Class of 2015 Killing It

[Zins30]

If you look at the previous seven years it is really hard to believe that we are a week away from July and we already have verbals from 15 guys. The closest we came before was the 11 players who verballed before July 1 in the Class of 2012. Otherwise you are looking at:

Class of 2014 - 7
Class of 2013 - 5
Class of 2011 - 8
Class of 2010 - 5
Class of 2009 - 0
Class of 2008 - 5

Now it's true many of our guys haven't been rewarded by a bunch of stars at this stage, but again if you look at the recent past we should be looking at reevaluations later this summer and fall after camps, new offers and senior year play enlarge the "data base" on which the so-called experts base their judgments. My guess is that many of the guys who are currently NR or 2 stars will move up and one or two 3-star kids will be awarded a 4th star by December. Then again, if that doesn't happen I still will put my faith in this coaching staff to know their business better that a bunch of internet "experts."

So, how many total guys (best guess) are they taking in 2015?? With so many spots locked up early, is there concern that we limit the spots left for those waiting a bit on the process since we're still early on?

 

[SUFan44]

Exaggeration.

You can be good to very good without 4-5 star players but you can't be great. Regardless of what you think of the rating services or how kids are rated, in the end the great teams have many 4-5 star players. Some do fail just like some 2 stars become studs. But the math proves you wrong. We can stay a school of 2-3 star kids and HCSS will do very well with them. But we'll remain a 7 win type program, maybe 8 at times. If you want a consistent 9+ win great program, we will need to eventually bringing those types players in.

Btw, over the last 10 years, compare our record with ND, USC and Texas.

I disagree. You can be an 8-10 win team consistently, and occasionally have a "great" team, without 4-5 star guys littering a roster. Need an effective QB and a few others - and with winning comes a few - but you don't positively need to get 7-10 each year at every position.

Look at the '98 McNabb year - we had some really good players at WR and RB, but outside of McNabb, Konrad, Mungro (who didn't really play much) and maybe Spotwood (who was hurt) who was a 4/5 star guy that was an impact guy? Kevin Johnson was a QB convert, Dee Brown the same, Kyle McIntosh was an effective college player, Darryl Daniel was a 2-star guy, Mo Jackson and Jeff Lowe were 5-7 at best, and the o-line was comprised of mostly 2-3 star guys (Kiernan may have been the exception, he was highly thought of out of CT). The defense, outside of Bullock was too. That year we nearly beat the eventual national champs and crushed the defending champs on the road in front of 100K+. We had, at MOST, 5 4/5 star guys that actually made a difference on that team.

I know your argument will be "McNabb was a once in a lifetime player", and that we never won 10 games with him - and you'd be correct - but if we had even a serviceable QB to replace him we could have kept winning 8-10 games each year even after he left - I firmly believe that. And look at the one outlier when we did get serviceable play at QB - 10-3 with Freeney - a 2-3 star guy.

Look at Boise State. If you have a plan and know what you're looking for - and have assistant coaches who are on the same page and can evaluate talent quickly and effectively - you can absolutely be an 8-10 win team without getting the cream of the crop every single year. You need impact players, but they don't need to be 4-5 star guys and don't need to be impact right from the jump.

If Eduoard can pan out in the next couple years, and Hunt keeps progressing, we'll win 8-10 consistently over next 5 years. Book it.

 

[PhatOrange]

We’ll get more 4 star kids when either a Syracuse shill is involved in the evaluations or we get 1,000 paying subscribers back over to rvls.

