest I'm not a huge fan. Not for a second. Just telling like it is. Who made you the Grand Wizard?

 

[realorange]

Yeah it was laced with sarcasm...

Where was the sarcasm??

 

[realorange]

I commented a couple weeks ago that there might be some dissension on this team when it started to look like there was little chemistry showing. Hoopupstate and VBOF both are seeing pieces of that.

It's obvious that JB is disheartened at the lack of progress of this team. There is adequate talent and in some cases, exceptional abilities present. But at this point there is no team.

It might have been fools gold when we brought in White and Gillon. Or perhaps as was suggested, that they were given too much of the "team". Both are acceptable as backups off the bench, but neither have a good feel for how things are done in the Syracuse system. Topping that was their displacement of players who have put in time to be progressing as valued parts of the team.

I think we would have been better off starting Lydon, Roberson, Coleman, Battle and Howard and maybe still should. Roby is totally disillusioned at this point and Howard is frustrated with his own play as well as the team's.

There are no easy answers, but I still believe this team can find some cohesiveness IF they and the staff are willing to be honest about the abilities and willingness to play together of each player and combinations of them.

LGO

 

[tbonezone]

"Booing your own team? A group of teenagers? Stupid x2."

whew 8 pages ! ok so we've now come full circle to back to the original thread... JB's post pressers.

 

[OHIORANGES]

I'm not sure this team is as talented as he thought.

Really?
You sure?

 

[CuseCPT]

Publicly bad mouthing players and yanking them off the court for small mistakes motivates them and builds character but fans booing them is an outrage. Got it.

 

[Alsacs]

Publicly bad mouthing players and yanking them off the court for small mistakes motivates them and builds character but fans booing them is an outrage. Got it.

You missed the memo JB is god. Just because he has been loyal to the program we can't keep it
real.
Everyone but the person the preseason awards
are named after love and appreciate JB.
JB has done more than any of us can thank him for
but he isn't perfect and calling out these mistakes is fair.
JB always calls our his own guys. He can do it because he is a HOFer but outside of Calhoun not many of these HOF coaches K/Pitino/Roy/Izzo do that every game. I mean JB has a right to do that but saying fans booing is the worst thing when their own coach is tough in the press doesn't anger them.

 

[Newhouser]

When TT fouled out, the game was already uptempo and Coleman and White couldn't get up and down the court. SJU has quickness at every position. I don't think the team quit but individual players made errors and showed poor effort at times. It seemed to me that their desperation eventually led to exhaustion mentally as much as physically.

I was surprised at the athletic difference. They seemed quicker and playing higher than us. Playing White and Coleman together is not going to work. Both get exposed for their lack of explosiveness. DJC had decent numbers but all his points were off the work of others setting him up for lay-ups. Any resistance at all and he can't get his shot to the rim.

 

[HakAttack]

If Boheim isn't smart enough to play M2M with this group then he's the most stubborn guy I've ever seen. And it's killing this team.

 

[cuseguy]

Really?
You sure?

Yeah, pretty sure.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Someone said something about calling a spade a spade. Let me give that a shot.

Now there's no agreement on what the term "azzhole" actually means. But most people know one when they see one.

Not cheering is one thing. Booing is quite another. Being frustrated doesn't give you a license to behave like as azzhole. This is a home crowd at a college basketball game.

Those SU fans that booed that team tonight are azzholes.

Didn't you want people to act mature? Calling people azzholes is not very mature in my opinion...

 

[AirForceOrange]

I think JB thought what he saw on paper for this team was a winning formula: two 5th year grad transfers with experience to make up for the losses of Cooney and G; three players who were good shooters (Lydon, White and Gillon); a more experienced Howard who could run the point; exceptional speed in Gillon; two good freshmen who could contribute; a 5th year senior at center; a rising star in Lydon; a 7-2 shot-blocker to anchor the zone; and a tenacious rebounder in Robo who finally came around in last year's tournament.

What he now sees, however, is: two 5th year grad transfers whose experience wasn't formed in JB's system; shooters who have proven to be streaky and unreliable; a more experienced Howard who is nevertheless prone to lapses and is not totally ready for the pressure of directing the offense; speed in Gillon that tries to do too much; two good freshmen who contribute sporadically at the moment; a 5th year senior at center who has stone hands and misses bunnies; a rising star who has trouble taking an aggressive role; a 7-2 center on IR; and a fragile senior (Robo) whose performance is unreliable. No cohesiveness, no chemistry, no leadership, no growth through the ranks that it evidently takes to play JB's game; and no Keita or Scoop on the floor to direct traffic and encourage younger players.

