Just because we stink at throwing doesn't mean we should throw backward
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Chip
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upperdeck said:
I haven't watched that game yet, but are you saying they attempted 45 bubble screens or completed 33 bubble screens. QB was 44-60. Either way I think I gotta see this. Thankfully ESPN3 archives the games.
SUFaninNJ
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Agreed. It cost us the Northwestern game when Jerome just watched it bounce before it was returned for a TD.
Yea because that is what cost us the game.
TheCusian
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This meme has gained a little too much steam. Here's how I see it:
1. As another poster mentioned - we didn't throw more than two the entire second half and OT. Why?
2. We throw bubbles when the CB's play off the line by 5 yards plus. In the second half Nova was pressing more and McDonald said Wilson is a pretty good mid-deep ball guy.
3. Why throw the bubble when they are off the line? I think it's seen (rightly or wrongly) as free yardage. This game was not good that way - but BC and Minny games last year we took 3-6 yards on those attempts with a much higher completion rate.
4. I also think McDonald wants press coverage. It makes running easier (esp from the QB position) - and you hypothetically should be able to get your large receivers the ball and have them make the play. I say hypothetically since in the Nova game Ishmael had one catch, West had a couple - but mostly it was West drawing PI calls.
I don't think it's bubble or bust. I think it's situational and serves a purpose.
Now - the key with it and any play is execution. And we looked really bad about half the time (Hunt and Wilson)...
1. As another poster mentioned - we didn't throw more than two the entire second half and OT. Why?
2. We throw bubbles when the CB's play off the line by 5 yards plus. In the second half Nova was pressing more and McDonald said Wilson is a pretty good mid-deep ball guy.
3. Why throw the bubble when they are off the line? I think it's seen (rightly or wrongly) as free yardage. This game was not good that way - but BC and Minny games last year we took 3-6 yards on those attempts with a much higher completion rate.
4. I also think McDonald wants press coverage. It makes running easier (esp from the QB position) - and you hypothetically should be able to get your large receivers the ball and have them make the play. I say hypothetically since in the Nova game Ishmael had one catch, West had a couple - but mostly it was West drawing PI calls.
I don't think it's bubble or bust. I think it's situational and serves a purpose.
Now - the key with it and any play is execution. And we looked really bad about half the time (Hunt and Wilson)...
anomander
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Looks like this twitter exchange may shed some light on the highly talked about "bubble screen"
Ariana @Dylan_Haze5 5h
@CoachGMcDonald Enough with the bubble screens man, their just not ganna work against some of these ACC teams open up your playbook!!
George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 the bubble is an extension of our run game not a pass. Thanks for the support! Go orange. #Knowledgeispower
Ariana @Dylan_Haze5 3h
@CoachGMcDonald hey no disrespect at all, I'm a huge syracuse fan I just think we should open our playbook more
George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 thanks for the support. Can't wait to see you at the Maryland game!!- @CoachGMcDonald 5th year having season tickets cuz that was prob sarcasm
- George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 nope I love the passion of the fans we need a full house for Maryland!! Thanks!
TheCusian
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anomander said:Looks like this twitter exchange may shed some light on the highly talked about "bubble screen" [*]
Kind of what I was saying above. 3-5 yards is what they are hoping for (and a chance to break one of course).
AZOrange
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Coaches should not be on twitter.
SWC75
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The bubble screen was an extension of the other team's defense Friday night, not our running game.
Edit: Actually, it was an extension of our running game, as both stunk.
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kcsu
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Football facts for our OC
1: To score a touchdown you have to go vertical the goal line is actually in front of you not behind you or to either side.
2: behind the line is a lateral not a pass and a lateral is a live ball. I would venture a guess that 15 yard laterals deep in your own territory are not a high percentage play.
3: Read 1 and than realize that the lines on the side of the field are not the goal line they are out of bounds
1: To score a touchdown you have to go vertical the goal line is actually in front of you not behind you or to either side.
2: behind the line is a lateral not a pass and a lateral is a live ball. I would venture a guess that 15 yard laterals deep in your own territory are not a high percentage play.
3: Read 1 and than realize that the lines on the side of the field are not the goal line they are out of bounds
007
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If you are going to try to make fun of GM, you need to at least understand that it is a pass, and not a lateral, behind the line of scrimmage as long as the ball is moving forward from the point of release.
You are not alone in this either, but there is also a fundamental misunderstanding of the bubble screen in the spread O. There is almost always a zone read option (inside running play) depending on how the D is aligned or adjusts to the formation. Pre-snap, the QB is reading the defense to determine the number in the box, among a couple of other things. The intent is to force the D to make a decision on what to defend, how many to keep in the box, what will or wont work from a blitz package, and so on.