 

[PhatOrange]

Compare this year to date vs last year

Power 5 offers as reported by the 3 recruiting services:

2015

Perkins – 0
Fredericks – 0
Strickland – 6
Guidice – 0
Clausman – 0
Conway – 2
Levine – 0
Robinson – 2
Spence – 1
Byrne – 0
Adams – 1
Duerig – 0
Cullen – 0
Ginnetti – 2
Blair – 3

Total: 17

2014
Slayton – 11
Ishmael – 11
Enoicy – 10
Ward - 10
Edouard – 9
KJ Williams – 8
Dowels – 5
Cordy – 4
Hudson – 4
Custis – 3
Long – 2
Franklin – 2
Thomas – 2
Roberts – 1
Prator – 1
Moskal – 1
Samuels – 1
Bennett – 1
Howard – 0
Williams – 0
Dawson – 0
Phillips – 0
Harvey – 0

Total = 86

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Compare this year to date vs last year

Power 5 offers as reported by the 3 recruiting services:

2015

Perkins – 0
Fredericks – 0
Strickland – 6
Guidice – 0
Clausman – 0
Conway – 2
Levine – 0
Robinson – 2
Spence – 1
Byrne – 0
Adams – 1
Duerig – 0
Cullen – 0
Ginnetti – 2
Blair – 3

Total: 17

2014
Slayton – 11
Ishmael – 11
Enoicy – 10
Ward - 10
Edouard – 9
KJ Williams – 8
Dowels – 5
Cordy – 4
Hudson – 4
Custis – 3
Long – 2
Franklin – 2
Thomas – 2
Roberts – 1
Prator – 1
Moskal – 1
Samuels – 1
Bennett – 1
Howard – 0
Williams – 0
Dawson – 0
Phillips – 0
Harvey – 0

Total = 86

Yes, but I'm assuming 2014 = 86 is as of signing day. So, the 2015 number could increase dramatically by February, no?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Yes, but I'm assuming 2014 = 86 is as of signing day. So, the 2015 number could increase dramatically by February, no?

Never mind - I should read more closely...

In which case, it is a bit concerning.

 

[Sudano]

If you look at the previous seven years it is really hard to believe that we are a week away from July and we already have verbals from 15 guys. The closest we came before was the 11 players who verballed before July 1 in the Class of 2012. Otherwise you are looking at:

Class of 2014 - 7
Class of 2013 - 5
Class of 2011 - 8
Class of 2010 - 5
Class of 2009 - 0
Class of 2008 - 5

Now it's true many of our guys haven't been rewarded by a bunch of stars at this stage, but again if you look at the recent past we should be looking at reevaluations later this summer and fall after camps, new offers and senior year play enlarge the "data base" on which the so-called experts base their judgments. My guess is that many of the guys who are currently NR or 2 stars will move up and one or two 3-star kids will be awarded a 4th star by December. Then again, if that doesn't happen I still will put my faith in this coaching staff to know their business better that a bunch of internet "experts."

I don't think we need to concentrate on stars just the level of offers from other top schools we are trying to be better than. Internet experts who give stars are just reflective of what the professional talents evaluators judge to be quality based upon scholarship offers. Of course some of these players will get offers from good colleges as they move down their recruiting boards. Many won't. I just don't buy that our staff has a miracle eye that's better than 40 other schools we are competing against for recruits. I'm not blinded by the fact that if they verbal to us they automatically are a great recruit particularly from a program that is about 1-2 games above .500. I want to be better than that.

 

[DownTheField]

We seem to be doing better than last year, right?

Compare this year to date vs last year

Power 5 offers as reported by the 3 recruiting services:

2015

Perkins – 0
Fredericks – 0
Strickland – 6
Guidice – 0
Clausman – 0
Conway – 2
Levine – 0
Robinson – 2
Spence – 1
Byrne – 0
Adams – 1
Duerig – 0
Cullen – 0
Ginnetti – 2
Blair – 3

Total: 17

2014
Slayton – 11
Ishmael – 11
Enoicy – 10
Ward - 10
Edouard – 9
KJ Williams – 8
Dowels – 5
Cordy – 4
Hudson – 4
Custis – 3
Long – 2
Franklin – 2
Thomas – 2
Roberts – 1
Prator – 1
Moskal – 1
Samuels – 1
Bennett – 1
Howard – 0
Williams – 0
Dawson – 0
Phillips – 0
Harvey – 0

Total = 86

 

[orangeinjersey]

We seem to be doing better than last year, right?

