John Wildhack joins Orange Nation today at 12:15

[Scooch]

Remember that at least 25% of the Power 4 teams will be bidding on the players in your last para. I have little to no confidence that this works out well.

Well then we'll know in 60 days, right?

I've been saying, repeatedly, that I really really really hope that SU understands that player compensation inflation is going to hit hard. And that all of the assurances that we have enough NIL/comp money to be competitive take that into account. I'm skeptical. But we'll know soon.

 

[pearl31]

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before

lol come on.
*maybe* with a healthy Westry and in-shape/healthy Lampkin you can say that. Maybe. And then you throw in Bell being a shell on top of that. This team was messed from the start.
Carlos/Davis/Taylor, bless their hearts, are not good enough to to be getting significant minutes for an ACC team. It was a portal failure- which yes was part of the overall coaching failure. But in any case this team has a serious dearth of talent.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don’t have an issue with bringing in mid-major talent, but they need to be 1st team all-conference and then some. There are diamonds there. They’ll be expensive, that’s the issue. The players they target will need to be high motor with demonstrated skills that complement each other.

Not some undersized SF slasher they try to shoehorn in as a guard.

Also S&C. Please get some weight on these guys.

 

[kcsu]

I'm someone who's saying that so let me expand on it...

We certainly won't know in 60 days if we're going to be comfortably in the tournament. What we will know is (a) Red's player retention ability, (b) Kline's player acquisition strategy, (c) Red's player acquisition skills, and (d) our player compensation competitiveness.

Simply put, we'll know who left, why they left, who we replaced them with, and where they came from.

If we end up with a roster of, say, Starling, Cuffe, Petar, a mid-tier power conference transfer, and a few mid/low major transfers, then we'll know that those who claim Red sucks and SU isn't "serious" about basketball were right.

If we retain Freeman and Moore, and land several high-priced, starting-caliber power conference transfers then we'll know that at least Red stopped the bleeding and we're "serious" about competing. Whether we make the tourney is a different issue.

Good post. What the off season will prove as you said is that we can retain and obtain good talent. That is job number 1. The next step is up to Red. Can he prepare them and can he coach them up. Can he become a good coach. Not necessarily great but good. Make solid decisions, get the guys to play with a high motor, teach and expect the basics on D. Run a solid O. Again, not great but solid. If he does that we can and will win. Unfortunately, I don't think Red will be able to do it. I have never and I mean never seen any coach at any level I have been involved with in my entire life manage substitutions as poorly as Red has this year. He is God awful at it and in my opinion that is something that you either have by now or don't. I just don't see Red improving much as a coach because at this point in his life he either has it or he doesn't. I hope I'm wrong because all I care about is SU doing well not who the coach is. The coach is a means to an end for me. I could care less who they are. I give Red about a 20% chance of making it.

 

[Chip]

2) The chances of hanging onto a stud for 4 years is minuscule.

Minuscule is greatly overstating it.

 

[Chip]

Sneaking into the tourney is not the same as Dino winning 10 games, something SU football has only done a handful of times in its history.

Red ain't getting an extension for sneaking into the tourney.

People really have lost their minds.

Seriously.

You extend a guy if you think you're going to lose him. I'm certain there's no fear of that in this case.

You could also extend as a reward, but it's going to take a hell of lot more than sneaking into the tourney.

 

[kingtidge]

We should just be happy we had a nice 35 yr run, considering our location.

Yes - let Shaka Smart and Marquette be the quality lake effect team.

 

[Newhouser]

I not only buy it - I am 1000% confident the administration is oblivious to the risk of a big attendance drop. I am as certain of that as I am the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. And I say that because I remember vividly reading articles where the school whined about how bad attendance was hurting the budget around 2007 - which we’d gotten to because they assumed Syracuse was a one horse town that had nothing else to do and would always support football and didn’t bother to fund it properly for 20 years.

I guarantee that if next year is a fiasco, we will be hearing that the administration is shocked and dismayed at the basketball attendance. We may even get articles about how fans not coming to see a terrible team puts the school at a competitive disadvantage financially - just like we did after the administration neglected football until the program collapsed.

We are definitely going to get some commentary about the lack of fan support for the program.

 

[Orangezoo]

here’s the benchmarks I think you have to set to see Red earn year 4.

1- top 10/15 portal class this off season
2 - top 40 Net ranking with a single digit NCAA seed
3- clear improvements on X’s and O’s to show there is a foundation of a system ( this would end up being hand in hand with 2 and 3 anyways)
4- continuity of portal success next spring if 1-3 are met. A massive drop off signaling a 1 year spending spree to save a job isn’t enough.

If I’m Red I should be every bit aiming to out perform even these 4 goals but I don’t think he deserves to stay if these 4 aren’t met. You have to show both ability and sustainability or you move on to an up and comer asap.

 

[Red2003]

Yes, we have a program management problem at the BOT level.

