Kline exposes Autry's flaws

[IthacaMatt]

We might be around 16-11 if Starling and Freeman did not get hurt. Add those two guys and we would be a tourney team.

I thought this team was going to be win 24 games this year. Honest.
Of course, nothing has turned out right.
Westry didn't get healthy, let alone replace Copeland.

Bell was so bad he lost his starting job, and then finally started to make 3s again by coming off the bench, with less pressure.

Eddie with McLeod and Petar and a healthy Donnie Freeman all year should have been a pretty good big man rotation with a little bit of everything - low post scoring, a rim protector, a bouncy PF and a European big who can pass and make an occasional three.

On paper, that should have been a pretty good group - but only if all of them played. None of them are good enough by themselves. They all have shortcomings. But 10 minutes from this guy or that guy makes all of them better. Because they're not being asked to do too much.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I thought this team was going to be win 24 games this year. Honest.
Of course, nothing has turned out right.
Westry didn't get healthy, let alone replace Copeland.

Bell was so bad he lost his starting job, and then finally started to make 3s again by coming off the bench, with less pressure.

Eddie with McLeod and Petar and a healthy Donnie Freeman all year should have been a pretty good big man rotation with a little bit of everything - low post scoring, a rim protector, a bouncy PF and a European big who can pass and make an occasional three.

On paper, that should have been a pretty good group - but only if all of them played. None of them are good enough by themselves. They all have shortcomings. But 10 minutes from this guy or that guy makes all of them better. Because they're not being ask to do too much.

Same thing in the backcourt. JJ, Cuffe, Carlos, Moore, Westry - that was supposed to be the group. If they were all healthy, and they all had chances to play, we could have been better.

None of them are good enough by themselves, but all of them could have offered something. If we didn't ask guys to do too much, we might have won a few extra games.

Red froze out players this year, and let the wrong ones play too much. He seemed stubborn and didn't run his bench well. I think that has a lot to do with why those 2 young guys weren't playing. They weren't feeling it on this team, with this staff.

 

[JaySU22]

Same thing in the backcourt. JJ, Cuffe, Carlos, Moore, Westry - that was supposed to be the group. If they were all healthy, and they all had chances to play, we could have been better.

None of them are good enough by themselves, but all of them could have offered something. If we didn't ask guys to do too much, we might have won a few extra games.

Red froze out players this year, and let the wrong ones play too much. He seemed stubborn and didn't run his bench well. I think that has a lot to do with why those 2 young guys weren't playing. They weren't feeling it on this team, with this staff.

I wish Red could have figured out roles a lot earlier. Can’t be easy getting jerked around one night to the next and not knowing what to expect.

Ofc you can tweak roles over time. Like Bell coming off the bench has been pretty good at least.

 

[albanycuse]

I wish Red could have figured out roles a lot earlier. Can’t be easy getting jerked around one night to the next and not knowing what to expect.

Ofc you can tweak roles over time. Like Bell coming off the bench has been pretty good at least.

Publicly stating numerous times throughout the season that he was still trying to find the right lineup is a major red flag and sign of incompetence for your supposed leader. You should know this preseason. Time to reboot.

 

[Sherman20]

Same thing in the backcourt. JJ, Cuffe, Carlos, Moore, Westry - that was supposed to be the group. If they were all healthy, and they all had chances to play, we could have been better.

None of them are good enough by themselves, but all of them could have offered something. If we didn't ask guys to do too much, we might have won a few extra games.

Red froze out players this year, and let the wrong ones play too much. He seemed stubborn and didn't run his bench well. I think that has a lot to do with why those 2 young guys weren't playing. They weren't feeling it on this team, with this staff.

Sure, not having a healthy Westry hurt.

But the problem with your theory is that you need complete or well-rounded players who are good on both ends of the court, and none of these guys are well-rounded. They all have major holes in their games and most of them are not good defenders, save for Taylor, who is solid. Starling is a very good offensive player but he’s not a good defensive player. I blame the staff for that because there’s no reason a quick and athletic guy like JJ should be that poor at defense.

Having five so-so guards does nothing for a team, because you can only play two at a time. I’d rather have two star guards and one solid backup and then a developmental freshman like Choppa.