Quite the contrary. If OP is correct in saying, "at the same point in time" meaning June 24 2013 and June 24, 2014, the 2013 (2014 recruiting class) commits had 86 P5 offers vs the 2014 (2015 recruiting class i.e this years) commits only having 17.

My one question, did we really have 23 verbals at this point last year? Theres no way thats right. Some of those guys verbaled in the winter at which point this comparison is invalid becuase you have to figure our guys will get more offers as the summer ends leading into winter.

 

[rrlbees]

We’ll get more 4 star kids when either a Syracuse shill is involved in the evaluations or we get 1,000 paying subscribers back over to rvls.

I've asked this at least 3 times before but have never gotten a reply. As to the subscriber comment, how does that square with the schools who aren't affiliated with either site or just one of the sites?

 

[DownTheField]

Quite the contrary. If OP is correct in saying, "at the same point in time" meaning June 24 2013 and June 24, 2014, the 2013 (2014 recruiting class) commits had 86 P5 offers vs the 2014 (2015 recruiting class i.e this years) commits only having 17.

My one question, did we really have 23 verbals at this point last year? Theres no way thats right. Some of those guys verbaled in the winter at which point this comparison is invalid becuase you have to figure our guys will get more offers as the summer ends leading into winter.

To date last year we had:

Naesean Howard- 0
A.J. Long- 2
Zaire Franklin- 2
Colton Moskal- 1
Rodney Williams- 0
Parris Bennett- 1

 

[Antiprodigy]

You can be concerned about anything you want. Heck, you can hate it all. But the question, if you feel that way, is why do you care at all about the team?

If you do, you support the school, the coaches the school has hired, and the players that the coaches bring in. You either have faith in the people and their process, or you are just a glass half empty kind of person.

Noone here realistically knows how these kids will turn out. And there is no way that the offers these kids will get, will equal the offers last years recruits got. These commits, primarily occurred during a different time frame in the recruiting process than last years recruits. Later means more offers, typically. Yes, some of these kids will get more offers as a result of camps or their senior season, but the odds are high that these kids will not receive as many offers from P5 schools due to being committed to SU already. And that is ok. It doesn't really matter how many offers a player gets, it only matter how good they become, and I firmly believe that SS and staff have convinced most of these kids that SU is the best place for them to be.

Personally, I feel very comfortable that SS and Mac have a very good understanding of what kind of talent is necessary for SU to be successful. And, I feel very comfortable that if SS is willing to take a commitment from a kid this early in the process, that kid must definitely have the capabilities of showing the talent necessary to make a successful football team for SU.

I understand that SS does not have a long track record as HCSS, but there really is no point in being such a negative nelly on here. People want to feel good about the direction of the program, and until or unless HCSS proves that he is not capable of taking the team to that level, there really is no benefit to going on about how bad the commits are.

but on the other hand, b*tchers gonna b*tch.

 

[SUFan44]

To date last year we had:

Naesean Howard- 0
A.J. Long- 2
Zaire Franklin- 2
Colton Moskal- 1
Rodney Williams- 0
Parris Bennett- 1

Franklin ended up with 8 offers (including Arizona, Pitt, UConn), Moskal had 10 (Minnesota, Cincinnati), Bennett with 7, Long had 11.

Not worried one bit - and think a couple of these kids (Robinson, Spence, Levine) will have 10-15 by the time all is said and done.

 

[orangeinjersey]

To date last year we had:

Naesean Howard- 0
A.J. Long- 2
Zaire Franklin- 2
Colton Moskal- 1
Rodney Williams- 0
Parris Bennett- 1

Thats more like it

2013: 6 Commits/6 P5 offers
2014: 17 commits/ 17 P5 offers

Also recall that of the 17, 2 are silent that we do not know about and could have multiple P5 offers that are not accounted for here.

 

[PhatOrange]

Quite the contrary. If OP is correct in saying, "at the same point in time" meaning June 24 2013 and June 24, 2014, the 2013 (2014 recruiting class) commits had 86 P5 offers vs the 2014 (2015 recruiting class i.e this years) commits only having 17.