It's a cultural problem that is rooted in having a huge on-campus venue and a very good, winning HOF coach for 35 years at a bargain-basement price.

Cheap has worked here.

Cheap no longer works and hasn't for a number of years.

You have to spend money significantly plus NIL now, and Athletic Dept revenues have be re-invested back into the major sports without being heavily skimmed/re-allocated within the university to be competitive.

They've made some recent moves indicating they realize they need to fund the programs at much higher levels to be competitive and win.

We're at the find out stage now and will see if they will actually do what they say they will do.

I am skeptical, but we'll find out soon enough.

Too many people want to bury their head in the sand and not hear this, but they need to get it hammered home.

SMU raised 100 million in 5 days when they joined the ACC 18 months ago for NIL. 50 million from 5 donors alone. They may not even be a tourney team this year, but it did put them in the CFP at least.

Wildhack had to just go launch a whole big campaign for our entire fanbases to try to get to 50 million over the course of the year. We are not equipped right now.

 

[Red2003]

lol come on.
*maybe* with a healthy Westry and in-shape/healthy Lampkin you can say that. Maybe. And then you throw in Bell being a shell on top of that. This team was messed from the start.
Carlos/Davis/Taylor, bless their hearts, are not good enough to to be getting significant minutes for an ACC team. It was a portal failure- which yes was part of the overall coaching failure. But in any case this team has a serious dearth of talent.

I think what people get confused about with the talent is that these portal guys are fine for short amounts of time but are not meant to carry the majority of minutes or win games. There's just flashes of talent

This is why we have closed out very few games strong and have collapsed most games against teams with real talent especially during critical moments.

 

[kingtidge]

I think what people get confused about with the talent is that these portal guys are fine for short amounts of time but are not meant to carry the majority of minutes or win games. There's just flashes of talent

This is why we have closed out very few games strong and have collapsed most games against teams with real talent especially during critical moments.

You just need to get the right guys, and yes, everyone is after them.

For example, for about what we paid for Lampkin, Louisville got Chucky Hepburn.

Hepburn is not a limited minutes guy and one of the best PG's in the country.

 

[rrlbees]

Too many people want to bury their head in the sand and not hear this, but they need to get it hammered home.

SMU raised 100 million in 5 days when they joined the ACC 18 months ago for NIL. 50 million from 5 donors alone. They may not even be a tourney team this year, but it did put them in the CFP at least.

Wildhack had to just go launch a whole big campaign for our entire fanbases to try to get to 50 million over the course of the year. We are not equipped right now.

That’s a form of cherry picking. How many schools were able to do what SMU did in fundraising?

 

[Cappy3]

You just need to get the right guys, and yes, everyone is after them.

For example, for about what we paid for Lampkin, Louisville got Chucky Hepburn.

Hepburn is not a limited minutes guy and one of the best PG's in the country.

Well, you not only need the $, but the player has to want to come. We could have matched Lville’s offer to Hepburn, but doubt he would have come.

 

[kingtidge]

Well, you not only need the $, but the player has to want to come. We could have matched Lville’s offer to Hepburn, but doubt he would have come.

That is certainly a big part of it.

Ville went out and got a new coach with big buzz and threw a ton of NIL cash behind him.

We're running it back with a lame duck and are throwing some "better" NIL cash behind him, whatever that means.

Our portal results will be indicative of the program status and approach for sure.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm someone who's saying that so let me expand on it...

We certainly won't know in 60 days if we're going to be comfortably in the tournament. What we will know is (a) Red's player retention ability, (b) Kline's player acquisition strategy, (c) Red's player acquisition skills, and (d) our player compensation competitiveness.

Simply put, we'll know who left, why they left, who we replaced them with, and where they came from.

If we end up with a roster of, say, Starling, Cuffe, Petar, a mid-tier power conference transfer, and a few mid/low major transfers, then we'll know that those who claim Red sucks and SU isn't "serious" about basketball were right.

If we retain Freeman and Moore, and land several high-priced, starting-caliber power conference transfers then we'll know that at least Red stopped the bleeding and we're "serious" about competing. Whether we make the tourney is a different issue.

Yes, and we may get guys who are clearly better than the ones we acquired last year. And like every recruiting season (portal or HS), you don't get everyone. You always miss some of your targets.

Jyare Davis - leading scorer & rebounder (17 and 7) on a team who went 19-14, and sits at the border of Quad 2 and Quad 3 last year.

Jaquan Carlos - 10.4 pts, 6 assts, 2.5 TO, 2 time first team all-conference defense. 34% from three. Team rated 153 out of 362. Solidly within Quad 2.

Lucas Taylor - leading scorer for team 92 out of 362. Almost Quad 1, Sun Belt Conf. Shot 35% from three, team's leading scorer at 14.5 ppg.

Eddie Lampkin - 10 pts, 7 reb for 47th rated team out of 362. NCAA tournament 3 consecutive years with 2 different teams. Quad 1.

When we look at the cupboard this summer, this is how we should compare transfers.

