John Wildhack joins Orange Nation today at 12:15

[dan7800]

My prediction. We somehow sneak in the tourney next year. Red gets some huge extension, and SU is stuck with him for the next 5 years (basically he pulls a Dino like move).

 

[dan7800]

Are NIT home games considered meaningful?

You need to think realistically and not be overly optimistic. Maybe a .500 record overall.

 

[gmoney44]

JB retirement wasn't JW fault. His hands were tied and JB was a total arse. He had to be dragged out. Jim was horrible in the end. Blaming that clown show on JW is completely wrong.

There is plenty of blame to go around on this shyt show we are witnessing. JB, JW, KS and the board are all responsible for this epic fall from grace.

In my opinion Red doesn’t deserve any blame. It’s not his fault he was offered a job he isn’t remotely qualified for. He got life altering money to take a beating for three years. I’d do it to if I were him.

 

[MSOrange]

I'm sorry, but on paper this was a good team!

Yes, JJ got injured and Freeman got injured and shut it down. Both were McDonald's AAs!

Lampkin - 3 times in the NCAAs. Cuffe was good enough to get a scholarship to Kansas.

The other guys were stars at their lower level schools, just like Elijah Hughes, Andrew White, Alan Griffin, and several other guys who were big contributors for us as transfers. Yes, Choppa was mishandled and shut it down.

There's no way the talent level was that of a 20 loss team. It clearly was good enough for 20+ wins.

Agree, I don't think this was a 20 loss team but I'm going to have to push back at some of your points. I don't think we were a 20 win team at all. JJ had been in college for 2 years prior to this season and now 3 years. At some point, you are what you are in college and being a McD AA doesn't matter. Not all high school stars become college stars, and I think it's fair to say he's not good enough to be someone you want to build around. And I admit I'm guilty of holding onto high school production too long for guys also.

Lampkin had a better supporting cast that he did here at his previous stops to get those 3 NCAAs.

Andrew White came from Nebraska and Alan Griffin from Illinois, not lower level conferences. I know people like to crap on the Big 10 here, but those are hardly the same as Hofstra and Delaware. Although to be fair, I think Davis role changed what was projected after Donnie got hurt. But even then, I'd say Carlos and Davis were good players at their previous schools, but not really stars.

 

[Scooch]

My prediction. We somehow sneak in the tourney next year. Red gets some huge extension, and SU is stuck with him for the next 5 years (basically he pulls a Dino like move).

Sneaking into the tourney is not the same as Dino winning 10 games, something SU football has only done a handful of times in its history.

Red ain't getting an extension for sneaking into the tourney.

People really have lost their minds.

 

[Scooch]

Agree, I don't think this was a 20 loss team but I'm going to have to push back at some of your points. I don't think we were a 20 win team at all. JJ had been in college for 2 years prior to this season and now 3 years. At some point, you are what you are in college and being a McD AA doesn't matter. Not all high school stars become college stars, and I think it's fair to say he's not good enough to be someone you want to build around. And I admit I'm guilty of holding onto high school production too long for guys also.

Lampkin had a better supporting cast that he did here at his previous stops to get those 3 NCAAs.

Andrew White came from Nebraska and Alan Griffin from Illinois, not lower level conferences. I know people like to crap on the Big 10 here, but those are hardly the same as Hofstra and Delaware. Although to be fair, I think Davis role changed what was projected after Donnie got hurt. But even then, I'd say Carlos and Davis were good players at their previous schools, but not really stars.

Yep, the notion that this could have been a 20 win team is preposterous. This roster is a mishmash of deeply flawed players.

 

[Newhouser]

My prediction. We somehow sneak in the tourney next year. Red gets some huge extension, and SU is stuck with him for the next 5 years (basically he pulls a Dino like move).

I think we don't make the tournament but win close to 20 games. Citing massive improvement and meaningful ( bubble games) games Wildhack gives red year 4.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think we don't make the tournament but win close to 20 games. Citing massive improvement and meaningful ( bubble games) games Wildhack gives red year 4.

Some of you are really trying to gaslight the rest of us here.

 

[Scooch]

Some of you are really trying to gaslight the rest of us here.

They're just being petulant idiots. Or they're trolling.

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB retirement wasn't JW fault. His hands were tied and JB was a total arse. He had to be dragged out. Jim was horrible in the end. Blaming that clown show on JW is completely wrong.

