John Wildhack

721Comstock

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You make some excellent points. I was speaking specifically of Syracuse returning to the triple option. I consider that a gimmick since almost no schools currently run the system but it has its principles as meat head football, which is primarily a running offense with deception. I think that’s our best way to compete with our talent and recruiting deficiencies
Yeah, no.

Even GaTech moved on from that.
Pretty much only the service academies run that now.

I’ll be the glass half full guy, but -
It seems like we’re only a handful of players on O away from being able to not suck.

Clearly we need help / depth on the O-Line.
It all starts there.
Need to get a transfer (or 2) in addition to Bleich, who can play immediately.

Next year at QB (assuming Tommy returns) we’ll have:
Tommy, JaCobian, Tex, Lamson, and hopefully a transfer.

RB room should be solid.
More so if Jarveon returns

We need at least one playmaker WR, in the AET, Ish, Custis mode.

And a solid slot WR like Briz or Erv or Riley in ‘18.
 

Orangefizz

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Yeah, no.

Even GaTech moved on from that.
Pretty much only the service academies run that now.

I’ll be the glass half full guy, but -
It seems like we’re only a handful of players on O away from being able to not suck.

Clearly we need help / depth on the O-Line.
It all starts there.
Need to get a transfer (or 2) in addition to Bleich, who can play immediately.

Next year at QB (assuming Tommy returns) we’ll have:
Tommy, JaCobian, Tex, Lamson, and hopefully a transfer.

RB room should be solid.
More so if Jarveon returns

We need at least one playmaker WR, in the AET, Ish, Custis mode.

And a solid slot WR like Briz or Erv or Riley in ‘18.
I get it that nobody likes the triple option, but I still feel it’s our best way to compete and win. Look at what Army is doing, and even what Georgia Tech did before Paul Johnson retired. If Syracuse just wants to follow and not be a trendsetter then look at what BC, Pitt and Rutgers is doing. we should have a director of transfer recruiting and hit the portal hard since this is our best way to attract highly regarded prospects.
 

Cusefan78

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I get it that nobody likes the triple option, but I still feel it’s our best way to compete and win. Look at what Army is doing, and even what Georgia Tech did before Paul Johnson retired. If Syracuse just wants to follow and not be a trendsetter then look at what BC, Pitt and Rutgers is doing. we should have a director of transfer recruiting and hit the portal hard since this is our best way to attract highly regarded prospects.
I do see your point with the triple option. Lesser ability players can win in that system. To be honest I’m a Syracuse fan no matter what they run. I just want to have a team that is respectable, Players that are disciplined, a line that isn’t a National joke, a coach that even if its fake appears to give a crap, and figure out a way to lesson the injuries.
 

FasterCuse

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Yeah, no.

Even GaTech moved on from that.
Pretty much only the service academies run that now.

I’ll be the glass half full guy, but -
It seems like we’re only a handful of players on O away from being able to not suck.

Clearly we need help / depth on the O-Line.
It all starts there.
Need to get a transfer (or 2) in addition to Bleich, who can play immediately.

Next year at QB (assuming Tommy returns) we’ll have:
Tommy, JaCobian, Tex, Lamson, and hopefully a transfer.

RB room should be solid.
More so if Jarveon returns

We need at least one playmaker WR, in the AET, Ish, Custis mode.

And a solid slot WR like Briz or Erv or Riley in ‘18.
So what you're saying is we need to recruit an entirely new offensive team outside of RB... That ain't happening by next year.
 

gmoney44

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I’m in awe of everyone’s expectations for this team in light of this year. I can’t get up that level of angst for any sporting event or team in light of the right hook the covid has taken to our society.
I’m in awe that you and a few others on this board think we are the only one’s dealing with COVID, injuries, coaching changes and opt outs. It’s not the losses as much as our “offense guru” of a head coach has for two season in a row rolled out a pile of Shyte offense. We haven’t competed for two years now and have been blown out by trash teams along the way. Dino absolutely deserves to be fired for this dog shyte program he has built. Fortunately for him SU doesn’t play big boy football and will get another season to clean up his mess.
 
