John Wildhack joins Orange Nation today at 12:15

[OrangeinBoston]

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before.

Having a resumé on paper, as we found out, is meaningless. SU had one ACC-level player on the roster - Eddie. Granted, part of the blame for having a roster of mid-major players is on Red. But, I bet if we went back to when they were announced, the majority here was gushing praise on them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

True, but -

The nauseam back then wasn’t being directly caused by the craptitude of Red’s turrible coaching.

Yet.

I wouldn’t keep Red, but I understand the thinking.

 

[RyanCuse44]

Get an S&C program where guys actually gain weight and strength. What has happened the last 10+ years is subpar.

Along with a damn true PG.

 

[orangefog]

True, but -

The nauseam back then wasn’t being directly caused by the craptitude of Red’s turrible coaching.

Yet.

We were so young and naïve back then.

 

[Cusefan95]

I don't buy it. Attendance is going to be atrocious next season unless we bring in a couple of actual stars via the portal. The powers that be can do simple math. They're not "saving" a million bucks when we see attendance decline by thousands every game.

I not only buy it - I am 1000% confident the administration is oblivious to the risk of a big attendance drop. I am as certain of that as I am the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. And I say that because I remember vividly reading articles where the school whined about how bad attendance was hurting the budget around 2007 - which we’d gotten to because they assumed Syracuse was a one horse town that had nothing else to do and would always support football and didn’t bother to fund it properly for 20 years.

I guarantee that if next year is a fiasco, we will be hearing that the administration is shocked and dismayed at the basketball attendance. We may even get articles about how fans not coming to see a terrible team puts the school at a competitive disadvantage financially - just like we did after the administration neglected football until the program collapsed.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Having a resumé on paper, as we found out, is meaningless. SU had one ACC-level player on the roster - Eddie. Granted, part of the blame for having a roster of mid-major players is on Red. But, I bet if we went back to when they were announced, the majority here was gushing praise on them.

Yes, which is why the person who said, "we will know about next year in 60 days" needs to pump the brakes a bit.

 

[atlanticuse]

Mike Hopkins was Pac 12 Coach of the Year his first two years. That buys you time.

I’m voting for Red as SEC coach of the year.
Or Atlantic 10.
He’s done more for everyone else than for us.

 

[atlanticuse]

My prediction. We somehow sneak in the tourney next year. Red gets some huge extension, and SU is stuck with him for the next 5 years (basically he pulls a Dino like move).

Not true.
There’s no way we rebuild from the ground up and somehow scrap together 20 wins with Red.
There is nothing here. You can’t build a house on quicksand.

When the general contractor is an aloof goof and the architect is from the NBA.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We won 20 games last year without a C and with only 1 PF. This team has a better resume coming into the season than the one before.

Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I not only buy it - I am 1000% confident the administration is oblivious to the risk of a big attendance drop. I am as certain of that as I am the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. And I say that because I remember vividly reading articles where the school whined about how bad attendance was hurting the budget around 2007 - which we’d gotten to because they assumed Syracuse was a one horse town that had nothing else to do and would always support football and didn’t bother to fund it properly for 20 years.

I guarantee that if next year is a fiasco, we will be hearing that the administration is shocked and dismayed at the basketball attendance. We may even get articles about how fans not coming to see a terrible team puts the school at a competitive disadvantage financially - just like we did after the administration neglected football until the program collapsed.

Based on what happened with Dino last year I would not at all be surprised if we see an Interim coach if the start of the season is a turd sandwich. And the attendance has already dropped. People on the hill are aware of it now.

 

[kingtidge]

I not only buy it - I am 1000% confident the administration is oblivious to the risk of a big attendance drop. I am as certain of that as I am the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. And I say that because I remember vividly reading articles where the school whined about how bad attendance was hurting the budget around 2007 - which we’d gotten to because they assumed Syracuse was a one horse town that had nothing else to do and would always support football and didn’t bother to fund it properly for 20 years.

I guarantee that if next year is a fiasco, we will be hearing that the administration is shocked and dismayed at the basketball attendance. We may even get articles about how fans not coming to see a terrible team puts the school at a competitive disadvantage financially - just like we did after the administration neglected football until the program collapsed.

They can't be oblivious. There was plenty of gameday revenue shortfalls this year that I am sure did not go unnoticed, but they still had the benefit of the prepaid season tix at a decent level.

They are knowingly rolling the dice that the the melo buzz and (hopefully) a halfway decent portal will keep people engaged and the season tix renewals will at least be decent.