The bubble is not run as a singluar play in isolation in the spread. It is part of an overall philosophy of how to make a defense react and how to try to take advantage of that. Lots of teams run the bubble so that they can create inside zone read running opportunities.
Millhouse
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Looks like this twitter exchange may shed some light on the highly talked about "bubble screen"
@CoachGMcDonald Enough with the bubble screens man, their just not ganna work against some of these ACC teams open up your playbook!!
George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 the bubble is an extension of our run game not a pass. Thanks for the support! Go orange. #Knowledgeispower
@CoachGMcDonald hey no disrespect at all, I'm a huge syracuse fan I just think we should open our playbook more
George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 thanks for the support. Can't wait to see you at the Maryland game!!- @CoachGMcDonald 5th year having season tickets cuz that was prob sarcasm
- George McDonald @CoachGMcDonald 3h
@Dylan_Haze5 nope I love the passion of the fans we need a full house for Maryland!! Thanks!
do we want to extend our running game with high risk handoffs to tight ends? i don't.
bubble screens are not extensions of the run game. they should be used only to punish teams for cheating. if you're running bubble screens that aren't working, you're thinking they're more significant than they are. if they're not cheating, then you don't throw it, and that's ok.
i think our problem is that we see them as a way for the QB to complete any pass (despite what mcdonald says on twitter). as if that's the objective.
this isn't just the villanova game , i'm fine with forgetting that game ever happened
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Millhouse
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gerg is on friendster
SWC75
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We set up neither. We didn't get anything out of the running game other than Gulley's 65 yard score and we didn't get anything out of the bubble screens other than Lewis gaining 11 yards for one first down. If the defense couldn't cover both then we wouldn't be so outnumbered on the flank. And any sideways pass is an extremely high-risk play. Broyld nearly pulled a Jerome Smith.
cuseincincy
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Here's the deal on the "bubble screen". Coach Mac is correct that it is an extension of the running game, not the passing game. The main reason is that unlike actual pass plays the offensive linemen are allowed to block down field as long as the ball is caught behind the line of scrimmage. You will very very rarely see a QB pull back a "bubble screen" and look down field because by that time his linemen are already down field and that will be a penalty. The purpose is to get the ball to play makers in space with at least one blocker. If the "play maker" can make one guy miss (or get a good block) it can go for a long gain (as other schools exhibit).
KevMonstah
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"If the "play maker" can make one guy miss (or get a good block) it can go for a long gain (as other schools exhibit)."
Would this be like the WR screen that got popular after FSU or Miami would snap the ball, their O-line would let the DLs run right by, the QB would hit the WR on a crossing route, and he'd go faaaaaaar? Also described as, "a play SU tried to copy, but never could pull it off"? I don't mind if they do it once in awhile, but as an offense, I don't think they have the talent to go "bubble screen left", "bubble screen right" as their first two plays in a series.
I was more annoyed with the continued attempts at running with a faster pace. I will suspend judgement on that with Hunt, if the offense was trying to be vanilla and win Friday, and hope to see a better gameplan vs CMU; I do not feel that that particular style of offense works with Wilson as QB. I felt during the game they should've taken a little more time setting the play, making sure everyone knew what they were doing, and maybe looked to use his skillset in a different manner. There's no point to rushing an offense with the backup QB who wasn't ready for the gameplan. I'm not certain that rushing the Orange attack and leading to stats like "time of possession - SU (4:03), Villanova (14:51)" is going to be a smart idea against more capable teams. SU is not a good enough offense where they can afford to waste possessions, especially when the D is still unsettled.
Kev
Would this be like the WR screen that got popular after FSU or Miami would snap the ball, their O-line would let the DLs run right by, the QB would hit the WR on a crossing route, and he'd go faaaaaaar? Also described as, "a play SU tried to copy, but never could pull it off"? I don't mind if they do it once in awhile, but as an offense, I don't think they have the talent to go "bubble screen left", "bubble screen right" as their first two plays in a series.
I was more annoyed with the continued attempts at running with a faster pace. I will suspend judgement on that with Hunt, if the offense was trying to be vanilla and win Friday, and hope to see a better gameplan vs CMU; I do not feel that that particular style of offense works with Wilson as QB. I felt during the game they should've taken a little more time setting the play, making sure everyone knew what they were doing, and maybe looked to use his skillset in a different manner. There's no point to rushing an offense with the backup QB who wasn't ready for the gameplan. I'm not certain that rushing the Orange attack and leading to stats like "time of possession - SU (4:03), Villanova (14:51)" is going to be a smart idea against more capable teams. SU is not a good enough offense where they can afford to waste possessions, especially when the D is still unsettled.
Kev
cuseincincy
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Similar but different as the linemen will (should) actually engage linebackers down field on the bubble screen. And as far as QB is concerned I'm not certain either Hunt or Wilson are dual threat QB's.