 

[djcon57]

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before.

Maliq and Judah are better than anyone on the team currently

 

[Scooch]

Yes, and we may get guys who are clearly better than the ones we acquired last year. And like every recruiting season (portal or HS), you don't get everyone. You always miss some of your targets.

Jyare Davis - leading scorer & rebounder (17 and 7) on a team who went 19-14, and sits at the border of Quad 2 and Quad 3 last year.

Jaquan Carlos - 10.4 pts, 6 assts, 2.5 TO, 2 time first team all-conference defense. 34% from three. Team rated 153 out of 362. Solidly within Quad 2.

Lucas Taylor - leading scorer for team 92 out of 362. Almost Quad 1, Sun Belt Conf. Shot 35% from three, team's leading scorer at 14.5 ppg.

Eddie Lampkin - 10 pts, 7 reb for 47th rated team out of 362. NCAA tournament 3 consecutive years with 2 different teams. Quad 1.

When we look at the cupboard this summer, this is how we should compare transfers.

Three of those guys came from the CAA. That's a low major conference. Adding them was a disaster, IMHO.

 

[djcon57]

Yes, and we may get guys who are clearly better than the ones we acquired last year. And like every recruiting season (portal or HS), you don't get everyone. You always miss some of your targets.

Jyare Davis - leading scorer & rebounder (17 and 7) on a team who went 19-14, and sits at the border of Quad 2 and Quad 3 last year.

Jaquan Carlos - 10.4 pts, 6 assts, 2.5 TO, 2 time first team all-conference defense. 34% from three. Team rated 153 out of 362. Solidly within Quad 2.

Lucas Taylor - leading scorer for team 92 out of 362. Almost Quad 1, Sun Belt Conf. Shot 35% from three, team's leading scorer at 14.5 ppg.

Eddie Lampkin - 10 pts, 7 reb for 47th rated team out of 362. NCAA tournament 3 consecutive years with 2 different teams. Quad 1.

When we look at the cupboard this summer, this is how we should compare transfers.

If the coaching staff looks at players like you do, they didn't learn their lesson. You have NO DEFENSIVE METRICS OR STATS. Defense is half of the game and we've ignored it for like 5 years now

 

[PhatOrange]

I think by phrasing it that way it allows fans to create their own definition of "meaningful games" which IMO is actually worse. He could have said if we make the Sweet 16, he will stay. If we have a losing season, he will be gone. Anything in between is a gray area and will depend on a multitude of factors. That being said the likelihood of a change increases the closer he is to that bottom.

I think for a lot of fans meaningful games means Top 25 team. Playing in the First Four and losing isn't meaningful enough. Which would make fans angry if Red is retained.

There's a lot of hypotheticals. But you can't say Sweet 16 or else, then have the team go 30-3 and not make the sweet 16. You also can't back into the tournament. It's clear to me what meaningful games in March means even though there's some ambiguity.

I want a new coach and staff, with no blood ties to Syracuse, but given the circumstances I'm fine with Wildhacks comments. The problem as I see it, is that I've never missed a televised game in 40 years and now I don't even care to know when they're playing. How many 100s if not 1000s of fans are in that same boat right now? SU must be hemorrhaging money over the decline.

I'll have a morbid curiosity next season but a slow start and I'm probably out. They'll lose 1000's more fans and it'll be extremely hard to win them back.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Three of those guys came from the CAA. That's a low major conference. Adding them was a disaster, IMHO.

Well, we are currently 119th out of 362 in KenPom, so Lampkin and Taylor came from better programs than ours, and with the other two guys, they hoped they found good role players. Both had been leaders on relatively successful teams (i.e., winning records, multi-year starters, all conference honors).

 

[MSOrange]

Well, we are currently 119th out of 362 in KenPom, so Lampkin and Taylor came from better programs than ours, and with the other two guys, they hoped they found good role players. Both had been leaders on relatively successful teams (i.e., winning records, multi-year starters, all conference honors).

They haven't been good enough to beat the teams we have to compete against. Sure Red hasn't helped, but our record is the stat you need to look at.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Autry basically has to George Costanza himself.

Do the opposite of all his instincts because his instincts so far are horribly wrong.

And we will wind up with the Yankees! Good times ahead!

 

[IthacaMatt]

We should just be happy we had a nice 35 yr run, considering our location.

Yeah, like Storrs is the hotbed of anything but cow tipping.

 

[Scooch]

Well, we are currently 119th out of 362 in KenPom, so Lampkin and Taylor came from better programs than ours, and with the other two guys, they hoped they found good role players. Both had been leaders on relatively successful teams (i.e., winning records, multi-year starters, all conference honors).

Yeah, they were good players on a low major team that largely played other low major teams. It's been abundantly clear from game #1 of this season that they're not ACC-caliber players.

My point remains... We need to acquire players in the portal who have been starting and productive at Power 5 conference schools this season. I don't want to see so much as a single mid/low major player added.