However, if the renewals are in the crapper, they will blame the fans like they did with football.

We've seen this story before.

They're nothing if not predictable.

 

[atlanticuse]

Guiding Priorities:
1. Cheap
2. Winning

These are mutually exclusive, or at least incompatible, in 2025.
This isn’t Butler 2010 or Vermont 2005. And even those teams had four year seniors.

We’re the Pittsburgh Pirates - year after year - going up against the LA Dodgers.
With only one year to scrabble together pieces and parts.

Look at what it got us this year (new reality) vs last year (when we had some pieces to work with). Wildcrack is delusional if he expects20 wins from freshmen plus random $300k players. Duke, Louisville, and others will throttle us and our undisciplined disorganized basketball.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Yes, which is why the person who said, "we will know about next year in 60 days" needs to pump the brakes a bit.

I said it and I am correct. If Red lands equal or less talent to this year’s roster, next year will be a disaster. It’s not difficult to determine if the roster will be upgraded. We will know the answer to that question in 60 days.

 

[kingtidge]

These are mutually exclusive, or at least incompatible, in 2025.
This isn’t Butler 2010 or Vermont 2005. And even those teams had four year seniors.

We’re the Pittsburgh Pirates - year after year - going up against the LA Dodgers.
With only one year to scrabble together pieces and parts.

Look at what it got us this year (new reality) vs last year (when we had some pieces to work with). Wildcrack is delusional if he expects20 wins from freshmen plus random $300k players. Duke, Louisville, and others will throttle us and our undisciplined disorganized basketball.

Yes, we have a program management problem at the BOT level.

It's a cultural problem that is rooted in having a huge on-campus venue and a very good, winning HOF coach for 35 years at a bargain-basement price.

Cheap has worked here.

Cheap no longer works and hasn't for a number of years.

You have to spend money significantly plus NIL now, and Athletic Dept revenues have to be re-invested back into the major sports to be competitive (without being heavily skimmed/re-allocated within the university.)

They've made some recent moves indicating they realize they need to fund the programs at much higher levels to be competitive and win.

We're at the find out stage now and will see if they will actually do what they say they will do.

I am skeptical, but we'll find out soon enough.

I would guess KS and the BOT think they can still siphon off the AD teet, to some degree, if at a lower rate. Meanwhile, schools committed to winning are tripple-jumping us on the checkers board with funding outlays for their major sports.

 

[dan7800]

There is plenty of blame to go around on this shyt show we are witnessing.

The only good Szmyt is Andre.

 

[dan7800]

Yes, we have a program management problem at the BOT level.

It's a cultural problem that is rooted in having a huge on-campus venue and a very good, winning HOF coach for 35 years at a bargain-basement price.

Cheap has worked here.

Cheap no longer works and hasn't for a number of years.

You have to spend money significantly now and Athletic Dept revenues have be re-invested back into the major sports without being heavily skimmed/re-allocated within the university..

Agreed. Look at even 10 years ago, the SEC was largely basically just Kentucky. Now look at all programs doing great lately. The SEC spent.

 

[MikeSU02]

Probably.

But I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the outcome "saving" Red's job being a 15-loss season.

Or that being the 12th consecutive year that our program will post double-digit losses.

Or 11 out of 12 of those years having 12+ losses.

Or 9 out of those 12 having 14+ losses.

This is my major issue with all of this.

IMO, this isn't Red just getting a third year, it's a continuation of everything since joining the ACC and/or after the 2016 FF run.

Red became Associate HC. Red is now the HC. It's been years of this. I know JB was the coach and owned the program. I even begrudgingly have relented on the end of the JB era and its length because the guy basically became SU basketball and got us a chip and five FFs. So, while I hated it, c'est la vie.

But as soon as Red became the HC, that meant it was a choice to continue without someone having the creds that JB had but implicitly want to keep on the track. I don't care what was said, thought of, etc.

I get it, easier said than done to fire Red now. Lot of money (buyout for Red, buyout for the new HC + new HC salary + on top of the NIL funds that have to be raised), has Melo's kid coming in, etc.

But don't tell me we'll be good next year. The TEN teams ahead of us in NET:

Rhode Island
UC - Santa Barbara
ETSU
Milwaukee
DePaul
Belmont
Furman
NMSU
Cornell
NDSU

I think people should have a very real fear that we are closer to where we'll eventually level out to vs getting back to our best days.

Say talent all you want, but those teams aren't rolling deep with top 100 players and loads of cash for NIL. It's coaching.