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Cusepassion

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If this were year 2 of Dino’s tenure there wouldn’t be many people complaining in my opinion. We aren’t THAT far off from being respectable on offense. Like stated above we need 1-2 lineman to have an average line. Insert Bleich at guard and Illaoa at center then get a transfer tackle for Servais. QB depth will finally be good IF Tommy comes back. RB depth will be good as well.

If the young receivers can develop we will finally have some weapons. Alford, Javontae Williams, Barron, Hendrix and Courtney Jackson all have tons of untapped ponterial. Really looking forward to their offseason. Only starting receivers I would like to see back are Nykeim and AQ.

JW and HCDB aren’t going anywhere as we all know even though it’s brought up every week. If it makes anyone feel better - UGA fans are calling for Kirby Smarts job after they only beat Miss. State by 7.
 

721Comstock

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So what you're saying is we need to recruit an entirely new offensive team outside of RB... That ain't happening by next year.
No. Reading is fundamental.

Things we don’t have now, or on the way:
1 transfer QB.
1-2 transfer OL.
1 outside WR.
1 inside WR.

If you think that adding 4-5 guys out of a 22-man 2-deep is “an entire new offensive team” then that’s a you problem.

And it’s possible that the WR’s inbound already may solve for that.

Clearly, we need to add 1-2 OL and a QB.
Minimum.
 

OrangeDW

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I constantly read we need to get some transfers. But we are so abysmal, who wants to transfer here when they watch us play. Why would any recruit in their right mind watch us get shut out by a 2 win Louisville team, lose to a Duke team and decide to transfer here . Our OL hasn't been able to block Holy Cross or Colgate the past few years. I'm serious but not trying to single you out. I constantly read this and scratch my head.
So no potential transfers watched us play when we were ranked in the top 15 just two years ago?
 

FrancoPizza

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We only had 42,000 fans attend on a Friday Night for Dungey's last game. If the narrative now is that Dungey was the reason for that magical season, why didn't more fans attend Dungey's final home game?
Because attendance is a lagging indicator. Always has been. Always will be.
 

orangecuse

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I get it that nobody likes the triple option, but I still feel it’s our best way to compete and win. Look at what Army is doing, and even what Georgia Tech did before Paul Johnson retired. If Syracuse just wants to follow and not be a trendsetter then look at what BC, Pitt and Rutgers is doing. we should have a director of transfer recruiting and hit the portal hard since this is our best way to attract highly regarded prospects.
I don't know about the triple option, however, I am and always have been a fan of the freeze option. Hard to argue that SU's best teams from yesteryear, Graves, McPherson, and McNabb, etc. were running that type of O. One thing that is absolute, and that is we absolutely need to have a QB that is a true dual threat, running an RPO scheme. If nothing else, it minimizes the talent discrepancies that SU seemingly and continuously faces.

I watched a bunch of that Coastal Carolina vs. App State game yesterday on ESPN due to the cancelled Clemson/FSU game. They have a true frosh QB (yes, believe it or not a true frosh, imagine that) who ran its O to a T. He looked very comfortable in doing so, along with being quite productive, not to mention functional. App St. is a decent team and one that although not ranked, was in the "receiving votes" category. Coastal, is ranked #15 in the land. Now, I have no idea if that ranking is legit or not, but if a Coastal Carolina can be ranked in the Top 15, and run an offense with a true frosh, it makes Dino look incompetent in my opinion. Especially, when he keeps harping the "youth" excuses for being a significant contributing factor in his team's epic failure this season.
 
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OrangeinBoston

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I don't know about the triple option, however, I am and always have been a fan of the freeze option. Hard to argue that SU's best teams from yesteryear, Graves, McPherson, and McNabb, etc. were running that type of O. One thing that is absolute, and that is we absolutely need to have a QB that is a true dual threat, running an RPO scheme. If nothing else, it minimizes the talent discrepancies that SU seemingly and continuously faces.

