Kadary Richmond had a helluva game tonight ...

[orangecuse]

Let's end this Bernie digression with the facts:

1) Bernie was never charged or tried for anything,

2) Bernie was never convicted of anything.

3) Bernie was fired because Nancy Cantor wanted to put an end to the story that was started by two people with no credibility.

As the song goes...'two out of three ain't bad.'

With all due respect, #3, the part where you insert, "started by two people with no credibility" is clearly an opinion, specifically the "no" disclaimer.

 

[RF2044]

As the song goes...'two out of three ain't bad.'

With all due respect, #3, the part where you insert, "started by two people with no credibility" is clearly an opinion, specifically the "no" view.

Is it, though?

The FBI looked into it [after the story blew up] and declined to bring charges against Bernie. This despite the seriousness of the charges, the alleged evidence, the stories from the two people, etc.

Seems pretty clear cut that there wasn't sufficient basis to initiate criminal proceedings.

 

[Scooch]

I don't know, firing a long-time employee of the university, who apparently did nothing wrong, merely to end some bad press, seems like a sh!itty thing to do.

It's almost hard to believe that's actually the full truth.

Shrug.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I don't know, firing a long-time employee of the university, who apparently did nothing wrong, merely to end some bad press, seems like a sh!itty thing to do.

It's almost hard to believe that's actually the full truth.

Shrug.

Yes, it is strange that after “total exoneration,” nobody (e.g., his buddy, former players) spoke-out for him. There is more to this story than the three facts mentioned above. It seems like we will never know the truth.

 

[orangecuse]

Is it, though?

The FBI looked into it [after the story blew up] and declined to bring charges against Bernie. This despite the seriousness of the charges, the alleged evidence, the stories from the two people, etc.

Seems pretty clear cut that there wasn't sufficient basis to initiate criminal proceedings.

"No" is an absolute in the context alleged.

Being charged, tried and convicted is objective, therefore tangible, or factual that none of those occurred in Bernie's case.

The FBI standard, et al you're alluding to relative to the case is not the same as alleging one has "no" credibility. And, since the FBI couldn't meet the standard, (insufficient proof, evidence, etc.) decided not to initiate any criminal proceedings...agree on that being clear. Similar or along the lines of 'not guilty' not being the same as 'innocent.'

 

[donniesyracuse]

Bernie wasn't fired for "being gay".

Why wasn’t he rehired?

 

[Scooch]

Yes, it is strange that after “total exoneration,” nobody (e.g., his buddy, former players) spoke-out for him. There is more to this story than the three facts mentioned above. It seems like we will never know the truth.

We won't. And that seems to be Fine's choice. There was a LOT of strange sh1!t that went on in the program for decades. But that's water under the bridge.

 

[RF2044]

"No" is an absolute in the context alleged.

Being charged, tried and convicted is objective, therefore tangible, or factual that none of those occurred in Bernie's case.

The FBI standard, et al you're alluding to relative to the case is not the same as alleging one has "no" credibility. And, since the FBI couldn't meet the standard, (insufficient proof, evidence, etc.) decided not to initiate any criminal proceedings...agree on that being clear. Similar or along the lines of 'not guilty' not being the same as 'innocent.'

None of which changes that the FBI didn't believe that there was sufficient proof nor accuser credibility to pursue the matter.

Which is why they didn't. These were serious allegations, amongst the most serious that law enforcement deals with. If there had been any basis to prosecute, the would have.

There wasn't. Why do you think that was?

 

[DoctahLexus]

I don't know, firing a long-time employee of the university, who apparently did nothing wrong, merely to end some bad press, seems like a sh!itty thing to do.

It's almost hard to believe that's actually the full truth.

Shrug.

Not hard to believe when it was at almost the exact same time as Sandusky/Paterno

 

[orangecuse]

None of which changes that the FBI didn't believe that there was sufficient proof nor accuser credibility to pursue the matter.

Which is why they didn't. These were serious allegations, amongst the most serious that law enforcement deals with. If there had been any basis to prosecute, the would have.

There wasn't. Why do you think that was?

As I mentioned, after the FBI conducted their investigation into the allegations, they concluded that there was insufficient evidence to meet the standard to pursue criminal charges, etc. It's not the same as "no" credibility.

 

[RF2044]

As I mentioned, after the FBI conducted their investigation into the allegations, they concluded that there was insufficient evidence to met the standard to pursue criminal charges, etc. It's not the same as "no" credibility.

The only reason ESPN ran the story, was because the first accuser's brother indicated that he saw stuff, too. Now, there was more than one.

But neither one of them had a shred of evidence beyond their stories initially corroborating [and the second brother subsequently walked back his initial story].

All of which is indicative of them not having credibility.

That was supported by the FBI looking into the salacious matter than ESPN ran as a hatchet piece, and electing to pocket veto because nothing substantiated their claims. Splitting hairs about what the word "no" means doesn't change that.

The two accusers had no credibility, not just because their motivation was questionable but also because they had nothing to back up their claims. And law enforcement agreed -- the accusations weren't credible.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Was the authenticity of the “Laurie Fine tape” ever questioned? It was not direct evidence of a crime, but it seemed to suggest more than Bernie just being gay.