And Maliq and Judah are not on next year's roster as of now to get Red to 20 wins. Maybe he can get us back to the tourney next year. Again, as I've asked before, if you have faith in Red, are you willing to bet that we would make the NCAAT next year? I am not.

 

[wiseman3]

Has any coach ever come back from the AD having to publicly give him a vote of confidence, and end up being the long term solution as coach? I can't think of any. To me Autry being fired is inevitable, be it next year or 3 years down the line if we have a miracle season next year.

Also, the jump we'll need to make (10 more wins to even be relevant!) with a completely new roster and heavily relying on a freshman recruiting class to save you is an extremely heavy lift.

 

[Scooch]

You hit the big ones. Every decision related to JB since 2016 qualifies (which means that alone is a decent list). I’d add keeping GRob for 2008 - while that’s long ago with an entirely different administration, that Syracuse keep making decisions like that (like with Dino) is why I say this is a deep cultural issue and not a personnel issue. I think Marrone and Coyle both realized that and it contributed to why they left.

I’ll also comment that in a vacuum, I could defend retaining Dino for 2023. When that decision was made, I played devils advocate and defended it on these boards - it was not a popular position. That I felt that way about Dino and am astonished anyone can defend keeping Red is part of why I think Syracuse has been burning through good will at a rapid pace - while I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on Dino, I’m not with Red. And in retrospect, I regret defending the administration for retaining Dino for 2023 because it does fit in a broader pattern of a focus on cost control, a lack of focus on competitiveness, and fear of any change which appear to define the athletic department.

I appreciate that response and I do understand where you're coming from.

Being a private, liberal, northeast institution there's always been a tension between the academic/administrative side of the university and the realities of running a championship-caliber, D1, power conference athletics department. I do think Wildhack has walked that tightrope better than any of his predecessors, but no one is perfect.

I'll acknowledge that, even with the just launched $50M campaign, I'm still not entirely sure that SU understands that they are now a college that sponsors professional sports.

 

[Scooch]

Yes, which is why the person who said, "we will know about next year in 60 days" needs to pump the brakes a bit.

I'm someone who's saying that so let me expand on it...

We certainly won't know in 60 days if we're going to be comfortably in the tournament. What we will know is (a) Red's player retention ability, (b) Kline's player acquisition strategy, (c) Red's player acquisition skills, and (d) our player compensation competitiveness.

Simply put, we'll know who left, why they left, who we replaced them with, and where they came from.

If we end up with a roster of, say, Starling, Cuffe, Petar, a mid-tier power conference transfer, and a few mid/low major transfers, then we'll know that those who claim Red sucks and SU isn't "serious" about basketball were right.

If we retain Freeman and Moore, and land several high-priced, starting-caliber power conference transfers then we'll know that at least Red stopped the bleeding and we're "serious" about competing. Whether we make the tourney is a different issue.

 

[kcsu]

I think we don't make the tournament but win close to 20 games. Citing massive improvement and meaningful ( bubble games) games Wildhack gives red year 4.

spot on. It is the way Syracuse rolls. If Red has a decent season he will be retained. It is just how Syracuse does things. Not saying I agree but it is what it is. Look how many years Dino got. Now granted many of those years were because of a large buy out. I have no idea what Red's buyout will be after next year but if it's a number and he has a decent defendable season he will be retained.

 

[cusefan88]

Autry basically has to George Costanza himself.

Do the opposite of all his instincts because his instincts so far are horribly wrong.

 

[Scooch]

How many times do people who know have to tell us that Red's contract is not why he's being retained now, and not why he'd be retained a year from now?

 

[Willy75]

I'm someone who's saying that so let me expand on it...

We certainly won't know in 60 days if we're going to be comfortably in the tournament. What we will know is (a) Red's player retention ability, (b) Kline's player acquisition strategy, (c) Red's player acquisition skills, and (d) our player compensation competitiveness.

Simply put, we'll know who left, why they left, who we replaced them with, and where they came from.

If we end up with a roster of, say, Starling, Cuffe, Petar, a mid-tier power conference transfer, and a few mid/low major transfers, then we'll know that those who claim Red sucks and SU isn't "serious" about basketball were right.

If we retain Freeman and Moore, and land several high-priced, starting-caliber power conference transfers then we'll know that at least Red stopped the bleeding and we're "serious" about competing. Whether we make the tourney is a different issue.

Remember that at least 25% of the Power 4 teams will be bidding on the players in your last para. I have little to no confidence that this works out well.

 

[upperdeck]

We should just be happy we had a nice 35 yr run, considering our location.