I watched a bunch of that Coastal Carolina vs. App State game yesterday on ESPN due to the cancelled Clemson/FSU game. They have a true frosh QB (yes, believe it or not a true frosh, imagine that) who ran its O to a T. He looked very comfortable in doing so, along with being quite productive, not to mention functional. App St. is a decent team and one that although not ranked, was in the "receiving votes" category. Coastal, is ranked #15 in the land. Now, I have no idea if that ranking is legit or not, but if a Coastal Carolina can be ranked in the Top 15, and run an offense with a true frosh, it makes Dino look incompetent in my opinion. Especially, when he keeps harping the "youth" excuses for being a significant contributing factor in his team's epic failure this season.
There are MANY examples of true frosh QBs being functional. Dino's excuses just down't hold water.
 

JoeCollege

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A lot of students are taking GAP years but the only reason to really do it is you want to push the clock back on the economy recovering and having a better job market.

Distance learning really isn’t that much different than in person teaching in college. It’s all Socratic method in college nowadays.
You teach yourself and how motivated the student is determines how well they do.

If I were of college age now I would either demand college cost be a lot cheaper in distance learning setting or just sit out the year. Paying full price right now is theft.
It's VASTLY different. I teach at a college and I have a kid on college. Majority of students detest distance learning. Although to be fair, a majority of grey-haired profs have no idea how to teach online. Still, the kids report feeling disengagd and disinterested. They tend to want the college experience we all knew and mostly loved. Maybe some 18 year olds have the foresight to take a gap year in HOPES that the economy is better with an extra 12 months, but the majority are just too smart to pay college prices to take courses on a computer at their dining room tables. Even bargain-priced (compared to SU or even a SUNY) community colleges are seeing a huge drop off in enrollment. My institution's spring enrollment currently is down over a third from where it was last year.
 

Scooch

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Mac took over a program with a brand new, dynamic, revolutionary domed stadium.

He also did not have to compete in a conference like the ACC.

And it still took him six years - and he was on the hot seat as the 1987 season began

You’re right.

The 1980s were easier for SU.

We have just now renovated the Dome. We are just now planning to invest millions in the football complex.

It will take longer than six years.

You don’t start over again - again.

I keep Babers for at least two more years.
We’re not really disagreeing. He should absolutely get next year. If we have another horrific 1-2 win year in 2021 then I don’t see him being brought back. 3-5 wins is a danger zone, but we’ll need to understand the context of that non-bowl performance. I wouldn’t necessarily guarantee him a 2022 season no matter what, but I suspect he’ll get it, unless there’s another collapse.

At worst, Dino is getting six years. I’m not going to weep for him if that’s not enough for him to turn the program into a more consistent winner.
 

SUbear

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No. Reading is fundamental.

Things we don’t have now, or on the way:
1 transfer QB.
1-2 transfer OL.
1 outside WR.
1 inside WR.

If you think that adding 4-5 guys out of a 22-man 2-deep is “an entire new offensive team” then that’s a you problem.

And it’s possible that the WR’s inbound already may solve for that.

Clearly, we need to add 1-2 OL and a QB.
Minimum.
I agree we need help in those positions, I do not agree that transfer players are the answer and that we would be winning again if we got those transfers. Transfers might help a little but would not solve the problems overall.
 

MikeSU02

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I've been dipping in and out of this thread. Two things:

1) Personally, I think Dino should have at least two more years. We don't have the luxury to re-load, ever, and need to build with consistency on top of the upside down year this is.

2) Tabling my personal preference, who are we getting if we fire Dino now and how are we paying for it and what will that new coach's salary be / assistant coaches budget be?

To me, everything else is just venting until someone can tell me, for certain, what the answers are to the second point. And I get it, this stinks, but the program people want us to be and the program that we are, in terms of resources, seems to be seriously out of whack.
 