 

[RF2044]

You've shifted the argument from two accusers having "no" credibility from the two professionals that exposed the story. Not the same.

Okay, this is pointless.

You are splitting hairs about the absolutism of the word "no."

Ultimately, Bernie wasn't charged by any law enforcement agency. Because the accusations couldn't be substantiated. CTO wasn't wrong, and your legal distinction isn't necessarily wrong either.

Really not interested in "defending" Bernie Fine, 12 years after this awful situation happened, Orangecuse!

 

[orangecuse]

Okay, this is pointless.

You are splitting hairs about the absolutism of the word "no."

Ultimately, Bernie wasn't charged by any law enforcement agency. Because the accusations couldn't be substantiated. CTO wasn't wrong, and your legal distinction isn't necessarily wrong either.

Fair enough.

 

[cuseincincy]

Watching this game and the ACC championship made me sick to my stomach. We are soooooo far from this level of physicality and play it’s disgusting. We might be at the Gerg Robinson point honestly.

I really hope you didn't watch any of the SEC tournament then. It may have sent you to the hospital.

 

[Nicknack]

None of which changes that the FBI didn't believe that there was sufficient proof nor accuser credibility to pursue the matter.

Which is why they didn't. These were serious allegations, amongst the most serious that law enforcement deals with. If there had been any basis to prosecute, the would have.

There wasn't. Why do you think that was?

Exactly. One of the reasons that the FBI didn't move forward was because people who were alleging things lied over and over and over about things. There was no way they could trust information they were getting.

Here is a read if anyone wants to go back in time...

Feds drop Bernie Fine abuse case

Federal authorities have dropped their investigation into one of the sexual abuse claims that cost a Syracuse University assistant basketball coach his job, threw a top-ranked team into turmoil and threatened the career of Hall of Fame coach Jim Boeheim.

www.espn.com

 

[djcon57]

Was the authenticity of the “Laurie Fine tape” ever questioned? It was not direct evidence of a crime, but it seemed to suggest more than Bernie just being gay.

They suggested it was cut up or something. Still...the tone of what she was saying...I don't know. All seems unsavory to me. Glad he's gone.

 

[MSOrange]

Checking in to read some thoughts on Kadary....

 

[Syracusian]

I haven't been reading the forums or watching any college basketball lately, but I did read this thread. Lots of highlights

-I loved Kadary for the time we had him and thought it was night and day difference when he was on the court. Unfortunate that he ended up going for whatever the real reasons are

-Pitino - very sensitive topic, but I've always liked watching Pitino teams. Kentucky teams were powerhouses. We were down by 2 late in the second half in the 1996 championship. Louisville teams played hard. We beat Louisville at Louisville in 2013 and we were up by 16 in the second half of the big east championship if that means anything.

-Bernie: As I think Bees mentioned, there's a lot of shame involved. Just an unfortunate and messy situation by all parts

-Jay Wright: Seems logical to bring this back up

 

[elimunelson]

Let's end this Bernie digression with the facts:

1) Bernie was never charged or tried for anything,

2) Bernie was never convicted of anything.

3) Bernie was fired because Nancy Cantor wanted to put an end to the story that was started by two people with no credibility.

Joyce as usual thanks for this. But that begs 4-10 as well which is the reason for the Bernie redux to begin with.

Prob goes back to the fact that Syracuse had a feckless media machine that would look into the story more.

I guess the bottom line q is how does Bernie make a living 13 years later or so if he wasn’t paid anything and was fired in a very embarrassing way?

 

[elimunelson]

We won't. And that seems to be Fine's choice. There was a LOT of strange sh1!t that went on in the program for decades. But that's water under the bridge.

30
For
30

Syracuse: Strange Sh1!T directed by M Night Shamalan

 

[MSOrange]

Joyce as usual thanks for this. But that begs 4-10 as well which is the reason for the Bernie redux to begin with.

Prob goes back to the fact that Syracuse had a feckless media machine that would look into the story more.

I guess the bottom line q is how does Bernie make a living 13 years later or so if he wasn’t paid anything and was fired in a very embarrassing way?

I have absolutely no inside scoop but to your last point. He was 65 when he was let go. Could have been pretty well set financially for retirement when he was let go.

 

[orangecuse]

I have absolutely no inside scoop but to your last point. He was 65 when he was let go. Could have been pretty well set financially for retirement when he was let go.

Yeah. I also imagine it was certainly possible (after the dust settled and the FBI didn't bring any formal charges, etc.) that a hush/non-disclosure type settlement occurred as well to avoid any additional bad PR, exposure, etc. the university may have had.

 

[cto]

I don't know, firing a long-time employee of the university, who apparently did nothing wrong, merely to end some bad press, seems like a sh!itty thing to do.

It's almost hard to believe that's actually the full truth.

Shrug.

You did not know Nancy Cantor. Remember, she fired Paul Pasqualoni at halftime of that Orlando bowl game 20 years ago because she did not like the way the team was playing.

 

[ar inj]

You did not know Nancy Cantor. Remember, she fired Paul Pasqualoni in the middle of that Orlando bowl game 20 years ago.

Ah, the Wee One. She was a piece of work. I had the pleasure of her sitting in my row for basketball games.