Well, you might not blame him for Boeheim's behavior, but it portrayed him as a weak and ineffective "leader".

 

[Cusefan95]

Sneaking into the tourney is not the same as Dino winning 10 games, something SU football has only done a handful of times in its history.

Red ain't getting an extension for sneaking into the tourney.

People really have lost their minds.

The bigger problem is that the athletic department has been run in a way that has absolutely incinerated any good will or benefit of the doubt from the fan base. It’s great that you’re willing to still give some benefit of the doubt, but I’m not. I think we all agree a solid NCAA birth buys Red more time, and not getting in dooms him. I’d hope sneaking in to a last four in bid and losing isn’t enough to justify keeping Red - but there’s been far too many mind-boggling, clearly political decisions that have been made for me to feel very confident about that. And if we are honest, at my least charitable moments I wouldn’t be willing to grant that an NIT bid wouldn’t be enough - the Syracuse track record is not one which inspires confidence.

We did have people freaking out that if Syracuse would sneak into a bowl game in 2023, that would be adequate for the school to keep Dino. And that wasn’t correct. So people are probably erring on the side of thinking Red has more leash than he actually does - but again, that’s the fan mentality Syracuse has earned.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sneaking into the tourney is not the same as Dino winning 10 games, something SU football has only done a handful of times in its history.

Red ain't getting an extension for sneaking into the tourney.

People really have lost their minds.

No, they're just afraid because they know how long the Administration will tolerate someone who is not really getting the job done.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yep, the notion that this could have been a 20 win team is preposterous. This roster is a mishmash of deeply flawed players.

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before.

 

[Cusefan95]

Well, you might not blame him for Boeheim's behavior, but it portrayed him as a weak and ineffective "leader".

I think the way that Syracuse is run means the AD is always in a weak position. The “loyal” ones who stay like Jake and JW look weak as a result. It’s also part of why a guy like Mark Coyle beat feet outta central NY as fast as he could.

I lean towards the idea that the type of person who can “succeed” as the Syracuse AD is the type of person who can handle being largely powerless - since that’s a definitionally weak person, our AD is usually a weak leader. Sometimes we get one like Doc, who manages to combine weak leadership with delusions of grandeur - and boy is that a hell of a ride.

 

[Scooch]

The bigger problem is that the athletic department has been run in a way that has absolutely incinerated any good will or benefit of the doubt from the fan base. It’s great that you’re willing to still give some benefit of the doubt, but I’m not. I think we all agree a solid NCAA birth buys Red more time, and not getting in dooms him. I’d hope sneaking in to a last four in bid and losing isn’t enough to justify keeping Red - but there’s been far too many mind-boggling, clearly political decisions that have been made for me to feel very confident about that. And if we are honest, at my least charitable moments I wouldn’t be willing to grant that an NIT bid wouldn’t be enough - the Syracuse track record is not one which inspires confidence.

We did have people freaking out that if Syracuse would sneak into a bowl game in 2023, that would be adequate for the school to keep Dino. And that wasn’t correct. So people are probably erring on the side of thinking Red has more leash than he actually does - but again, that’s the fan mentality Syracuse has earned.

Can you expand on these "far too many mind-boggling, clearly political decisions that have been made for me to feel very confident about that."?

Personally, there are 2 things that I strongly disagreed with over the past few seasons. One, Boeheim should have been pushed out after the 2016 Final Four due to him getting a second probation. Two, keeping Dino in 2023.

 

[kingtidge]

Sneaking into the tourney is not the same as Dino winning 10 games, something SU football has only done a handful of times in its history.

Red ain't getting an extension for sneaking into the tourney.

People really have lost their minds.

I think people just don't trust the school's decisions at this point.

i.e.
Let's say the performance is mediocre but not great next year with a 19 or 20-win season (bubble or NIT) and the school thinks that they can save another million or 2 by extending Red a 4th season, the goalposts will be moved to make that happen.

 

[Scooch]

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before.

We disagree. Judah and Brown were significantly better than anyone on the current roster. Copeland would likely be the 2nd offensive option on this year's team.

 

[MSOrange]

I think the way that Syracuse is run means the AD is always in a weak position. The “loyal” ones who stay like Jake and JW look weak as a result. It’s also part of why a guy like Mark Coyle beat feet outta central NY as fast as he could.