My one question, did we really have 23 verbals at this point last year? Theres no way thats right. Some of those guys verbaled in the winter at which point this comparison is invalid becuase you have to figure our guys will get more offers as the summer ends leading into winter.

No my list was complete class last year. At this time last year we had about 5 commits and they had 5 P5 offers btw them. The kids with all the offers last year came after September.

 

[PhatOrange]

I've asked this at least 3 times before but have never gotten a reply. As to the subscriber comment, how does that square with the schools who aren't affiliated with either site or just one of the sites?

Like what schools? Just in the Northeast you’re talking Penn State and Rutgers both schools with high sub counts and notoriously overrated kids.


Maryland’s Locksley with the outrageous bonus he receives based on where they finish in rvls recruiting rankings. Can’t tell me those ratings are legit.


There are hundreds of 3 star kids at rvls but they fudge their rankings with the goofy numeric rating they assign.


And the other area that brings a good laugh is within the state ratings; particularly the Northeast.

 

[Brian Orange]

Great job by Shafer and Co. I know I am beating a dead horse here but it's fun to see what college coaches can do out on the trail. Young, energetic guys like Acosta, Adam, these guys relate to these kids. I am sure guys like Donnie Henderson and Rob Moore were good coaches but you can't tell me having these young guns on the road isn't more helpful than being the DB's coach for the Jets back in the day.

 

[019Jules]

Quite the contrary. If OP is correct in saying, "at the same point in time" meaning June 24 2013 and June 24, 2014, the 2013 (2014 recruiting class) commits had 86 P5 offers vs the 2014 (2015 recruiting class i.e this years) commits only having 17.

My one question, did we really have 23 verbals at this point last year? Theres no way thats right. Some of those guys verbaled in the winter at which point this comparison is invalid becuase you have to figure our guys will get more offers as the summer ends leading into winter.

I don't see any reference to "the same time last year." Phat's 86 offers seems to be the total for the entire class that signed in February (or enrolled in Jan.) We have more verbal commitments this year than we had at this time last year. At this point, the offers from power conferences aren't as impressive. But a lot of last years' came late.

 

[rrlbees]

Like what schools? Just in the Northeast you’re talking Penn State and Rutgers both schools with high sub counts and notoriously overrated kids. Maryland’s Locksley with the outrageous bonus he receives based on where they finish in rvls recruiting rankings. Can’t tell me those ratings are legit. There are hundreds of 3 star kids at rvls but they fudge their rankings with the goofy numeric rating they assign. And the other area that brings a good laugh is within the state ratings; particularly the Northeast.

I'm pretty sure I posted a list before and not going to research it again. I know VT has zilch with any site. There are several schools with high sub numbers for 1 site but not the other. Yet the other site with the small sub base treats them fairly.

You think every team or even top teams have large sub numbers at each site?

 

[rrlbees]

You can be concerned about anything you want. Heck, you can hate it all. But the question, if you feel that way, is why do you care at all about the team

Dislike.

 

[dasher]

You can be concerned about anything you want. Heck, you can hate it all. But the question, if you feel that way, is why do you care at all about the team?

If you do, you support the school, the coaches the school has hired, and the players that the coaches bring in. You either have faith in the people and their process, or you are just a glass half empty kind of person.

Noone here realistically knows how these kids will turn out. And there is no way that the offers these kids will get, will equal the offers last years recruits got. These commits, primarily occurred during a different time frame in the recruiting process than last years recruits. Later means more offers, typically. Yes, some of these kids will get more offers as a result of camps or their senior season, but the odds are high that these kids will not receive as many offers from P5 schools due to being committed to SU already. And that is ok. It doesn't really matter how many offers a player gets, it only matter how good they become, and I firmly believe that SS and staff have convinced most of these kids that SU is the best place for them to be.

Personally, I feel very comfortable that SS and Mac have a very good understanding of what kind of talent is necessary for SU to be successful. And, I feel very comfortable that if SS is willing to take a commitment from a kid this early in the process, that kid must definitely have the capabilities of showing the talent necessary to make a successful football team for SU.