 

[IthacaMatt]

But the problem with your theory is that you need complete or well-rounded players who are good on both ends of the court, and none of these guys are well-rounded. They all have major holes in their games and most of them are not good defenders, save for Taylor, who is solid.

No, you've got it backwards regarding what I mean.

Autry has played limited guys like they are deserving of playing the whole game, when they're all limited, just like you said.

That's why you have to play ALL of them, but FEWER minutes. So when somebody has a bad match up and is getting abused, you try someone else who brings something different to the table.

None of them are good enough by themselves, so you play them all, and take those things they can give you.

 

[Sherman20]

No, you've got it backwards regarding what I mean.

Autry has played limited guys like they are deserving of playing the whole game, when they're all limited, just like you said.

That's why you have to play ALL of them, but FEWER minutes. So when somebody has a bad match up and is getting abused, you try someone else who brings something different to the table.

None of them are good enough by themselves, so you play them all, and take those things they can give you.

I don’t think that works, imo. If you bring in a guy like JJ, he can score and get to the basket and knock down some 3s, but he can’t defend well. So he helps you on one end, but hurts you on the other. He also isn’t great at passing and creating for others. Taylor is a better defender but he’s not that athletic and cant get to the rim or score as well as JJ so he hurts you on offense. Carlos is the only pure PG but he’s small and slower, doesn’t shoot 3s well, and is not great at defense (though he tries). Cuffe is athletic and quick and a decent defender but can’t pass, run the team and has struggled shooting 3s. He’s also not as good as JJ at getting to the rack. Choppa works hard but is a one dimensional shooter right now. Playing mediocre players fewer minutes doesn’t help, imo. Since you can only play 2 or 3 guards, whoever you have out there at any one time is going to have serious limitations in important facets of the game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

All this discussion about analytics aside, what worries me most, is that Red watched Carlos compete in practice for weeks (albeit against our horrible defensive players) and thought he was going to be solid at point.

Many of us liked what we saw in the exhibitions, but two games in we all knew we were in trouble at point.

Part of things too was the hope JJ's evolution to a 1 was going to be more apparent than it has been

 

[grepal]

Always easier to play Monday Morning QB. I really think the staff thought Lampkin was the missing piece. Bigger concern to me was and is the constant misses in this portal class and the roster construction. It just shows how unprepared they were. Other would know but does this staff work hard? Are they hardest workers in the room or are they complacent and lazy. I don’t know but I don’t get that sense of urgency.

Do you help with this? How many of the complainers are shelling out 4 figures or even 3? You want better players It is not about the coach, the facility, the education etc. All that matters is who will pay the most. It is delusional to think it is anything else. You want to bitch about the coaching, forget the talent evaluation B.S. bitcch about their fund raising chops. That is more than half the job now. If 33000 fans who could fill the dome gave 100.00 each that would be 3.3 million dollars. What kind of roster would that build? Individual stars are getting 7 figures. To really ompete with the top schools all 33000 fans would need to shell out250 to 300 each and that includes rhe kids. Let those figures sink in and if you don't already, do your part anf write a check.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Couple of points that i haven’t seen discussed as much

We were quite spoiled by the 40+ years of winning seasons. Even the best schools have a “stinker” once every 5-10 years. Not saying this negates all the bad things we are seeing, but a 14-18 season does not mean we are doomed forever. It is something that happens, and the ups/downs will likely be more volatile in the portal era.

All the complaints about NIL make it sound like a static figure. That’s a defeatist attitude. If this team and coaching start to give the fans optimism, more money will appear. In basketball, an incremental $1-2 million moves the needle.

 

[Lord Ashby]

A lot of people more or less thought Lampkin was going to be a bust in May and were shutdown for being negative. We needed a rim protector with our inability to stop any dribble penetration.

The answer to this is Miles Rubin from Loyola University Chicago.

 

[Scooch]

All this discussion about analytics aside, what worries me most, is that Red watched Carlos compete in practice for weeks (albeit against our horrible defensive players) and thought he was going to be solid at point.

Many of us liked what we saw in the exhibitions, but two games in we all knew we were in trouble at point.

Yup. We'll see what Kline can do to influence acquisition targets with Autry. Clearly, left to their own devices, the staff's player evaluation skills are lacking.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The answer to this is Miles Rubin from Loyola University Chicago.