So if the grad transfer experiment was made as a way for SU to match the UK/Duke/UNC one-and-done recruiting, it doesn't look as if it's going to work. SU needs to continue to home-grow second-tier talent (read: players who know better than to jump to the draft in 1-2 years) if it's going to play the way it has in the past. SU has 8-player depth this year, but only on paper, which is the real punishment of the NCAA's ban -- JB doesn't have the 13 players he needs to extract the 7 best, play them, and either red-shirt some of the rest or leave them on the bench to better mesh with a future team. He just doesn't have that option now, and this "paper team" is crumpling before our eyes. To paraphrase Robin Williams' Alladin: Unlimited aptitude . . . itty-bitty achievement.-VBOF

this is the perfect explanation...

 

[CuseCPT]

DJC had decent numbers but all his points were off the work of others setting him up for lay-ups. Any resistance at all and he can't get his shot to the rim.

Respectfully, what exactly is the problem with him getting set up by others? The points count just the same as if he takes a bad shot he creates on his own. Granted the latter seems to be what our offense is based on, so what do I know?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Talk about drama. A "systemic" failure"?

Recruiting? Coaching? Offense and Defensive Schemes? Assistants? Trainers? The whole system collapsing?

Yes. That's what I'm seeing.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I commented a couple weeks ago that there might be some dissension on this team when it started to look like there was little chemistry showing. Hoopupstate and VBOF both are seeing pieces of that.

It's obvious that JB is disheartened at the lack of progress of this team. There is adequate talent and in some cases, exceptional abilities present. But at this point there is no team.

It might have been fools gold when we brought in White and Gillon. Or perhaps as was suggested, that they were given too much of the "team". Both are acceptable as backups off the bench, but neither have a good feel for how things are done in the Syracuse system. Topping that was their displacement of players who have put in time to be progressing as valued parts of the team.

I think we would have been better off starting Lydon, Roberson, Coleman, Battle and Howard and maybe still should. Roby is totally disillusioned at this point and Howard is frustrated with his own play as well as the team's.

There are no easy answers, but I still believe this team can find some cohesiveness IF they and the staff are willing to be honest about the abilities and willingness to play together of each player and combinations of them.

LGO

Good post. I'm not sure what is going on but right now it's an epidemic for the team. NOBODY can play defense and the offense is still garbage. The only thing that looks somewhat decent on offense is TT or Lydon in the high post. Otherwise the threes mostly go in on chucks frankly either from ISO or one pass.

Jake and others have pointed to Gillon/White truly being chemistry problems and parts who don't fit. Why wouldn't White want to go a place to get him to the league? I just don't think he's that good frankly. In a player driven offense where you have to beat your man to make a play he just can't against guys who are decent athletes. His footspeed isn't that quick and he isn't explosive at all. I think he and Gillon are good guys and good teammates. It worked at Louisville with the mercenaries. Those guys were all flying high before the ban. If there is a malcontent or a kid with bad attitude it's Howard. I feel bad how things have declined with Roberson.

The coaches aren't reaching the kids. Whether it is the method, the positions they are putting the players in, whatever. To me it is clear they aren't buying in. I think they feel that whatever is being taught isn't working and we saw the culmination of that last night where the effort goes out the window and they truly looked defeated. Now the players must play better but at this point I'm not sure how the blame should be parceled out. The coaches are the ones who get paid and are the ones who brought these kids in. The staff has to evaluate better and 'reload' better but I'm tired of that rant.

As for Hopkins; he may say all of this 'music to my ears' for most of us in terms of changing up the system but if he is the one mostly running practice it seems like his understanding of fundamentals/M2M offense/ M2M defensive principles have eroded also. If the change to Hopkins still happens I hope an assistant from outside the program will come in to offer a fresh perspective. For a few years now the team's ability to play against M2M with decent athletes has steadily gone down the toilet.