I lean towards the idea that the type of person who can “succeed” as the Syracuse AD is the type of person who can handle being largely powerless - since that’s a definitionally weak person, our AD is usually a weak leader. Sometimes we get one like Doc, who manages to combine weak leadership with delusions of grandeur - and boy is that a hell of a ride.

Interesting point about Coyle. I am far from an insider, but I do remember reading some posts from those who usually have solid info that while it doesn't sound like the internal politics were the primary reason Coyle left, it did factor into his decision some.

 

[Scooch]

I think people just don't trust the school's decisions at this point.

i.e.
Let's say the performance is mediocre but not great next year with a 19 or 20-win season (bubble or NIT) and the school thinks that they can save another million or 2 by extending Red a 4th season, the goalposts will be moved to make that happen.

I don't buy it. Attendance is going to be atrocious next season unless we bring in a couple of actual stars via the portal. The powers that be can do simple math. They're not "saving" a million bucks when we see attendance decline by thousands every game.

 

[kingtidge]

I don't buy it. Attendance is going to be atrocious next season unless we bring in a couple of actual stars via the portal. The powers that be can do simple math. They're not "saving" a million bucks when we see attendance decline by thousands every game.

Yes, that assumes some sort of decent-looking portal activity and Melo buzz/cash infusuon gets people re-engaged and season tix renewals to acceptable level and butts in the seats (a big IF.)

I have been saying for a while now that if season tix renewals are in the crapper and the actual gameday attendances follow the same trendlines of 4-7K per game, the maths will make the decision for them. That would be a revenue trainwreck.

Al I am saying is if we're a mediocre team and we can find a way to keep Red and do it on the cheap for another year, we will. That will likely be hard to do, tho.

Guiding Priorities:
1. Cheap
2. Winning

 

[MSOrange]

Some of you are really trying to gaslight the rest of us here.

I don't really have the energy to check, but I'm guessing it's many of the same who insisted Dino was going to be retained once he got 6 wins. Although I'm not surprised, I'm not thrilled about the decision to keep Red either. But I feel confident that if we're not safely in the NCAA tournament next season, Red will be gone. If I'm wrong, I'll be back to bump this post and own it.

 

[Cusefan95]

Can you expand on these "far too many mind-boggling, clearly political decisions that have been made for me to feel very confident about that."?

Personally, there are 2 things that I strongly disagreed with over the past few seasons. One, Boeheim should have been pushed out after the 2016 Final Four due to him getting a second probation. Two, keeping Dino in 2023.

You hit the big ones. Every decision related to JB since 2016 qualifies (which means that alone is a decent list). I’d add keeping GRob for 2008 - while that’s long ago with an entirely different administration, that Syracuse keep making decisions like that (like with Dino) is why I say this is a deep cultural issue and not a personnel issue. I think Marrone and Coyle both realized that and it contributed to why they left.

I’ll also comment that in a vacuum, I could defend retaining Dino for 2023. When that decision was made, I played devils advocate and defended it on these boards - it was not a popular position. That I felt that way about Dino and am astonished anyone can defend keeping Red is part of why I think Syracuse has been burning through good will at a rapid pace - while I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on Dino, I’m not with Red. And in retrospect, I regret defending the administration for retaining Dino for 2023 because it does fit in a broader pattern of a focus on cost control, a lack of focus on competitiveness, and fear of any change which appear to define the athletic department.

 

[RyanCuse44]

Can’t wait to see a guy like Bryan Hodgson get hired and be successful while we wither away further into the abyss.

Sad….its just sad.

or the Drake coach

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't really have the energy to check, but I'm guessing it's many of the same who insisted Dino was going to be retained once he got 6 wins. Although I'm not surprised, I'm not thrilled about the decision to keep Red either. But I feel confident that if we're not safely in the NCAA tournament next season, Red will be gone. If I'm wrong, I'll be back to bump this post and own it.

Wildhack wants to win. Pretty sure he was always getting 3 years to turn it around. This was discussed ad nauseam when he was hired.

 

[721Comstock]

Wildhack wants to win. Pretty sure he was always getting 3 years to turn it around. This was discussed ad nauseam when he was hired.

True, but -

The nauseam back then wasn’t being directly caused by the craptitude of Red’s turrible coaching.

Yet.