I was hoping for Yaxel Lendeborg from UAB. But he didn’t even enter the portal.

 

[sufandu]

I thought this team was going to be win 24 games this year. Honest.
Of course, nothing has turned out right.
Westry didn't get healthy, let alone replace Copeland.

Bell was so bad he lost his starting job, and then finally started to make 3s again by coming off the bench, with less pressure.

Eddie with McLeod and Petar and a healthy Donnie Freeman all year should have been a pretty good big man rotation with a little bit of everything - low post scoring, a rim protector, a bouncy PF and a European big who can pass and make an occasional three.

On paper, that should have been a pretty good group - but only if all of them played. None of them are good enough by themselves. They all have shortcomings. But 10 minutes from this guy or that guy makes all of them better. Because they're not being asked to do too much.

It's too bad we can't substitute like hockey. Run Mcleod on to be a rim protector on defense and then Lampkin on offense.

 

[sufandu]

I was hoping for Yaxel Lendeborg from UAB. But he didn’t even enter the portal.

We needed to tamper better.

 

[Millhouse]

Back to OP - we hired Kline after most of the transfers.

I think it's very revealing how bad our head coach is at it

Boeheim knew what he was doing with transfers in for the most part

 

[shu 49]

That doesn't explain giving money to lampkin

See I think he plays hard and does good job most nights. Would I rather have christmas back there type yeah but he would be way more expensive than eddie

 

[Millhouse]

All this discussion about analytics aside, what worries me most, is that Red watched Carlos compete in practice for weeks (albeit against our horrible defensive players) and thought he was going to be solid at point.

Many of us liked what we saw in the exhibitions, but two games in we all knew we were in trouble at point.

Yeah, game two was it for me
Game thread "Carlos is not it"

Actually it was after game one

I'm nervous this is a wake me up in a year situation

How was this so obvious to everyone but autry

 

[RF2044]

I think it's very revealing how bad our head coach is at it

Boeheim knew what he was doing with transfers in for the most part

I'll take that several steps further.

Boeheim had a system [which evolved over time] that he recruited for, and landed system fits. And then, he was such a good coach, that he coached up players to not only get them to be productive, but to make several of them NBA prospects.

For the most part, JB got the most out of the majority of his players.

The new coaching staff doesn't come close to that.

 

[cusefan88]

I think it's very revealing how bad our head coach is at it

Boeheim knew what he was doing with transfers in for the most part

In a vaccum some of the guys are fine. How Red thought they would fit together on a team is shocking.

Unfortunately this off-season every transfer has to complement JJ assuming he stays because he is so deficient shooting and defending.

 

[sufandu]

I think it's very revealing how bad our head coach is at it

Boeheim knew what he was doing with transfers in for the most part

Boeheim used transfers sparingly to complement the team he built and developed through traditional recruiting. How many did he have over the course of 40 years? Would he do better than Red in this current era? Sure. Would he be good while annually building a whole team? I doubt it. At least end of career Boeheim would not have been. Maybe young, motivated, hustling JB would have been.

 

[Millhouse]

See I think he plays hard and does good job most nights. Would I rather have christmas back there type yeah but he would be way more expensive than eddie

It was mostly a joke
He's fine
Crazy to give him so much money
It's more about the thought that he was what we needed
Worried they're burying McLeod to justify it

 

[sufandu]

It was mostly a joke
He's fine
Crazy to give him so much money
It's more about the thought that he was what we needed
Worried they're burying McLeod to justify it

What's frustrating is he's half the player we need. He's good on the offensive end and terrible onnthe defensive end. If we could frankenstein him and McLeod we'd have a solid player.

 

[Cusefan0307]

In a vaccum some of the guys are fine. How Red thought they would fit together on a team is shocking.

Unfortunately this off-season every transfer has to complement JJ assuming he stays because he is so deficient shooting and defending.

I do not see how you can win with a shooting guard who has no strengths besides going to the basket right handed.

 

[Sbucketball]

All this discussion about analytics aside, what worries me most, is that Red watched Carlos compete in practice for weeks (albeit against our horrible defensive players) and thought he was going to be solid at point.

Many of us liked what we saw in the exhibitions, but two games in we all knew we were in trouble at point.

Worse than calling Carlos solid, Red apparently compared him to Tyler Ennis over the summer.