 

[doc05]

Maybe I'm just being a grouch, but Howard retweets A LOT of stuff on twitter - if the Cuse basketball account posts a stat about him, he retweets it, if they post a highlight of a play he made, he retweets it - that's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Lydon doesn't use Twitter at all during the season - Robey doesn't use it - AW3 doesn't use it during the season, which I prefer. Then Gillon goes off on his rant the other day about the fans criticizing him. I don't know, maybe i'm being picky, but to me these guys don't have their focus in the right places.

One thing I noticed -- when Gillon came aboard and there were questions about who would start, he retweeted someone stating that he projects to be the starter. This was over the summer. Now I know that could be benign, but at the time, I just found it odd that he would retweet that given the obvious need of team camaraderie with new players in the mix.

 

[iommi]

One thing I noticed -- when Gillon came aboard and there were questions about who would start, he retweeted someone stating that he projects to be the starter. This was over the summer. Now I know that could be benign, but at the time, I just found it odd that he would retweet that given the obvious need of team camaraderie with new players in the mix.

I interviewed Gillon right after he signed. It was a phone interview and I brought up the issue of his role:

Q: You were predominantly a starter this past season at Colorado State (Gillon started in 26 of 32 games) after being named the Mountain West sixth man of the year the prior season. Does it matter to you whether you start or come off the bench for Syracuse?

A: I always have seen myself as a starter. I make the most of it when I do come off the bench but this is my last year and I want to have the best role I can. In my eyes that's being a starter and (playing) big minutes.

I have to say his tone was very strong here. He sounded very adamant that he wanted to start and expected to start. I did think it was interesting at the time, so you are onto something here.

 

[RF2044]

I think JB thought what he saw on paper for this team was a winning formula: two 5th year grad transfers with experience to make up for the losses of Cooney and G; three players who were good shooters (Lydon, White and Gillon); a more experienced Howard who could run the point; exceptional speed in Gillon; two good freshmen who could contribute; a 5th year senior at center; a rising star in Lydon; a 7-2 shot-blocker to anchor the zone; and a tenacious rebounder in Robo who finally came around in last year's tournament.

What he now sees, however, is: two 5th year grad transfers whose experience wasn't formed in JB's system; shooters who have proven to be streaky and unreliable; a more experienced Howard who is nevertheless prone to lapses and is not totally ready for the pressure of directing the offense; speed in Gillon that tries to do too much; two good freshmen who contribute sporadically at the moment; a 5th year senior at center who has stone hands and misses bunnies; a rising star who has trouble taking an aggressive role; a 7-2 center on IR; and a fragile senior (Robo) whose performance is unreliable. No cohesiveness, no chemistry, no leadership, no growth through the ranks that it evidently takes to play JB's game; and no Keita or Scoop on the floor to direct traffic and encourage younger players.

So if the grad transfer experiment was made as a way for SU to match the UK/Duke/UNC one-and-done recruiting, it doesn't look as if it's going to work. SU needs to continue to home-grow second-tier talent (read: players who know better than to jump to the draft in 1-2 years) if it's going to play the way it has in the past. SU has 8-player depth this year, but only on paper, which is the real punishment of the NCAA's ban -- JB doesn't have the 13 players he needs to extract the 7 best, play them, and either red-shirt some of the rest or leave them on the bench to better mesh with a future team. He just doesn't have that option now, and this "paper team" is crumpling before our eyes. To paraphrase Robin Williams' Alladin: Unlimited aptitude . . . itty-bitty achievement.-VBOF

Great post.

 

[realorange]

I know some of you don't like the way Howard is playing and I have to agree. But I think he is capable of more than he's showing.

Simple question:

How much of the problems we see are Frank's responsibility and how much of it is the rest of the team not moving/being in position to take a pass or giving any kind of meaningful help?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I know some of you don't like the way Howard is playing and I have to agree. But I think he is capable of more than he's showing.

Simple question:

How much of the problems we see are Frank's responsibility and how much of it is the rest of the team not moving/being in position to take a pass or giving any kind of meaningful help?

60/40. I see Frank trying to do too much or making mistakes, but I also see a lot of missed shots that should be assists for Frank.

 

[pearl31]

60/40. I see Frank trying to do too much or making mistakes, but I also see a lot of missed shots that should be assists for Frank.

yeah, it's both - and I think more than missed shots even, it's guys not moving off the ball and not making themselves available in good spots