Alsacs

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I've been dipping in and out of this thread. Two things:

1) Personally, I think Dino should have at least two more years. We don't have the luxury to re-load, ever, and need to build with consistency on top of the upside down year this is.

2) Tabling my personal preference, who are we getting if we fire Dino now and how are we paying for it and what will that new coach's salary be / assistant coaches budget be?

To me, everything else is just venting until someone can tell me, for certain, what the answers are to the second point. And I get it, this stinks, but the program people want us to be and the program that we are, in terms of resources, seems to be seriously out of whack.
If this weren’t year 5 I agree with everything you just said.

Dino isn’t going to turn this around in 1 year.
If we looked like a functional team I would shut up. I am being a realist.
This staff sucks more than we need better players.

We don’t have talent to be a top 25 team okay.
We have talent to not look as poorly offensively as we have. That is coaching.
These coaches need to adjust to their strengths of their roster. Watching Belichick each week adopt the gameplan spoils a fan.
He doesn’t win every week but good coaching covers up talent deficiency.
 

MikeSU02

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If this weren’t year 5 I agree with everything you just said.

Dino isn’t going to turn this around in 1 year.
If we looked like a functional team I would shut up. I am being a realist.
This staff sucks more than we need better players.

We don’t have talent to be a top 25 team okay.
We have talent to look as poorly offensively as we have. That is coaching.
These coaches need to adjust to their strengths of their roster. Watching Belichick each week adopt the gameplan spoils a fan.
He doesn’t win every week but good coaching covers up talent deficiency.
Again, that's not my POV, but I get it, for sure. Lot of issues, no doubt.

But who do we get? If someone can give me a legitimate pool of candidates' names, happy to say if I feel one is better than Dino. I just don't think it's realistic.
 

SUbear

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I've been dipping in and out of this thread. Two things:

1) Personally, I think Dino should have at least two more years. We don't have the luxury to re-load, ever, and need to build with consistency on top of the upside down year this is.

2) Tabling my personal preference, who are we getting if we fire Dino now and how are we paying for it and what will that new coach's salary be / assistant coaches budget be?

To me, everything else is just venting until someone can tell me, for certain, what the answers are to the second point. And I get it, this stinks, but the program people want us to be and the program that we are, in terms of resources, seems to be seriously out of whack.
I agree he has at least next year and maybe the year after, however this is because of monetary considerations, on the field performance does not rate a continuation. I had hope that he would get us back to competitive. I am no longer thinking that. Last year was a disappointment and this year is an unmitigated disaster. Or for the covid apologists a mitigated disaster.
 

MikeSU02

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I agree he has at least next year and maybe the year after, however this is because of monetary considerations, on the field performance does not rate a continuation. I had hope that he would get us back to competitive. I am no longer thinking that. Last year was a disappointment and this year is an unmitigated disaster. Or for the covid apologists a mitigated disaster.
That's a fair take, for sure. I remember how frustrated I was at the end of P's tenure (which, holy cow, was that not bad comparatively) and dealt with the GRob experiment (I had literal anger directly at him for making me lose 3 hours a week to watch those games)… the only thing I'd say is the "because of monetary considerations" is just an enormous piece of this, right? And, it's always a piece of it.

It hits us with the buyout and it hits us with the new hire.

Dino got us to the first ten win season since Freeney. We were one win away from a bowl game last year. I think he deserves a bit more time.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Again, that's not my POV, but I get it, for sure. Lot of issues, no doubt.

But who do we get? If someone can give me a legitimate pool of candidates' names, happy to say if I feel one is better than Dino. I just don't think it's realistic.
The issue with Dino is that he has yet to prove he can gather enough talent to have a competent O. There are other HCs who have been at their current schools 5+ years that can prove it. Dino has proven three times now that he is pretty darn good at coaching other guy's players. But we are now well past that point. How does he fix the O mess that is the last 22 games? Can he?
 

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