I understand that SS does not have a long track record as HCSS, but there really is no point in being such a negative nelly on here. People want to feel good about the direction of the program, and until or unless HCSS proves that he is not capable of taking the team to that level, there really is no benefit to going on about how bad the commits are.

but on the other hand, b*tchers gonna b*tch.

that is wrong on so many levels. It's because we love the team that some of us have dared asked how good this class really is. Our coaches don't know more than other teams coaches. they just don't. And it concerns me that we are getting kids other schools haven't offered. Maybe we are ahead of the curve. And we do know what we are looking for min a player. But to question a fan's loyalty because they wonder how good this class is when the rating services don't view it that kindly is childish

 

[cuseinchina]

You can be concerned about anything you want. Heck, you can hate it all. But the question, if you feel that way, is why do you care at all about the team?

If you do, you support the school, the coaches the school has hired, and the players that the coaches bring in. You either have faith in the people and their process, or you are just a glass half empty kind of person.

Noone here realistically knows how these kids will turn out. And there is no way that the offers these kids will get, will equal the offers last years recruits got. These commits, primarily occurred during a different time frame in the recruiting process than last years recruits. Later means more offers, typically. Yes, some of these kids will get more offers as a result of camps or their senior season, but the odds are high that these kids will not receive as many offers from P5 schools due to being committed to SU already. And that is ok. It doesn't really matter how many offers a player gets, it only matter how good they become, and I firmly believe that SS and staff have convinced most of these kids that SU is the best place for them to be.

Personally, I feel very comfortable that SS and Mac have a very good understanding of what kind of talent is necessary for SU to be successful. And, I feel very comfortable that if SS is willing to take a commitment from a kid this early in the process, that kid must definitely have the capabilities of showing the talent necessary to make a successful football team for SU.

I understand that SS does not have a long track record as HCSS, but there really is no point in being such a negative nelly on here. People want to feel good about the direction of the program, and until or unless HCSS proves that he is not capable of taking the team to that level, there really is no benefit to going on about how bad the commits are.

but on the other hand, b*tchers gonna b*tch.

I think there is cause for optimism - but really we have absolutely no idea how the SS era recruits are going to pan out. So to call people out for questioning some of the 'visuals' around this process is not so cool. that's why we are on here to discuss, debate, complain, celebrate etc.

 

[cuseinchina]

Thats more like it

2013: 6 Commits/6 P5 offers
2014: 17 commits/ 17 P5 offers

Also recall that of the 17, 2 are silent that we do not know about and could have multiple P5 offers that are not accounted for here.

I wonder how valid evaluating this way will be with the kids committing this early? at the end of the day they are likely to get less total offers in the process than if they'd stayed uncommitted longer. I am sure other schools will offer our commits, but probably less than otherwise would have.

 

[TheCusian]

that is wrong on so many levels. It's because we love the team that some of us have dared asked how good this class really is. Our coaches don't know more than other teams coaches. they just don't. And it concerns me that we are getting kids other schools haven't offered. Maybe we are ahead of the curve. And we do know what we are looking for min a player. But to question a fan's loyalty because they wonder how good this class is when the rating services don't view it that kindly is childish

Re-read the whole thread... Last year at this time, 5 kids with low P5 offers - ended up picking up offers and stars through their senior season. This year 17. Some will stay low, most will rise - and a lot of it will point to the "ahead of the curve" possibility.

The conclusion is less "we should question these kids due to low rankings" and more "our staff is identifying and getting kids that they want early" ... And then wait until their senior years and final rankings/offer sheets.

 

[CaliCuse]

To date last year we had:

Naesean Howard- 0
A.J. Long- 2
Zaire Franklin- 2
Colton Moskal- 1
Rodney Williams- 0
Parris Bennett- 1

The point always is to keep improving and Shafer is doing just that consistently. The next step is quality along with quantity More 4s and at least one 5 star per class.